Understanding the difference between Factory Hunting Rifles

[Tytalus]

Hi All, total newb here. I'm doing some research to understand what kind of gun will best fit my needs. I've got a friend with some land near the boonies that we can start hunting on, and if the game is scarce it's a short drive to the end of civilization. We're looking at shooting anything really, but probably small game and coyotes to start out with, then maybe a deer or a black bear next year. From what I've read, I probably need 2 or 3 different calibers (say 0.17 , 0.223 and a 0.30-06) for the range of game that is available. (Southwest BC, Canada)

I don't want to make a huge purchase with a gun that I eventually learn to hate due to being the wrong fit, nor do I want to by a cheap gun that soon becomes more hindrance than help. I haven't had an opportunity to spend some time on a range and get a feel for different guns, I think that will likely help out a lot. I have a budget, and a wife who is nominally supportive, but frequent gun purchases to find the "right fit" will go over poorly.

What I'd really like to do is buy the right gun once, (per caliber anyway), and maybe in 15 years pass it on to one of my kids if I upgrade to some fancy $5000+ custom job.

So, as part of this, one thing that has not been well clarified from at all what I've read is what is actually gained by buying an expensive (say ~1200-2000) gun vs a mid range gun (700 to 1100) vs an "entry level" gun (<700) ?

Also, how noticeable are these differences? I'm thinking of the difference in terms what manufacturers in general change as the price increases.

If anyone knows of any articles talking about this, I'd love to read them, I haven't been able to find any after numerous Google searches. Thanks in advance.

 

[taylorce1]

Usually more money gets you better metal finishes, better wood or synthetic stocks, and lighter weight. However it doesn't mean they will shoot any better. You really need to go to a big gun store and handle a few different rifles to get an appreciation for the differences.

 

[DrMike]

Tytalus,

Welcome to the forum; you'll meet a fine group of knowledgeable people here who are willing to work with any reasonable individual. You don't need to spend a lot of money to get a rifle that shoots with good accuracy. Good, used rifles will be found in most gun shops at reasonable prices. I have found some fine bargains for well under $500. Off the shelf rifles produced by most major manufacturers today will shoot more than adequately with a little attention to some readily addressed issues. You should be able to secure a good rifle/scope combination for a very reasonable price. I might suggest that you first buy a .22 long rifle and practise shooting from various field positions until you are comfortable with that rifle. It will serve you well for plinking and for taking small game. A good .22 centrefire up to even a mild .24 centrefire will allow you to tackle varmints. I would guess, living in the southwest part of the province, you will be somewhat anxious to do some serious hunting. By that criterion, I would be inclined to get a big game rifle before I got the varmint rifle. Since you are not shooting at the moment, I wouldn't advocate picking up a rifle that has some recoil. Anything from a 270 Winchester (or 270 WSM) to a .30-06 Springfield will permit you to hunt about anything in the province. A 7mm-08 might be ideal as it will handle elk and moose when loaded with appropriate bullets, and it will do the job without kicking you out from under your hat. Other rifles that will serve you well within these parameters would include the .280 Remington and .308 Winchester in addition to those already named.

 

[Guy Miner]

Excellent advice!

A good .22 rimfire for practice. They're accurate, fun to shoot, and inexpensive to feed.

A single good hunting rifle in some general-purpose cartridge, like the .270 Win, .308 Win, .30-06, something along those lines, will do very nicely.

You'll have to decide which particular rifle you like best, and likely the first choice is going to be which action type - bolt action, lever action or something else. Most hunters that I know use a bolt action rifle for most of their hunting, but some of us have a soft spot for a lever action too. I'd recommend starting out with a bolt action from one of the major makers:

Winchester, Ruger, Remington, Savage - that's where I'd start. I'd just about bet that Winchester or Ruger has something that will please you.

A quality scope is worth every penny. You don't have to get super-expensive, but plan on spending several hundred dollars. Well worth it.

Get the .22 rifle first and use it to learn to shoot. I never get tired of shooting my .22 rifle! Too much fun!

Welcome aboard. Good group of people here.

Guy

 

[Guy Miner]

You might consider picking up the book "Obsessions of a Rifle Loony" by John Barsness - entertaining and educational, about various rifles.

 

[Tytalus]

Wow, thanks for all the helpful suggestions guys! I've wondered about a 0.22 vs the newer 0.17s for small game, but again, I know too little at this point on even what kind of engagement range I'll be doing things in.

Usually more money gets you better metal finishes, better wood or synthetic stocks, and lighter weight. However it doesn't mean they will shoot any better. You really need to go to a big gun store and handle a few different rifles to get an appreciation for the differences.

Ah ok, that's very helpful to know! I was wondering about that since no one seems to talk it about on the hundreds of "how to get started hunting" guides out there.

Just some more info; my friend and I are both interesting in collecting pelts from a variety of animals, as his uncle is a furrier and can make some nice things for us at a modest discount. It's why I'm looking at about 3 guns, since that seems to be the necessary range for pelt preservation.

 

[DrMike]

The 17s can be very accurate with good reach. Ammunition tends to be more limited and more expensive than what is available for the 22 rimfires. As an aside, almost any rifle in good condition can be made to shoot well with carefully constructed handloads. However, if you can't see what you're shooting at, you can't hit it. A good scope is at least as important as the rifle. One need not spend a fortune on a scope, but the scope must work well--tracking as elevation and windage is changed, allowing good eye relief, quality phase coatings to permit maximum light transmission, etc.

 

[wildgene]

...fit, finish, features, look @ what you're getting for your money. Look for things like caliber/ cartridge availability, a blind magazine vs. a floor plate, barrel length, stock, trigger, safety...

..."Safety", just one of my many quirks, but if the safety doesn't lock the bolt I won't buy it, unless I know for certain I can get an aftermarket trigger assembly that will...

..."Trigger" if it feels, dirty, gritty or has excessive movement, "see above"...

..."Stock", does the action look like it "fits" in the stock, does the stock twist if you hold the wrist & pull on the forearm, does it come naturally to your shoulder, w/ your hands & cheek fitting comfortably???

...blind magazine/ floorplate/ removable mag, push feed vs. control feed, etc. are "personal preference" things, but they are features you should understand, & decide how important they are to you & the price of the rifle...

...Caliber/ cartridge choice/ barrel length/ weight all kinda go hand in hand. Super lite weight, super short rifles or Sendaro type rifles are "special use" configurations I wouldn't recommend for a "first rifle". Keep in mind that different cartridges in the same caliber are shooting the same bullets, the larger cartridges just give you more effective range. My rule of thumb is "Shoot the biggest cartridge you can shoot well", but while you're perusing rifles, take a stroll down the ammo isle & see what's available. I'd go w/ something that you can shoot lots, like a .30-06 or .308, instead of having to save all year for a box of .30-378. I love the .280, but a 7mm Rem Mag or 7-08 will probably be easier to feed...

...you can always get a little more esoteric in your cartridge choices next week, after you start reloading, but my top choices for a single rifle would be a 7mm Rem Mag or .300WSM if you can handle the recoil, which isn't much more than the .270 or .30-06, a 7-08, .308, .30-06 if you're sensitve to recoil...

...along w/ the other manufactures suggested, I'd add the Tikka T3 Lite & Browning A-Bolt, or CZ, & check the "used" rack for the "right one"...

..."Optics" is a whole'nother thread...

 

[Tytalus]

The 17s can be very accurate with good reach. Ammunition tends to be more limited and more expensive than what is available for the 22 rimfires. As an aside, almost any rifle in good condition can be made to shoot well with carefully constructed handloads. However, if you can't see what you're shooting at, you can't hit it. A good scope is at least as important as the rifle. One need not spend a fortune on a scope, but the scope must work well--tracking as elevation and windage is changed, allowing good eye relief, quality phase coatings to permit maximum light transmission, etc.

Thanks for the info! I've definitely got to buy a good one, it rains pretty bad where am, so not fogging up is pretty essential. This is something that I understand means getting at least a mid priced scope.

wildgene, thankyou for the useful information.

 

[Guy Miner]

Yes, here in the Pacific Northwest, there is plenty of rain & snow!

Properly cared for, any rifle will hold up to the weather, but rifles of stainless steel, with synthetic stocks or laminated wood stocks will resist the wet weather easier. Just another thought to add.

By the way - although I've got a couple of fairly powerful rifles - recoil really isn't your friend. It's easier to shoot a mild-recoiling rifle well. In recent years I've become more and more fond of the light-recoiling cartridges, particularly my .308 Win & .25-06 rifles.

Tytalus - thanks for the question. It's kind of fun helping with the basics like this.

Take a look at our existing Rifle and Hunting threads. You'll see all sorts of cool rifles, from bottom dollar stuff to very expensive custom rigs. We're all pretty proud of our individual rifles.

Regards, Guy

 

[Mortis]

Tytalus....

You have been given some excelent advice....

May I toss in a rifle brand that is just a tad more expensive then those mentioned but shoot great right out of the box.

CZ......

They are about equal in price to Winchester, at least in my area of the world. I've yet to see onhe that did not shoot wonderfully right out of the box.

Tikka is also another maker to look at. In my opinion, one of the smoothest, if not the most smoothest actions built. Again....a tad higher then others.

Shop around.......

Word of advice....... salesmen behind the counter are looking for noobs to make a big sale too.... the folks who posted before me are looking to get ya outfitted right the first time.

Those are the folks ya listen too.......me????..... I'm just a ghost in the computer.

 

[Oldtrader3]

I would buy a .22 LR and maybe a .17 or .22 WMR and learn to shoot. These will suit you well for small animals pelt collection and you will learn about the discipline of shooting and trigger control without spending a lot of money. I have a Savage 93 .22 WMR that I use for most pest shooting around the house. The rifle is about $250 US and is well enough made that you may want to keep it and mine is very accurate. It has the Savage Accutrigger which is a plus on a cheaper rifle. Plus, the ammo is not terribly expensive. I have a Leuold VX2 3-9x40 scope on mine and you can buy one on Ebay for about $125. They are about $300 new.

Ebay is a good way to get started for scopes and accesories or find a store that has used firearms and optics for sale.

 

[duckcreekdick]

Welcome to the forum, Ty. Dr. Mike is spot on with the idea of getting a .22 rifle first and learning the basics of shooting and firearm safety. Then you can begin to learn the fundamentals of hunting, the humane killing of game, the proper field care of game and finally, the tasty result at the supper table. A lot to learn and I think it is important to start at the bottom and quickly build up your expertise. I would suggest a local hunting mentor willing to teach you the fundamentals without boggling the mind with a lot of non-essential information.

 

[Anonymous]

You know, thinking about your question it occurs to me that I haven't messed with a factory rifle in a very long time that wouldn't shoot reasonably well enough for hunting.

Go to a large gun shop with a knowledgable counter staff (that might be an issue) and find one that fits your shoulder and your wallet and you likely won't go wrong. I truly hate "economy rifles" as I think price shouldn't be terribly important in something that's meant to last generations but a typical Ruger Hawkeye or Tikka T3 is a pretty decent example of "middle of the road".

As much as I'm a rifle nut and have some truly esoteric pieces- for a begning hunter you could pretty much buy any reasonable rifle in .30'06, top it with a Leupold 4x and be set for a very long time to come.

Don't overlook a good, bolt action .22LR....the hours I spent with one made me a rifleman and a better hunter. Much more so than any of my high powered rifles did.

 

[JD338]

Tytalus

Welcome to the forum, glad you are here.

You have been given some great advise and recommendations.

Go to a gun shop and look at the rim fire and center fire rifle selections. Pick the rifle that YOU like and what feels best for you. Do not let the sales guy push you into anything.
Once you have chosen a rim fire and center fire that you like, let us know what they are.
We will help fine tune what would work best for your needs. (Remember, we do not get paid for this as opposed to a sales clerk that may have some kind of incentive plan).

JD338

 

[Guest]

You've been given a lot of great advice. Definitely start with the 22lr as it will be easy to learn and cheap. The rifles mentioned are potentially good, and you should consider as well the Weatherby Vanguard as a viable rifle option when you get ready to go to a centerfire setup for coyotes/deer/bigger stuff. I'd suggest starting with something lighter in recoil - like a 270Win or 7mm-08 - as even the 30-06 is considered to have stiff recoil by many new shooters. Practice a lot, and if you can, use lighter bullets (which generally have less recoil). You should be able to find a wide range of bullet weights in either 270Win or 7mm-08.

 

[Tytalus]

Guys, thanks again for all the great information, the advice has been really helpful and filled in many gaps that I didn't get in previous research online. I'll let y'all know when I get a new gun.

Speaking of 0.22's, which models are easily modifiable?

 

[DrMike]

Probably the Ruger 10-22 has more after-market parts than most other rifles.

 

[Anonymous]

Probably the Ruger 10-22 has more after-market parts than most other rifles.

Yeah- you can do a lot to a 10-22 (and I have) but for a beginning rifleman a bolt action .22 is likely a better choice IMHO.

I bought my son a 10-22 "Youth" and have had a devil of a time teaching trigger control- the trigger is just that horrid. I know the 10-22 has a legion of fans and I've shot thousand upon thousands of rounds from mine but I have a hard time thinking of one as anything but a plinker.

For a while I had a matched up set of Kimbers- a .308 and .22. I shot several big game animals with the .308....but with the .22 I killed hundreds of small game animals. All that trigger and hunting time with the .22 turned me into a much more efficient hunter with basically the same rifle in .308.- same safety, general stock shape, same scope, sight picture, similar trigger. Lot to be said for that approach and some days I wish I still had that set up.

 

[runtohunt]

(+)1 for the bolt action .22. I would suggest that you contemplate a well made .22 with a decent trigger. I would also recommend going to as many different gun shops as possible to look at as many different rifles and hear different opinions. Good luck with your search