Shotgun Reloading- Crushed shells and Turkey loads

[Hunter2011]

Anyone here reload shotgun? I understand this forum is really for metallic loading but I figured I would give here a shot before I create an account on a different forum that's more geared towards scattergun reloaders.

I've been reloading metallic for awhile and I have just taken up reloading shotgun about a month ago and I have a couple questions regarding crimp/crushed shells and turkey loads. With shotgun, I realize you can't be as adventurous/dumb so I want to make sure I'm starting this venture safely.

Thanks,
Hunter

 

[5shot]

I load a bit of specialized shells...might be able to help.

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[truck driver]

Get yourself a Lyman Shot shell reloading manual. Lots of good loads and info in there.
Also check out Ballistics Products web sight for supplies since they carry everything you will need.
If your crushing shells when crimping you don't have the press set up right .
Good luck with reloading for the shot gun.

 

[Ridgerunner665]

Crushing can result from a few things... Any one or some combination of all could be the issue.

Too much powder
Too much shot
Wrong wad
Improper press setup

If you got the load from a reliable manual (I also recommend the Lyman manual).... And have followed the load exactly.... Then it is your press setup that is wrong.

Are you using the right crimp fitting, there are 2....6 fold and 8 fold?

 

[mjcmichigan]

What TD said. Set up.


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[1Shot]

What Ridgerunner said. I have been loading shotgun shells for over 30 years and learned early on that you MUST follow the load data EXACTLY as the manuals state or you will run into problems. As you stated, with metallic loading you can be adventuress but not much with shotgun.

 

[Polaris]

Shotgun loading is more of an art than metallic loading. There are a lot of shades of grey within given load recipes. This is complicated greatly by manufacturers changing the capacities of their hulls on a regular basis to fit large lots of components purchased in bulk.

Getting a "perfect" crimp is a well orchestrated dance between... compatible volumes of hull and components, correct pliability and memory of the hull, wad pressure, crimp depth, and, taper. All of these specs and settings need to function in harmony to get a good crimp, and a good crimp is paramount to ballistic uniformity, especially with slower burning powders. I'll walk you through one by one with wad pressure/compatability, and crimp/taper combined.

1. Compatable components and wad pressure. Find a recipe from a reputable manual for your specific hull and wad. This is usually a good start, however some may be outliers that will not work due to volume changes by manufacturer. Usually, before I begin loading, I will size, prime, drop powder, then seat wad with ZERO wad pressure. I then inspect, with most wads having a shot weight rating near what you are loading, the top of the wad petals will lie just below the crimped portion of the shell when using correct wad pressure. This is where you want the top of your shot column to land as well. Adjust wad pressure until this height is reached. Note some powders and wads do not respond well to wad pressure. In my experience, "fluffy" flake powders tend to allow for more compression than ball or fine flake. Also Remington brand wads seem to allow very little compression, springing back to their original length.

2. Proper hull condition and type. Your hulls, especially for heavy hunting loads, should be in good condition without any scorched look or excessive memory in the crimp area. Also, some are very good for reloading, some are junk. Trial and error here, everyone has their favorites. Some will get brittle over time.

3. Crimp and taper. This is where the rubber meets the road. Crimp start... you need just the right amount, not too much or little. I've found between a 25-50% closure to be right, depending on the load. Too much and you will buckle the hull above the base, too little and you will get sloppy and deep crimps. The more closure on your crimp start, the less capacity your finished load will have (deepens the crimp). You'll have to experiment to find the happy spot. You also need to hold the handle down for a few seconds to hold the memory in the hull and start a good, sharp crimp. Now you're ready for the final crimp and taper. There are 2 settings on this die, plunger depth and die depth. You'll need the right amount, once again not too much or little, to get it right. Only trial and error will teach this. You already know what a good crimp should look like, so have at it, be safe, and good loading!

I would recommend loading a bunch of shells for casual trap shooting before taking the plunge into high performance field loads. The faster burning powders are forgiving of mistakes so you can shoot up your ugly shells, and it will give you the time to tune your technique.

 

[desertcj]

What about roll crimping with a card on top of the shot? Anyone have experience with that? I was looking into it to load some specialized tungsten shells for coyote. They are either very rare now or through the roof expensive to buy!

 

[5shot]

What about roll crimping with a card on top of the shot? Anyone have experience with that? I was looking into it to load some specialized tungsten shells for coyote. They are either very rare now or through the roof expensive to buy!

Pretty easy, but finding load data might be hard. I buy once fired 3-1/2" shells and cut them to 3", then roll crimp. I've been using #1 Super Buck and get 40 yard patterns that you can cover with a paper plate.

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[desertcj]

I guess that's my short coming. Seems like a 1 1/2 oz load would be a 1 1/2oz load? I was under the impression that roll crimping vs fold crimping wouldn't change the load data?

 

[Hunter2011]

Ok thanks for the input! So I went the cheap route to start with and bought the "Lee Load All 2" which is practically none adjustable to my knowledge. I've found that Lee's calculations for how much powder it throws is a little higher with Hodgdon International so unfortunately I cant go like exact. :| And the load I'm using a isn't very max but its not the bottom either. Maybe I'm applying too much pressure when crimping or too much wad pressure? :?:

At any rate this is the load I'm having issues with

Remington Gunclub Hull
Claybuster-Windjammer
1-1/8 oz. #8 Magnum shot
20.4 gr. Hodgdon Intl.
Ched 209 Primer


This was the worst one that was crushed. Crushed too badly to shoot?

Too much Crimp?

 

[mjcmichigan]

Pretty close to what I was loading when I got my MEC9000. The crimp onthe left shell is better that the one on the right. Might loose a pellet or more out the little hole. I’m not familiar with the Lee. I have 5 stations and two do the crimp. I can adjust the folders up or down. Looks like it’s being crushed. Are your wads for 1.125 oz?


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[Dwh7271]

If your loader has basically a round tube with the crimp in it, back the whole tube up a turn or two (what I did on my old Pacific 366) and you should quit crushing the sides. You can dial the crimp down from there. There should be a screw or other adjustment in the top center of the crimp station to adjust for crimp depth.

 

[truck driver]

https://www.ballisticproducts.com is the place to go for shot shell supplies.
They list a Mec 600jr Mark V press for $179.99 and some of the lowest hazmat fees I have seen.
I little trick for high performance Turkey loads that will tighten your groups is to get their buffering material to add to the shot column and I use an old Remington electric razor to vibrate the buffer material into the shot column for an even fill. Just remember to decrease the powder charge accordingly since you are adding weight to the load and it will increase the pressure making it a unsafe load!!!!!!

 

[Hunter2011]

I loaded 5 more shells using less crimp pressure and I got the shells crimp ok. I guess I was using a bit too much pressure. Thanks for the help!

Does this crimp look good?

 

[Hunter2011]

For my turkey loads... First, I wanna say I've read on this and it all boils down to you can buy better factory turkey loads unless you're reloading TSS. I know it takes some work with patterns etc, but I get a great sense of satisfaction putting animals on the table that I've killed with hand-loads. TSS or hevi-shot sound like the best out there, especially for the long shots. I however am wanting to load a simple 1-5/8 oz non-buffered #4 shot lead load for shots that'll be 35 yards tops. I have a bag of #4 magnum shot and a bag of 100 3" Fiocchi primed hulls. I am thinking of working with the half slit Rem SP-12 wads (made for 1-1/4oz) and blue-dot.

But I have a question. The gun I'll be shooting this load out of will have a ported barrel(not choke) I'm assuming that the small shot cup will not hold the full 1-5/8oz in the cup, considering it is really made for a 1-1/4oz load. Will shot that is not in the shot cup be a danger to me or the gun because of the porting? Also, could this danger be eliminated by using Mylar shot wraps?

Would Mylar shot wraps also tighten the pattern?

Does one have to modify the load to make using mylar shot wraps safe?

Sorry I'm new and dumb to this side of reloading and I couldn't find some of these exact questions on other forums.

Thank you for your input and patience

 

[Dwh7271]

No danger because of the porting.
I had two trap guns ported and shot them a bunch, no issues.
One of the guys mentioned it earlier, you want tighter then use a buffer. As also mentioned, allow for the buffer weight.

 

[truck driver]

You stated no choke so I'm wondering how you expect a cylinder bore to shoot a tight pattern?
I have a barrel that the forcing cone has been lengthened and the choke back bored in a factory barrel that shoots buffered 2 3/4" 1 1/2oz buffered loads like a rifle.
I won't publish my load because it would be unsafe in most shotguns but works great in my Remington 1100 3" mag.

 

[Hunter2011]

Sorry for not clarifying I meant it doesn't have a ported choke, but it has ported barrel. I believe the choke in it is a XX full turkey choke.
Thanks

 

[truck driver]

Sorry for not clarifying I meant it doesn't have a ported choke, but it has ported barrel. I believe the choke in it is a XX full turkey choke.
Thanks

Some of the best shooting shotgun barrels I have had were cylinder bored for slugs that I had the forcing cone lengthened and bottle choked/ Back bored. I never had one sleeved but they can be very effective also.
There are a few gun smiths in PA that makes special barrels just for shooting still targets
That shot extremely tight groups at 40yds.
There is a science to getting the most out of a shot gun barrel almost like a rifle but they can be improved for what ever type of shooting you use them for.
Choke tubes work but I prefer a good bottle choked/ back bored barrel.