Starting to kick around project ideas

tddeangelo

Handloader
May 18, 2011
2,023
20
Haven't been around here much, so thought I'd start a thread on something I've been talking over with Scotty and Brian and a few others...

I have a lot of 30-cal rifles, mostly military collectibles, but I have fully 3 hunting rifles in 30-06 (1917 sporter, pre64 M70, and an M70 Classic DBM model), along with an M70 Extreme Weather in 300WSM and a prewar M70 in 300H&H.

I'm ready to look at some other calibers/bore sizes.

I do have an M70 XTR fwt in 257 Roberts that is a sweetheart, and I have a Ruger No. 1V in 25-06, along with a Marlin 1895 Guide Gun in 45-70, just to flesh out my hunting rifle scenario.

I've thought about a lot of different rounds, from the 6.5x55 and the 264WM to the 35 Whelen, 338-06, 338WM, and 375H&H.

What I've decided, though, is to use the M70 Classic in 30-06 as a donor. It's a good shooting rifle, but I can't bear to tear up a semi-decent looking pre64 rifle like the pre64 '06 I have, yet I have too many 30-cal's.

I've started gathering parts to convert the DBM setup on the Classic to a standard floorplate. I have one piece bottom metal in hand, and I have a take-off from an EW rifle (a 270) on deck as the next purchase. I'll have less than $250 in all of that, by the way, so those were deals I couldn't refuse. ;)

What I really need now are the internals...mag box, follower, and spring. Then I figured I'd run the gun in that setup as an '06 for a couple years till I get my finances in order. And then I want to change the caliber.

SO.....

My thoughts are tending toward something larger than 30-cal, and I've really be kicking around the 338-06, 338-06AI, and the 35 Whelen.

For some reason, I've also wondered if I should look smaller than 30, but 270's are so passé..... lol. Maybe a 6.5 of some sort?

Dunno......but any thoughts would be appreciated...just a theoretical discussion for now, but I do want to do this project in the next couple of years, hopefully.
 
338-06 or 35 Whelen would be my picks. You already get to use your Dad's 6.5 Swede, so you can wet your whistle on that one if you want. The 338 and 35 offer alot of extra thump for larger than deer, if you were to get to hunt the big animals. I really like the Whelen a bunch. Either one has a ton of good bullets available for hunting.
 
Tom,

Good to see you posting again. The 338s and the 35 Whelen you are considering would be fine cartridges that would get the job done anywhere in North America, and in much of the remainder of the world. I like the larger calibres, and I've discovered that you don't need to make them magnums to thump game right smartly.
 
Mike and Scotty,

Depending on the day of the week, moon phase, and relative humidity, my mind changes on this regularly. I haven't yet had that "pull" to one or the other. Still trying to figure out what I like best. I'm sure I can rationalize any chambering enough ways to make it make sense, to me at least, lol.

Since I would use this when the weather is bad, I like frontal area for the bullet, but it doesn't need to shoot real terribly long. 300 yards of reach handles 99% of my hunting scenarios anyway. Now, whenever I do get to head west for elk or other critters, maybe that will be a constraint, but for now, I think the "reach" of 300 is plenty.

I guess my impressions are that the 35 Whelen will have a bit more mid-range trajectory than the 338-06? Seems on first glance like more bullet options to experiment with the 338's, but Scotty has already pointed out that there are very good 358 bullet choices on the market, too.
 
Truth be told, Tom, both the 338-06 and the Whelen are fine cartridges. Animals killed with them have been incapable of distinguishing between which one was used. One study showed that 9 out of ten moose shot with one of these cartridges were unable to tell what was used. The one that could tell relied on blind luck.
 
If your serious about keeping it under 300 yards there is an old saying that engine builders have used since probably the very first ignition stroke on the first internal combustion engine...

"there is no replacement for displacement" !!!

Go the whelen route. I know Scotty would never steer us wrong!!
 
I'll throw an odd duck into the mix - but one that's gaining in popularity and utility. You should consider the 9.3x62, Tom. It's everything the other two are, and then some. Couple it with excellent bullets in the 230-300gr range (especially a 250gr AccuBond from Nosler) and you're well set for anything on this continent and even the dangerous stuff in some parts of Africa where .366cal is acceptable for it. With a 22-24" barrel, you won't be disappointed in trajectory or energy downrange, either. Set up with a 5" kill circle (allowing for ~2MOA group size out to 300yds) for white-tails, with a 250gr AB, you'd be looking at a Point Blank Range of 230yds, roughly, and you'd be holding dead on the top of his back at 300yds. Make that kill circle 8" for elk, and your PBR becomes 280yds with "top of back" out around 350yds or so. There just isn't much inside 350yds you could not take with that setup.

And it would be very cool, too.
 
I do like the 9.3X62; it is a hammer. It is a pleasant cartridge to shoot. I'm sorry I overlooked this excellent, though neglected, chambering.
 
How does that look in an action built for a 30-06? Is there any machining work needed to run it?
 
dubyam":2252kjl5 said:
I'll throw an odd duck into the mix - but one that's gaining in popularity and utility. You should consider the 9.3x62, Tom. It's everything the other two are, and then some. Couple it with excellent bullets in the 230-300gr range (especially a 250gr AccuBond from Nosler) and you're well set for anything on this continent and even the dangerous stuff in some parts of Africa where .366cal is acceptable for it. With a 22-24" barrel, you won't be disappointed in trajectory or energy downrange, either. Set up with a 5" kill circle (allowing for ~2MOA group size out to 300yds) for white-tails, with a 250gr AB, you'd be looking at a Point Blank Range of 230yds, roughly, and you'd be holding dead on the top of his back at 300yds. Make that kill circle 8" for elk, and your PBR becomes 280yds with "top of back" out around 350yds or so. There just isn't much inside 350yds you could not take with that setup.

And it would be very cool, too.

Well played Dub.. That is another I wouldn't mind having...
 
Tom,

280 AI and 35 Whelen.
The Whelen is a 400 yard elk hammer with the right load and the 280 AI is ideal for anything in NA. You will have no problem with deer sized game at 600 yds. Both will work on the same bolt face as the 30-06 door action.

JD338
 
tddeangelo":7hxr65yc said:
How does that look in an action built for a 30-06? Is there any machining work needed to run it?

It'll run on an 06 action fine. No machining necessary. There is a little difference in the shoulder area, but the basic feeding and function are very much 06 like.
 
Hmmmm.....

Jim, I just can't get a 280....there is one particular 280-shooter who would never, EVER let me live that down!

:lol:
 
Yeah, Tom, the 9.3x62 is a .432" casehead, and it's 62mm long, roughly, so it'll run in the 7.62x63mm length actions easily enough.

I'm debating a 9.3x62 myself, and I almost pulled the trigger on one (no pun intended) a while back. Trouble is, it has a nasty little bolt handle issue. It's a CZ 550 Medium, which I've been after for about a decade, and they apparently have a pressed-on bolt handle "ball" and on this particular rifle it's loose. Not sure how to fix it. And the trigger seemed a little messed up. I suspect I could remedy that, though. Need to see if it's still at the shop which had it, as it had been there a while back in the fall. Maybe they'd come off the price a bit after all this time. Suspect nobody else wants it, as it'd been there a few months when I last looked. Hmmm...now you've got me thinking...dadgum you.
 
Just ran some comparisons....using Nosler's online reloading data and comparing to my 300H&H shooting a 180gr PT at 3015 (my current load), I ran the 9.3x62 running a 286gr PT at 2400. Nosler's online data tops out in the 2300's, and is usually (I've thought) on the conservative side, so I used 2400.

For kinetic energy, the 9.3 just leaves the 300H&H behind, and quickly. Even in at 100 yards, there's 100ft/lbs more for the 9.3 than the 300. By 300 yards, the difference is nearly 300ft/lbs.

The trade off is trajectory. To 300 yards, not a huge difference (about 3" difference at 300 yards, so not a huge issue). At 500 yards, that difference has grown to fully 20" of drop. The 9.3 maintains the 300ft/lb advantage, however, and is slower by about 200fps when compared to the 300 H&H.

Dub, YOU started this 9.3 stuff...don't blame this on me! lol
 
tddeangelo":3s1umw52 said:
I have a lot of 30-cal rifles, mostly military collectibles, but I have fully 3 hunting rifles in 30-06 (1917 sporter)

Having just built a .338-06 myself and a Whelen owner as well I think you should change directions. You have the perfect candidate for a custom build right there in your 1917. The action is "Huge" and perfect for a .375 H&H or larger up to the Rigby case. You may never go to Africa but you can have an African DGR rifle.

I'd imagine that the 1917 has some things you'd like change on it anyway. ;)
 
Actually, that one is off the table for custom work. I agree, that's a great platform to build from, HOWEVER...

It was my father's first deer rifle, and while he also says it would be a good one to change up, I'm not keen on doing so, for sentimental reasons.
 
Oh, no. I'm blaming you, Tom. You started discussing mid-bores and that directly caused me to venture off on this path again. It's all your fault.

I do have to make one small correction. The casehead is not .473" but rather .470". Pretty sure that won't make a difference for the rifle or either of our desires, but in the interest of absolute accuracy of facts, I had to correct my earlier post.
 
I refuse to accept said blame. It's not my fault you are weak of resolve and cannot resist the allure of the mid-bores.

:)
 
Just to give you an idea of numbers. The 9.3x62 is kept pretty low in PSI's for older rifles, but I would be pretty comfortable running it up to 60K without issues..

Cartridge : 9.3 x 62
Bullet : .366, 286, Nosler PART SP 44750
Useable Case Capaci: 64.040 grain H2O = 4.158 cm³
Cartridge O.A.L. L6: 3.291 inch = 83.59 mm
Barrel Length : 24.0 inch = 609.6 mm
Powder : Winchester 760

Predicted data by increasing and decreasing the given charge,
incremented in steps of 2.0% of nominal charge.
CAUTION: Figures exceed maximum and minimum recommended loads !

Step Fill. Charge Vel. Energy Pmax Pmuz Prop.Burnt B_Time
% % Grains fps ft.lbs psi psi % ms

-20.0 80 49.95 1947 2408 27490 6022 86.0 1.717
-18.0 82 51.20 1996 2531 29303 6227 87.3 1.671
-16.0 84 52.45 2046 2657 31241 6428 88.6 1.627
-14.0 86 53.70 2095 2787 33313 6624 89.8 1.583
-12.0 88 54.95 2145 2921 35529 6814 91.0 1.541
-10.0 90 56.20 2195 3058 37904 6998 92.1 1.498
-08.0 92 57.44 2244 3199 40448 7174 93.1 1.453
-06.0 94 58.69 2294 3343 43178 7343 94.1 1.411
-04.0 96 59.94 2344 3490 46109 7503 95.0 1.370
-02.0 98 61.19 2394 3641 49261 7654 95.8 1.330
+00.0 100 62.44 2444 3795 52651 7795 96.6 1.292
+02.0 102 63.69 2495 3952 56306 7926 97.3 1.255 ! Near Maximum !
+04.0 104 64.94 2545 4112 60250 8045 97.9 1.219 ! Near Maximum !
+06.0 106 66.19 2595 4275 64513 8153 98.4 1.184 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
+08.0 108 67.44 2645 4442 69128 8248 98.9 1.150 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
+10.0 110 68.68 2695 4611 74137 8329 99.3 1.118 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!

Results caused by ± 10% powder lot-to-lot burning rate variation using nominal charge
Data for burning rate increased by 10% relative to nominal value:
+Ba 100 62.44 2570 4193 64032 7717 99.8 1.196 ! Near Maximum !
Data for burning rate decreased by 10% relative to nominal value:
-Ba 100 62.44 2280 3300 42643 7462 89.3 1.415

Cartridge : 9.3 x 62
Bullet : .366, 250, Nosler AccuBond 59756
Useable Case Capaci: 63.960 grain H2O = 4.153 cm³
Cartridge O.A.L. L6: 3.291 inch = 83.59 mm
Barrel Length : 24.0 inch = 609.6 mm
Powder : Winchester 760

Predicted data by increasing and decreasing the given charge,
incremented in steps of 2.0% of nominal charge.
CAUTION: Figures exceed maximum and minimum recommended loads !

Step Fill. Charge Vel. Energy Pmax Pmuz Prop.Burnt B_Time
% % Grains fps ft.lbs psi psi % ms

-20.0 84 52.38 2076 2393 27849 6017 83.0 1.604
-18.0 86 53.69 2131 2520 29755 6233 84.5 1.560
-16.0 88 55.00 2185 2651 31801 6445 85.9 1.517
-14.0 90 56.31 2240 2785 33999 6653 87.3 1.475
-12.0 92 57.62 2295 2925 36362 6855 88.6 1.434
-10.0 95 58.93 2351 3068 38907 7051 89.8 1.391
-08.0 97 60.24 2407 3215 41648 7239 91.0 1.348
-06.0 99 61.55 2463 3367 44606 7420 92.1 1.307
-04.0 101 62.86 2519 3522 47800 7592 93.2 1.267
-02.0 103 64.17 2576 3682 51235 7755 94.2 1.229
+00.0 105 65.48 2632 3846 55008 7907 95.1 1.191
+02.0 107 66.79 2689 4014 59076 8048 95.9 1.155 ! Near Maximum !
+04.0 109 68.10 2746 4186 63502 8177 96.7 1.120 ! Near Maximum !
+06.0 111 69.41 2803 4363 68328 8293 97.4 1.086 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
+08.0 113 70.72 2861 4543 73602 8395 98.0 1.053 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
+10.0 116 72.03 2918 4727 79377 8483 98.6 1.022 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!

Results caused by ± 10% powder lot-to-lot burning rate variation using nominal charge
Data for burning rate increased by 10% relative to nominal value:
+Ba 105 65.48 2777 4282 67062 7925 99.3 1.101 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
Data for burning rate decreased by 10% relative to nominal value:
-Ba 105 65.48 2445 3319 44585 7475 86.9 1.308



Especially in Nosler brass...

http://shootersproshop.com/index.php?ro ... uct_id=283

It would be pretty slick and Nosler 250 AB is a pretty sleek bullet for shooting just about everything, then that 286 PT or Solid for when stuff just needs a little extra! :lol:
 
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