The 25-06 Is it really enough for mule deer?

[Oldtrader3]

Having owned a .25-06 for several years and having killed several deer with it, I have some thoughts about using this caliber for elk. I do not consider the .25-06 ideal for elk under a lot of circumstances, because of bullet weight. The only .25-06 bullet that I would consider for elk would be the 120 gr Partition.

 

[FOTIS]

Guys I know a guy who kills moose with a 250 Savage with a Savage 99.
He uses the 100 grain Hornady about 2700 fps.

 

[remingtonman_25_06]

buuuuut, moose are rather large and dumb and you can get close to them. Plus its about a proven fact they are not hard to kill, especially not as hard as elk. However, never shooting a moose myself, I cant really say, but I have shot a few elk. Just going by what I read, and by people who know what there talking about anyway.

There is better bullets then the 120 NP for elk to IMO, but certainly top 5. Its still going to only retain 60-65% of its weight, which when you only start with 120, dont leave much left...I'd really go with something even a bit tougher. Always thought the Swift A frames would be AWESOME close range bullet but I dont wanna pay a $1 a bullet either. But they will hold 95% of there weight, mushroom out real nice everytime, penetrate as deep as an X bullet, and shoot a lot better to!!

But when its all said and done, Id rather take a 7 or 300 mag and know its going to do the job everytime no matter what if I do mine. An elk running through the timber or busting out at 75 yards, hard quartering shot, or over 600 yards. You just never know what your gonna get into with elk, and sometimes you only have that 1 oppurtunity in a season, especially on public forest ground. Better make sure you got the right gun

 

[Oldtrader3]

I do not mind paying a buck a bullet for elk. Considering what elk hunting trips out of state have cost me, a buck a bullet is cheap insurance.

 

[remingtonman_25_06]

When you look at it that way true, cheap insurance. Theyd be great for close range, but at same time, being so tough, I wouldn't wanna shoot something at terribly long range with them either, chance of just poking through wouldn't be to good either. Still no perfect bullet out there but like to think were getting closer

I just know where I elk hunt, I rarely get a shot under 200 yards. Think I've shot 1 elk inside 200 yards. I just dont need that tough a bullet in the open canyons. Then again, when I go on top in the trees and brush, I'll usually slide a few shells with a tougher bullet in them just for that reason. The difference in impact at 100 yards at most in the trees/brush means nothing on deer and elk between 2 different bullets of same weight.

 

[jason miller]

FWIW, I have a friend in Oregon who gets an elk every year. He shoots them with a longbow now, but has told me that his 30-06 with 150 grain core-lokts worked great on them years ago(this includes a couple big 5x5's). He is of the opinion that elk aren't nearly as hard to kill as people make them out to be.

My 51 lb recurve with a middle weight arrow and good broadhead, from 15ish yards, can bust through a freshly boned-out mature cow's scapula and bury several inches into the old stump it was propped up against.

I haven't killed an elk myself, so my opinion is probably next to useless to some of you. But it seems to me that if you put a decent bullet into the lungs of an elk, it's going to die. How far it runs before it dies is probably more important to some than others and also probably highly variable. I personally wouldn't have any reservations at all about using a 25-06 if that were all I had on hand to shoot one with. Thankfully, though, I have bigger rifles...

 

[DrMike]

Jason,

I've witnessed some loved crazed elk absorb an amazing amount of lead before toppling. One elk I witnessed absorbed three hits from a 260 grain AB fired from a 376 Steyr and two 220 grain Partitions fired from a 325 WSM. It did topple finally, but continued attempting to get to the decoy that was erected not eighty yards in front of him. Would any of the shots have killed him? Yes, upon necropsy, each of the shots was killing. However, we did not want him slipping away (though he actually was trying to make it to be decoy). Would a 150 grain Partition from a 30-06 have worked? Likely, it would have killed just as effectively. The point is, these critters can take a lot of punishment and move surprisingly fast. I've tracked them for an amazing distance after they should have been dead. I really like to see a lot of hydrostatic shock in the boiler room on these critters just to give me opportunity to find them easily. I grant that any hole through the lungs will eventually kill an elk; but they are capable of covering a lot of ground before that eventuality occurs.

 

[jason miller]

I agree.

Maybe I wasn't clear, but I was attempting to say that getting a bullet into the lungs isn't the hard part about killing an elk, but rather that they might be able to cover some ground before they go down- and that the amount of ground they cover can vary by quite a bit.

With your type of experience, I can see why lots of people like to carry big guns. Although I'm not sure what cartridge would have made any difference, if that Steyr and a 325 WSM weren't enough to drop 'im...

 

[DrMike]

Obviously, either cartridge was sufficient. I've taken quite a few head of elk with the 325WSM. My point was the amount of devastating punishment that critter absorbed before finally toppling. The first shot staggered him, but he just wouldn't go down. We were unwilling to stop shooting until he was down. In fairness, last year, I dropped a fine bull with a 130 grain E-Tip. The shot staggered him. He turned around, stepped back a couple of steps and toppled over. However, he wasn't nearly so love crazed as the aforementioned bull. I recall another which my hunting partner shot with a perfect shot. We tracked that beast for a surprising distance through some of the deepest, darkest, densest forest you can imagine. They are hearty creatures.

 

[cloverleaf]

Guys I know a guy who kills moose with a 250 Savage with a Savage 99.
He uses the 100 grain Hornady about 2700 fps.

Not that I'm gonna try it....but I love hearing it! Honestly, at one time the 250 earned a reputation as a "wounder" of game. I think that had as much to do with the bullets available in 1920 as anything else. They werent constructed for the blistering velocity that the 250 generated. :wink: There isnt a deer that walks Id be afraid of trying with a 100 gr anything in my 250, let alone a 25-06.

The 250 has taken elk, as has been noted when all was right. Im not gonna try that either but... CL

 

[Oldtrader3]

The last elk that I shot was a 4-point bull, he had three cows with him and was in an amorous mood. I shot him twice at about 140 yards with a 180 grain Failsafe, .30-06 in the lungs, aortic arch area. He ran about 150 yards looking unaffected, he stopped and I shot him again in the high lung area and his head dropped. I finished him off with a raking shot sort of behind through both lungs. It was the first elk that I had shot in many years while not using a .338 Win Mag with Nosler 225's. Frankly, I prefer the .338 WM.

 

[SJB358]

I think Jorey is spot on though, use the bullet that won't lost a ton of it's weight and shoots accurately enough for 300-350 yard shooting and I can't see the 25-06 letting you down most of the time. I might grab a box of 120 Swifts as well, just to try out in Lori's 25-06. Those should shoot plenty flat for 300-350 and retain as much or more weight as what most folks use in their 270's. I do have some 120 PT's to try as well. Should be able to find something.

I know this started out with mule deer in mind, but it has been great to get me thinking about what to get ready for the wife's 25-06.

 

[elkeater2]

The last elk that I shot was a 4-point bull, he had three cows with him and was in an amorous mood. I shot him twice at about 140 yards with a 180 grain Failsafe, .30-06 in the lungs, aortic arch area. He ran about 150 yards looking unaffected, he stopped and I shot him again in the high lung area and his head dropped. I finished him off with a raking shot sort of behind through both lungs. It was the first elk that I had shot in many years while not using a .338 Win Mag with Nosler 225's. Frankly, I prefer the .338 WM.

I always thought elk in an amorous mood were tougher to kill :grin: Maybe Fail-safe didn't fail, just took awhile, huh. I also subscribe to the 'shoot til they drop' philosophy - and for those like us who are experienced with our firearms and getting on target that can easily be four shots. One of the main frustrations guiding hunters was the guys who didn't mind paying a buck a bullet but hadn't spent the time practicing, hadn't developed any confidence in reacting and shooting, didn't want to ruin meat with additional shots, etc. OT3 - if I needed a hunting partner I'd look you up!
EE2

 

[DrMike]

I also subscribe to the 'shoot til they drop' philosophy - and for those like us who are experienced with our firearms and getting on target that can easily be four shots.

Too often we admire our shot, only to lose the animal. It is amazing how fast a "dead" elk can run to dark timber. Consequently, a rutting muley can be surprisingly tough. More than once I've hit 'em a second time because I didn't want to track him through the bush.

 

[FOTIS]

I do not mind paying a buck a bullet for elk. Considering what elk hunting trips out of state have cost me, a buck a bullet is cheap insurance.

Super wise!

 

[JD338]

I do not mind paying a buck a bullet for elk. Considering what elk hunting trips out of state have cost me, a buck a bullet is cheap insurance.

Super wise!

I couldn't agree more.
I like to plan for the worst and hope for the best.


JD338

 

[Oldtrader3]

I have killed a lot of deer, mostly with one shot. Elk are totally a different set of circumstances and I lost my first elk to a 175 gr bullet faiure with a 7mm Mag. I went out and bought a .338 Win Mag, High Power, Browning and never looked back

 

[FOTIS]

I have killed a lot of deer, mostly with one shot. Elk are totally a different set of circumstances and I lost my first elk to a 175 gr bullet faiure with a 7mm Mag. I went out and bought a .338 Win Mag, High Power, Browning and never looked back

Which bullet?

 

[remingtonman_25_06]

Which 7mm 175 failed on your elk? I am curious. What were the circumstances?

Scotty- I have no doubt the 120 swift would be a great 0-400 yard elk bullet in the 25-06 for the wifey. I've always wanted to try them. Definately do a jug test at 25 yards.

We go with the same philosophy when it comes to elk, you keep putting bullets into them untill they are down and not moving anymore. You dont want them running down to the bottom of the canyon anymore then they already are.

I've had a good number of 1 shot kills on elk, even at extended ranges. I think it has to do with cartridge, bullet, and bullet placement.

Use enough gun, my thinking is this, if you can shoot a magnum accurately, then use it for elk. The little extra thump is nice. Use a good bullet that will break through the shoulders. Elk are tough and you'll never catch up to a 3 legged one due to insufficient penetration if shoulder is hit. Lastly, I like to put the bullet straight through the shoulders. They cant go anywhere with 2 broken shoulders, but straight down. Through the shoulders are lungs, with the bullet and bone being pushed through, that elk is toast on the spot 9 of 10 times from what I've seen and experienced.

If for some reason the elk does not drop on the spot, it usually wont go very far and stop before you can plug him again, either in the shoulder, or behind.

I've only had a couple elk take 2 shots to kill, most were 1 shot drop kills through the shoulders typically at longish type distances. I've used a 7 rem mag w/160-175s, 300 win mag/RUM with 180-210s, 338 EDGE w/250-300s out to 1125 yards on elk with no problems as of yet.

Just one guys opinion from a computer screen however

 

[SJB358]

Which 7mm 175 failed on your elk? I am curious. What were the circumstances?

Scotty- I have no doubt the 120 swift would be a great 0-400 yard elk bullet in the 25-06 for the wifey. I've always wanted to try them. Definately do a jug test at 25 yards.

We go with the same philosophy when it comes to elk, you keep putting bullets into them untill they are down and not moving anymore. You dont want them running down to the bottom of the canyon anymore then they already are.

I've had a good number of 1 shot kills on elk, even at extended ranges. I think it has to do with cartridge, bullet, and bullet placement.

Use enough gun, my thinking is this, if you can shoot a magnum accurately, then use it for elk. The little extra thump is nice. Use a good bullet that will break through the shoulders. Elk are tough and you'll never catch up to a 3 legged one due to insufficient penetration if shoulder is hit. Lastly, I like to put the bullet straight through the shoulders. They cant go anywhere with 2 broken shoulders, but straight down. Through the shoulders are lungs, with the bullet and bone being pushed through, that elk is toast on the spot 9 of 10 times from what I've seen and experienced.

If for some reason the elk does not drop on the spot, it usually wont go very far and stop before you can plug him again, either in the shoulder, or behind.

I've only had a couple elk take 2 shots to kill, most were 1 shot drop kills through the shoulders typically at longish type distances. I've used a 7 rem mag w/160-175s, 300 win mag/RUM with 180-210s, 338 EDGE w/250-300s out to 1125 yards on elk with no problems as of yet.

Just one guys opinion from a computer screen however

Great points Jorey. If people stick with shooting till they aren't moving, I would bet there wouldn't be alot of elk running away to not be recovered.

I might grab some of the 120 Swift's, if anything, just to see how they act in the jugs. The super premiums really do add a good measure of insurance to a smaller caliber. Kinda hard to argue with a bullet starting out at 120 grains and probably coming to rest at 115, if it is even recovered. Plus, those Swift's have some of the nicest mushrooms on the market!