Solid Baser Boat Tail Non-Ballistic Tip

[walkinhorseman]

I see that the SBBT without the ballistic tip is back but only in the Whitetail line of loaded ammo. I shot these back in the day long before the ballistic tip became the thing. They’re were cheap accurate and performed very well on deer. I was forced to the BT’s when they replaced the SBBT’s in the product line. I had a 1165 BT in a 308 pencil through the boiler room of a buck at 100 yards. Missed ribs in and out, not resulting in any reaction from the deer. Finished the job with a broadside shoulder shot.

I would like to see the non-BT Solid base Boattail available again for reloading.

 

[JD338]

The return of the Solid Base bullet in the Whitetail line of ammunition last fall was a huge success for Nosler. I expect to see additional offerings in the future.
As a result, seconds are offered when they become available. I grabbed several bags of the 308 165 gr SB last year and filled a late season doe tag with one in my 308 Win.
I also bought some 7mm 140 gr SB seconds for my wife's 7-08 earlier this spring.

JD338

 

[wvbuckbuster]

I see that the SBBT without the ballistic tip is back but only in the Whitetail line of loaded ammo. I shot these back in the day long before the ballistic tip became the thing. They’re were cheap accurate and performed very well on deer. I was forced to the BT’s when they replaced the SBBT’s in the product line. I had a 1165 BT in a 308 pencil through the boiler room of a buck at 100 yards. Missed ribs in and out, not resulting in any reaction from the deer. Finished the job with a broadside shoulder shot.

I would like to see the non-BT Solid base Boattail available again for reloading.

I head a hundred times the same story from a departed friend of his experience using the old Nosler solid base boat tail lead tipped bullet in his 6mm Rem claiming it poked a hole straight through a deer with minimal damage and after along tracking job with additional shots required to finish off the deer. My take on these type of stories is I don't doubt what happened just credit it to a fluke bullet performance. My friend swore off Nosler bullets and would never try them again even after all the improvements made over the years.

 

[Guy Miner]

The return of the Solid Base bullet in the Whitetail line of ammunition last fall was a huge success for Nosler. I expect to see additional offerings in the future.
As a result, seconds are offered when they become available. I grabbed several bags of the 308 165 gr SB last year and filled a late season doe tag with one in my 308 Win.
I also bought some 7mm 140 gr SB seconds for my wife's 7-08 earlier this spring.

JD338

Some years ago I scooped up 6mm 100 gr and .30 cal 165's - all solid base seconds. They shot great from the 6mm Rem and the 30-06. My son took some game with them, deer & bear. The bullets did well.

Interesting stories about the original Ballistic Tip bullets not opening up. Usually I hear just the opposite, that they were too fragile at first. That's my recollection of them, that they expanded very quickly, too quickly, so they got "toughened up."

I remember looking at those new plastic tip Noslers and thinking "what have they done to my solid base bullets?" The Ballistic Tips have proven to be excellent performers for me in 6mm, .257, and .30 cal.

Regards, Guy

 

[JD338]

From what I have seen and read, I firmly believe that most "bullet failures" are not bullet failures but instead poor marksmanship and bullet placement.

JD338

 

[walkinhorseman]

OK…I screwed up this post. There problem that I had was with an early BALLISTIC TIP, not the lead tipped Solid Base Boat Tail. The acronyms are confusing. I preferred the NON-Ballistic Tip Solid Boat Tail. The lead tip was more reliable for me.

 

[Blkram]

If your hunting is typically less than 300 yards, then the non-boattail bullets will perform just fine, for accuracy and on-game performance. But as always, bullet placement is the key.

A boattail bullet's advantage comes into play after 300 yards for the enhanced BC and velocity retention properties that assist bullet performance at longer ranges. We must make allowances for what we expect as a typical range in order to determine which bullet will provide the proper performance at that range parameter given the particular cartridge performance it is being used in.

Velocity will also test a bullets performance on game. Too high will cause more rapid or even explosive expansion, whereas too slow will not provide for adequate expansion. And since we never know for certain at what range we will encounter our intended game (unless sitting over a bait), we must make our best guess in our choice of ammo and/or bullet for that particular circumstance. Most err on the side of caution, and will choose a boattail design.

As I have recorded my hunting experience over the past 38 years, my average shot distance is just 132 yards, so I have not needed a boattail on average...but I have not experienced any failures when having one even when not needed.

And where a bullet does not encounter anything but soft tissue, a stouter bullet may not expand as much as when encountering mud-caked hide,, thick skin, tougher/larger muscle groups, and bone.

All part of the fun and adventure of handloading, choosing the right ammunition and/or bullet for hunting!

 

[trapper10]

Try the Hornady V-Max

 

[walkinhorseman]

Acronyms are confusing. My title introduced an element of interpretation, so I edited it.

I do believe that the original solid base lead tipped bullets were not flat base but had a tapered [boat tail] base. But that’s was more than 50 years ago so my recollection may be faulty at this point. I have been hunting since I was 12 years old and now at 77, I may get a little fuzzy on the memory.

However, we tend to remember hunting events that leave a lasting impression. That 308 ballistic tip failure was one of them. In real woods hunting situations, sometimes we are offered a shot that we have to make a quick decision on. This event occurred in the last day of deer season in PA after I had hunted 10 contiguous days without seeing many deer. I used to hunt in a Wild Area in North Central PA where the deer herd is sparse. I was on a forestry trail, still hunting up the hollow somewhat dejected after putting in 10 long days in some very inclement conditions. I looked ahead on the trail to see the backs of two deer in a depression with their heads down feeding. I couldn’t see their heads until they picked them up and there were two beautiful bucks with well adorned heads standing in line side by side. It was Noon on the last day of the season. I was caught in the open about 120 yards from these deer so I froze in position and had to wait for them to separate before I shot. I couldn’t get to a tree for a rest and had typically done a fair amount of offhand shooting, I waiting for my pulse to settle enough to take a shot. I am not a typical boiler room shooter and prefer central nervous system shot but decided that under the conditions, I would take a lung shot. At the shot, both bucks jumped around around and then just stood where they were as they had not detected me. I saw no reaction of a hit in that buck. I had chambered a round and moved up into the shoulder a dumped the buck. The drag out of that hollow got me back to the truck at around 17:00.
Hunting in the big timber sometimes only gives you a fleeting moment to make a shot, “threading the needle” through a window in the trees is all that you are going to get in a season. Sometimes you have to pass on a shot. Sometimes you have to break that trigger sear and hope that you and your equipment are up to the task. I had one instance with a 140 grain Sierra out of a 280 REM at about 3000 fps where the bullet never got past the ribs. The shock made that buck just stop and stand wobbling around on his feet like a he had been pole axed by Muhammad Ali. That gave me time to get a second shot into the base of his neck. When I skinned that buck, the whole entry side of the rib cage was bloodshot.
So BLKRM, I appreciate the schooling on bullet design, construction and application but I am not a novice at the game. In the 60+ years since I started hunting, there have been some amazing developments in bullet technology. I wish that I would have had some of these current designs earlier in my hunting lifetime. I still have a box of the Nosler Partitions 175/7mm with the turned nose section.

 

[Blkram]

I wasn't insinuating that you are a novice...just providing some thoughts we can sometimes tend to forget when trying to determine why a bullet does what it does, or why an animal may react otherwise than expected when struck by a bullet.
Most who have spent any great length of time hunting and shooting will experience strange things that just don't make sense. I know I have too. Once hit a caribou slightly quartering away at 150 yards, where the bullet split in tow after entering the ribs, with the smaller portion of that bullet travelling through both lungs and out the offside. The larger portion of that bullet turned 90 degrees and travelle through the stomach cavity, coming to rest in the offside rear quarter. That caribou ran about 400 yards before expiring, without offering me any opportunity for a follow up shot. Cannot explain why that bullet split apart as it did, down the long axis of the bullet, and caused that bullet to make that strange change in direction.

I too have used good bullets/ammo that hit animals that showed little to no reaction to the hit, that would have proved fatal had I given them time to die, but have made a quick follow up shot as I was taught that if the animal is still standing or down and not dead, to make that follow up shot to reduce suffering or escape. In reading your account of the deer hit with the 280 Rem and 140 gr Sierra that didn't penetrate past the ribs, sounds like stories others have reported of similar results. Why it happens can only speculated, as in most instances these bullets are not recoverable for scientific analysis to clearly determine why it "failed". Many reported similar experiences with the early Ballistic Tips, which resulted in Nosler beefing up the jackets on this bullet, which provided better on-game performance afterwards.

I hit an elk at 100 yards with a 165 gr SGK out of a 7MM STW that leaves the muzzle of my rifle at 3222 fps. It entered between the ribs, penciled through the lungs and heart, and exited the other side between the ribs. That bull didn't even blink! My next shot hit a rib at a slightly different angle, as he made a slight movement before my follow up shot, creating a 4" hole on that side, went through both lungs and out the otherside through another rib, creating a similarly sized exit hole. He didn't go far...just stumbled a few steps before going down. Of the other dozen animals taken with that rifle and ammo at that point (before Federal stopped making it and loaded it with the 160 gr AccuBond), I never experienced a similar reaction as that elk with that ammo. (I am a hunter that prefers a double lung shot as it typically produces quicker kills and shorter follow ups.) I still have a good supply of this ammo and won't hesitate to continue to hunt with it based on that one performance that may be considered by some as less than satisfactory, as it has worked very well on the other animals taken with it. The newer AccuBond ammo shoots a little better in my rifle (1" groups at 300 yards), and the AB has become a favourite bullet in most of my rifles, and has provided a couple of decades of great on-game performance when I do my part.

 

[300WSM]

I head a hundred times the same story from a departed friend of his experience using the old Nosler solid base boat tail lead tipped bullet in his 6mm Rem claiming it poked a hole straight through a deer with minimal damage and after along tracking job with additional shots required to finish off the deer. My take on these type of stories is I don't doubt what happened just credit it to a fluke bullet performance. My friend swore off Nosler bullets and would never try them again even after all the improvements made over the years.

Those tyoe of people ...and I mean no disrespect toward your friend....

But it's always soneone/something else's fault.

6mm is tiny. Immediately shot placement becomes paramount. Without the perfect shot your example can happen with many
o' bullet from many o'mfg

I'm not a fan of anything less than 25 cal for Deer size game and larger.
Even then I'm not wild about that.

Things can happen afield. Weird angles. Animals turning ever so slightly. Wind. Distance. Many unpredictable things happen and especially you as the shooter and the equipment.

Point of aim is always good.
POI isn't.
I'm a big proponent of quick humane kill and a hole less than a quarter of an inch is just too small IMO for Deer size game.

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