what do you guys think

[Sas874runner]

Ok. During elk season we hunted with a couple of guys who were shooting 300 wm. And some of you may know that this year I was carrying my new 300 rum. Well during a conversation around the camp fire I find out they were also handloaders. So we started to discuss the loads we were shooting out of our rifles.... stick with me this is where it gets interesting... so... come to find out their load was around 67 gr of 4350. And of course my question for them was if they tried another powder to gain so more velocity or if they were looking souly for accuracy. It really does not matter to me what they choose because it will do the job. Their response was... their group was around moa and they wanted velocity around 2750-2800 fps. Ok. Works for me. I know that cartridge is much more capable than that. So I asked why they wanted a WM over a30-06. IMO 30-06 is completely capable of this speed and accuracy with that weight bullet. And their answer to me was magnum rifles have more kiling energy!?!? :shock: so then they went further into depth. They explained how at this speed they would get better barrel life and accuracy than pushing it faster. My response was that energy would be no different than a 30-06 @ the same speed. And that barrel life would be better due to less powder down the barrel. Not to mention cost of reloading would be less due to less powder and cheaper cases. Now I could be completely out of line. But they proceeded to tell me if I slowed my speed in my rum down I could get better barrel life and accuracy as well as better killing energy because the bullet will not pass through completely. Mr response to that was if I wanted to shoot a standard round I would shoot my 30-06. Which was taken as my back up rifle. I then explained that if barrel life was a concern then I never would have bought a large over bore Magnum. All in all the conversation was very eye opening into how people view hand loading. What opinions do you fellas have on this.

 

[joelkdouglas]

I am in the same boat as you--I get 2750 fps out of my 30-06 (not a max load, but an accurate one) with 180 ABs and PTs, and I will probably kill elk, moose, caribou, deer, antelope, etc. with that load for many years to come. Takes about 58 or 59 grains of Hunter.

But if I were inclined to shoot a 300 mag, I sure wouldn't put 67 grains of any powder to get the same velocity I could out of my 30-06.

As for barrel life, I doubt anyone shooting a 300 mag will put enough rounds through the rifle to need a rebarrel. Even if the barrel only lasts 1500 rounds, that's a bunch for a 300 mag hunting rifle.

 

[nvbroncrider]

It's the age old problem of people not having a clue what they are talking about. It's kinda sad. Not to mention that at that load that 300 probably has a lot more recoil for the same down range performance.

 

[longrangehunter]

I remember a guy I met through Col. Greg Boddington that loaded ammo to those levels, Sam Sanjabi at Trophy Ammo in Chico, CA. He had once loaded all the ammo for Chet Brown of Brown Precision until he found out by his customers how under loaded he made his ammo.

Sam basically pushed the bullets well into the lands of each gun for the ammo he was making and reduced the load to a very safe pressure.... but to one caliber lower then what was written on the barrel! Ya, this guy pissed me off, he faxed over two different targets for two of my guns I couldn't get to shoot and lied about the velocity they were moving at! Well lets just say I was very displeased my 300 WM was nothing more then a 30-06 with his ammo and my 280 remington was reduced to a 7x57 Mauser!

I vowed to never again trust my faith in someone's own self interest when I thought this guy must known a hell of a lot more then me to make those guns shoot so well? Ya, they did shoot great, but at the expense of velocity and ft. lbs. of energy. What got me shaking my head was the fact he lied to my face and in writing about what I was getting for my hard earned money! I did sell those guns shortly after that, at least the 280 Remington ammo I was able to save for fire forming into 280 AI brass... I still use those loads he made, only for practice!

 

[Sas874runner]

For a bit I kinda felt like an ass but I thought about it and realized in the end its not my rifle and if that's how he chooses to load for it then that is his Loss. He is well under utilizing the capabilities of the cartridge. It just seemed to me that maybe there was something I was missing. And for only moa I'm sure that the sendaro can shoot much better than that

 

[Guy Miner]

I'm guessing you guys are talking 180 gr bullets?

Haven't seen a bullet weight in Sas874runner's posts, but am guessing it's 180's.

And yes, I like loading to the full potential of the cartridge, or nearly so. Have to confess though, with my .375, the minimum load & 260 gr bullets shoot so well.... That I rarely go hotter & heavier.

Guy

 

[DrMike]

I'm with you on this. They are effectively shooting a 30-06, though paying for a 300WM.

 

[Sas874runner]

Yes sorry. They were shooting 180 ballistic tips

 

[SJB358]

If I am running a 300 Win Mag, I want it to run like one, at least to it's capability.. I don't need loose primers pockets or locked up bolts, but there's no sense in goofing around.. I am with you SAS, if they are happy with em, seems like there is little change..

 

[Sas874runner]

Thanks. I feel better about saying what I said. I makes sense in my eyes. But to each his own. And in the other hand I don't believe they knew much about what they were saying. Seeing as they were saying that the 300wm had more killing energy than a 30-06. With the load they were using they had no more or less energy than a 30-06 with the same bullet weight and velocity.

 

[SJB358]

Nah, same old story, people trying say bullets kill better when they stay inside an animal. I've found no such thing to be the case. Plus, how do you guarantee a bullet to stay inside at one angle on a deer stay inside the next deer or whatever you shoot? Just seems like things folks say in their head and make it fact.

 

[Sas874runner]

Exactly! And if that were true the Partition would never have become bullet that its is. And the AccuBond would not be as good of a bullet as it is. Same goes for the monolithic bullets e-tip and Barnes bullets. All these bullets almost always pass through even when contacting heavy bone. And all these bullets have killed countless critters

 

[cloverleaf]

Read something recently, that went somthing like this: "The Ultra Mags give you a 5% increase in velocity for 15% more powder..." I may misquote the numbers but that was the Jist. All that said, Dad didnt run his 7 Mag to full potential. I'd be willing to bet his pet load with 130 Gr speer could have been duplicated by the 7mm-08. As he put it "it took me a few years and a couple pounds of powder (and some ruptured cases) to figure out I didnt need a Max load to shoot flat and fast enough". No doubt he still out performed the 30-30 300yds but thats not really a comparison. Just my .02

 

[Elkman]

Thanks. I feel better about saying what I said. I makes sense in my eyes. But to each his own. And in the other hand I don't believe they knew much about what they were saying. [/quote
You are exactly right on with your thoughts. Mass and speed are a constant, move it faster it hits harder, move it slower and the opposite occurs. I am sure that there are some limits but not in todays world of rifles and bullets. If the 300 WM was not a stellar performer, it would not be rated as one of the top 5 Elk Cartridges. The 06 has been the most favorite elk cartridge for many years, but the 300 WM or one of its ballistic clones will soon pass it in popularity.

 

[Sas874runner]

Clover. I don't own a wm nor have i loaded for it so I'm not sure what actual speeds should be with a180 out of the 300 wm. But it is an excellent cartridge and a well known one at that. The rum is not near as well known. But my load with 180 ab is averaging around 3480 fps. I think the wm should be I'm the relm of 3150 w/ a180. Don't hold me to that though. As much as I wish the rum was a more well known cartridge I kind of like when I tell an average Joe that I shoot a 300 rum and they look at me like I made it up.

 

[fwood]

F = M(A) pretty simple, after that it gets a lot more complicated.

Fwood