Should I pull these and start over?

[joelkdouglas]

I loaded up some 180 ABs for my 30-06 tonight. Some powder charge variance, and some OAL variance. Both are for group size testing.

No issues so far, until I do the concentricity check. The concentricity of the loaded rounds is really erratic, some up to 0.008! Normally I set aside rounds exceeding 0.002, but few in this group meet that standard.

I am guessing this brass needs annealed? It has been fired 5 times. In any case, I have numerous pieces of quality virgin or once-fired brass at the ready. I could pull these, dump the powder back in the container, slow push and catch of the primer, and rebuild with different brass.

What would you do?

 

[joelkdouglas]

Forgot to add some key facts:

I'll be shooting at 100 yards.

This rifle chambered with a match reamer.

 

[FOTIS]

I love this!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


http://www.midwayusa.com/product/220200 ... icity-gage

 

[FOTIS]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UIQQD7L4vlk

 

[joelkdouglas]

I had one of those--it gave me different readings than the Sinclair, and I decided to trust the Sinclair more than the Hornady. I couldn't mentally resolve why the two gauges gave me different readings.

As it is, I can get loaded round concentricity to less than 0.002 for 18 or 19 of 20 rounds. The other one or two normally less than 0.004. No real need to correct any of those, so no real need for the tool.

 

[FOTIS]

OK I use mine religiously.

 

[Ridgerunner665]

At 5 times fired...yes, the brass should be annealed, in my opinion. I anneal after 3 firings...

The loaded rounds..pull them, shoot them...doesn't really matter...but I wouldn't use them for accuracy or load testing.

If this is the first time you've loaded AccuBond bullets...I'd check the seater plug in the die to make sure its fitting the bullet right...longshot I know, but I have found out the hard way that even dies are out of whack sometimes.

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[gerry]

Can work hardened brass cause excessive run out?

 

[Ridgerunner665]

Can work hardened brass cause excessive run out?

I've never personally seen it...but it makes sense...excessive force to size the case due to hard brass, pulling the necks off center as you lower the ram, excessive force to seat the bullet...any or all of the above could cause runout I imagine.

I've only been checking concentricity for about a year now...never gave it much thought before that.

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[gerry]

Trying to figure out concentricity issues can be frustrating since there can be so many factors. Good brass definitely helps, I loaded up some Norma 35 Whelen cases the other day, the ones with 225 gr Accubonds were amazing, under .002" and some reading perfect, the 225 gr Partition were around.002-.004 with exactly the same dies and brass so different bullets can seat differently. Some new Lapua 260 Rem brass had horrible run out I'm not sure what the problem was but suspect my seater die didn't like the 129 gr ABLR.

 

[Blkram]

Just my two cents worth...

But if it were me, I would double check my brass, or use just the virgin or once-fired brass exclusively for load testing, check my dies for proper set up and ensure that you are getting consistent oal. (brass that has been loaded more than once ...unless fire formed to my chamber first...I reserve for practice loads, but do not use for load development or for hunting rounds)

Next, if I were to pull the bullets, and dump the powder for re-use, I would not try to save the primers if I punched them out (if I was inclined to re-use this same brass), but reseat with new primers (for just a few, the savings of 25 cents for the small number used for a load development batch is enough to warrant trying to capture and reuse the primers). And I would not put the powder from these pulled loads back in the canister, but immediately reuse it, or start again with new powder. And ensure that I am getting consistent powder charge weights for every loaded round.

I realize that we cannot all afford to be so liberal with our reloading supplies as we may like, or we just do not have the component availability to perform the "best case" scenario as we may like, but for load development, I believe the best use of the product in the long run will provide us with better results and save us money in the long run. Even if it seems like we are wasting some money in the beginning.

 

[kraky]

Now's a good time to find out if your gun is sensitive to runnout!
It may not matter at all.

 

[Kodiak]

After using an old RCBS Rockchucker press for up-teen centurys, I finally had to replace the die-receiver collar in the top of the press. Run-out was getting bother-some, but went away after that remedy. Also, some bullet-seater dies are sensitive to screw-in tolerances.

 

[joelkdouglas]

Thanks gents. I pulled them last night, and I'll rebuild.

I was also surprised the concentricity was poor (at least for my standards). I was sizing with a Redding Competition Bushing Neck sizer, and then a Redding Body Die. After sizing most pieces were <0.002. Seating was done with a Redding Competition seater, which normally does a very fine job.

I often measure concentricity after each step--fired/before sizing, then neck sizing, then body (if required), then seating. I do this to identify errors in the process, and I have reduced runout significantly doing this.

The change before last night's seating is I had been using a Lee Collet Die for neck sizing. However, the Lee die doesn't grip bullets as consistently with brass that has been work hardened, which is why I switched to the Redding Comp sizer. Then the runout didn't show up after neck sizing, but I would bet that's where it came from.

I pulled them because I only have about 200 x 180 Accubonds. Not a critical level yet, but not enough to go slinging around for a concentricity check. I have cheaper match bullets for that!

 

[DaveA37]

A nice tool but pretty labor intensive to get each and every bullet to that degree. Is it practical for hunting rounds?

 

[gerry]

A nice tool but pretty labor intensive to get each and every bullet to that degree. Is it practical for hunting rounds?

For close range no, for long range it can make a difference for sure. Using high quality brass like Norma and Lapua helps a lot when it comes to seating bullets straight, having a good die that doesn't produce crooked ammo helps as well.

 

[joelkdouglas]

A nice tool but pretty labor intensive to get each and every bullet to that degree. Is it practical for hunting rounds?

I put more effort into my hunting rounds than any other. I also wouldn't shoot farther than 350 yards or so. I just want to know everything I can about the hunting rounds, in case I need to make a 40 yard neck shot or a 300 yard shot into a canyon.

I don't check the concentricity of my range rounds, and I make far more of them than hunting rounds. My range rounds get the worst brass, powder charges that are close enough (normally within 0.1 grains), generally not very much time bothered with load development, etc. I don't measure OAL of range rounds once I have the seater good for the first one. And wouldn't you know, the range rounds out shoot the hunting rounds 9 times out of 10. Could be the range rounds have match bullets in them, and the hunting rounds have hunting bullets in them…

I also enjoy the time at the reloading bench. After the kids are in bed, don't want to read or watch TV every night…I already run or lift weights 4 - 6 hours a week.

 

[kraky]

Years ago a well known shooter at snipers hide decided to load as batch of "careless" ammo. He did use his favorite recipe but broke out his old FL dies and threw together a batch of ammo with virtually no controls. No sorting, checking of run out, matched trimming, primer uniforming. Just slapped it together and headed to his 500 yd range. The result was group after group hovering at 3" at 500 yds.

 

[ElmerThud]

Personally, I’d dis-assemble the rounds and start over.

http://riflemansjournal.blogspot.co.uk/ ... space.html

http://riflemansjournal.blogspot.co.uk/ ... unout.html

The two articles above gave me more of an insight into making consistent ammunition, especially where ‘long’ cartridges are involved. This because excessive run-out readily occurs over the length of the completed ‘long’ round, whereas a shorter cartridge tends to show a much smaller run-out error factor. .25-06, .270 & 30-06 are all ‘long’ culprits!

Naturally enough for me, I want to make ammunition that’s consistent and accurate, but don’t want to measure and correct each round I produce. I’m not a masochist! - Besides which, I feel sure if by discovering run-out and then ‘forcing’ the bullet in an attempt to correct matters, neck tension must change somewhat.
I’d rather try to get it right first time around and minimise as far as possible the error factor.

I view setting up the F/L resizing die as of ‘critical’ importance and in doing this, setting the headspace I will re-size to, followed by centralising the die & expander rod. Using a rubber ‘O’ ring under the lock nut aids achieving centraIising the die and adjusting headspace. The shellholder in your press should allow some 'slippage' for the case to self centre to the die too.
I always de-cap primers in a separate operation beforehand using a de-capping die and never de-cap using the expander rod in the F/L die. Setting up this way is the best one can do to ensure concentricity between cartridge case & case neck.

To do the above, you need a headspace measuring tool of some sort and you need to know the ‘Go/No-go’ fit of a given cartridge to the breech/chamber of your rifle. I determine this dimension by using a de-capped fireformed cartridge, packing the case head with paper and measuring the length from mid-neck to paper base until the bolt will only close with a fairly tight (but not overtight) fit.

It’s all down to determining the very best set-up using all available data to begin with, leaving only the bullet seating process to go wrong. Whatever bullet seating die I use, I always seat a bullet and at first seating tension, lower the ram and rotate the case a couple of times before seating the bullet all the way.
I'm not a target shooter, but I do want the very best of reliability and performance from my hunting loads.
Best of luck whatever you do & I hope it works out ET