Why a guide?

[Guy Miner]

Please do not misunderstand me - I'm not anti-guide. That disclaimer in place... I thought this a good place to ask, as I suspect there are guides/outfitters who post here, and I know there are hunters here who use those services. Past my 50th birthday, I thought to treat myself to my first guided big game trip in 2007. For a variety of reasons beyond the control of me or my intended outfitter, that planned guided hunt fell through.

Now as I contemplate the results of 2007 & past years, and look forward to 2008 and beyond I have to ask myself... Why a guide?

Doing my research for hunts I learned that (this year at least) around $2800 for a mule deer hunt and $4500+ for an elk hunt is about normal. This is of course in addition to what is a fairly expensive non-resident tag, and other associated costs such as transportation, taxidermy and possibly meat processing... All inclusive it's pretty easy to end up spending $4000 to hunt mule deer or $6000+ to hunt elk in our western states.

What is a hunter paying for? What does he get for his several thousand dollars? How then is disaster best avoided and success best assured? I already have some of my own answers in mind, but thought this could spark an interesting, and hopefully valuable discussion.

Thanks, Guy

 

[Bruce Mc]

Guy, I don't have a lot of experience with guided hunts but I did pony up for a guided antelope hunt in Wyoming a couple years ago. Frankly I chose the antelope because it was the cheapest with the highest success rate. It had been a number of years since I had been out of Texas hunting and I didn't want to spend any time spinning my wheels. I wanted something on the wall. I did a lot of reference checking and believe I made a good choice. I ended up with a terrific trophy and a really fun time. I wish Wyoming weren't so dang far from Texas. I really loved the country up there. On the more practical side I also leaned toward using an outfitter because I don't own a four wheel drive pickup. Using a outfitter is sometimes neccessary because a lot of folks just don't have the equipment needed for a hunt away from home. I went into the hunt expecting the outfitter or guide to provide me with a good location to hunt, away from the public crowd, and a better than even chance of taking a good trophy and all the equipment needed to get me there. Except my trusty Model 70 of course.

 

[R Flowers]

I will try to be brief here, but there are lots of reasons to use a guide.

Sometimes using a guide (read that as landowner) is the only way to get a tag in that area. Using landowner tags is a great thing since you do not have to get lucky in a draw.

Using a guide is usually a good thing in that they know the area and where the game is likely to be. They know the games habits, etc. I once had a Wyoming guide tell me that when he made a drive to me that the game would come right down one specific draw. He was right, they came right where he said they would.

A guide usually has equipment that you do not. That may be a pack horse or it may be a winch in the back of a 4X4 pickup. I have had guides use both to get my elk out. (Something I could never do alone, they are huge!)

Most guides are good at spotting game and know the country better than we ever will. Most of them live there.

Sure, there are lousy guides, to be sure. But most are hard working people who want their clients to get some game.

I live in CA where we shoot a lot of hogs. I mean a lot of hogs. But every so often I treat myself to a guided hog hunt just cause it is lots of fun. Those guys have areas that generally have LOTS of hogs. You get to shoot and they pretty much take care of the game for you. (gutting and skinning, etc.) One guy I hunted with a couple of years ago told me that his clients kill over 400 hogs a year. That is a lot of hogs! He has 19 properties leased that the average guy could NEVER get permission to hunt on, ever!

So, guided hunting can be a good thing. It is not for everybody, but it is a good deal if you can scrape up the money. You just have to be a little carefull. I was about to sign up for an elk hunt for this next winter till I found out the license fees and the fact that there is no meat cutting facility close by, and that on the hunt we were considering they only got one elk for four guys last year.

Just get LOTS of references or hunt with somebody that a friend has used, etc. etc.

 

[Colin]

I can back R Flowers up. I live right down the road, in Clovis. He is right about the hog hunting stuff here in CA. I've heard great stories and just as many nightmare stories about guides. My buddy drove all the way to New Mexico from California to have his guide tell him he couldn't do the hunt and was not able to refund any of the money. Another buddy showed up in an area "full" of nice Mulie bucks. Guide was lazy, not to mention he never saw a legal buck, nor did any of the other clients.

I did go along on a guided Aoudad hunt in Texas. That was awesome! Guide was great, lodging was great, animals were great. Exeeded our expectations. He treated us to a steak dinner at a very nice resturaunt along with MANY whiskey drinks. Now that was fun. My buddy that goes on numerous guided hunts a year has reserved himself to going through Cabellas after the New Mexico hunt fell through. He's had very good luck with their guides.

 

[flyfish]

I think the others have covered it well but I will add my 2 cents.
I decided a while back that I wanted to take (TRY :roll: ) an elk with archery equipment. This will be a once in a life time trip so I figured my only real option if I was going to have any chance of success was to use an outfitter/guide. They know the area, they have the equipment and the experience. Obviously there are NO guarantees but I did some checking and talked with people who used them and talked/emailed the outfitter. I feel comfortable with who I picked. They weren't the most expensive but they are no way the cheapest either. I'm only going this way once so I'm willing to spend the money and luckily I'm able to do it. For me I uust did feel is was practicle or feasable to do this type of hunt on my own.

Finding a guide can be a gamble but I think if you look at what's out there, check references and talk with the guide/outfitter directly you can get a sense of what they are about. Basically do your home work. Talk with other and from their experiences (good and bad) you can get some ideas on what to ask and what to look for.

 

[dakotaelkslayer]

Why a guide? They are a great shortcut for people for whom time, not money, is a premium.
I recently moved to Idaho. Had a couple of buddies from ND come out bowhunting elk with me down in the Sawtooths. Lots of logistics, lots of time "scouting" on the internet and on maps. Then there was the setting of of camp, cooking, etc. These are all things that a guided hunter doesn't have to concern themselves with; which would be rather nice! :grin: That being said, my buddies can come out every year for the next ten years for 10 day trips for the same price that ONE guided 5-day hunt would cost them.
....yup, time or money?

Jim

 

[Jar Head]

Good conversation topic Guy! I agree with some of the replies to your question. I am lucky to live in a state that has a lot of public lands with a wide variety of game animals. I spend a good amount of time exploring Oregon to become familiar with areas I want to hunt so a guide would not be something I would want to spend my money on; however, if I were to draw a Oregon sheep tag I would hire a guide even though I may be savy with the hunting grounds I would want to increase my chances of filling a once in a life time tag. I can come home empty handed from an elk hunt & not loose too much sleep over it as I know that I will always have next year, some guy in Alabama or where ever might not have that next year for what ever reason. I do not want to sound like a boob but living in a state with a lot of public lands is really nice for the indipendent hunter.

Take care fellas & Happy Holidays!
Jar Head

 

[c-ne-elk]

I am lucky to have great elk hunting practacally in my back yard. When I draw a tag in my home state I spend 5 times as much time scouting before the season as I do hunting.

If you live quite a distance from an area that you are going to hunt, do the math. Say you draw a elk tag here in New Mexico, the seasons for muzzleloaders and rifles are 5 days long. That's it. You may be lucky to draw a bull tag in New Mexico every 7 to 8 years, IF YOU ARE LUCKY.

Guy, you said you are past your 50th birthday so the next time you draw one of these primo elk tags you will be 60ish? How well will you be able to go up and down STEEP mountains at 8,000 to 9,000 ft in altitude when you are 60?

A few people get "lucky" and stumble on an elk next to the road or in the first place they look but that's usually not the case.

So if you only have 5 days to hunt and live too far away to do any serious scouting before you come out to hunt you had better not used up all your luck in drawing the tag.

Even in the best area's, the elk/deer aren't behind every tree.

While I elk hunt most every year without a guide in my home state when I drew a Wyoming Bull Moose tag this year I hired a guide. 20 years ago, I lived in Wyoming and I have hunted up there many times since I moved.

But...I am 51 years old, it took me 9 years of preference points to get a moose tag, it takes more and more preference points every year to draw a moose tag. Now that I have killed a moose, I have to wait 5 years before I can even put in for a preference point. At best, it will be another 15 years before I could even HOPE to draw a Wyoming moose tag. That would make me 66 years old at the minimum.

It's a long way to Wyoming from New Mexico, no way I would be able to scout for a moose. And many area's of Wyoming are considered Wilderness Areas. Wyoming State Law requires that Non-Residents have a guide when hunting in a Wilderness area

So it was a no-brainer for me. I hired a guide and was not sorry. I got my once in a life time moose AND I had a GREAT wilderness experience! I have been hunting the mountains for over 25 years but I learned a heck of a lot from my outfitter/guide on this hunt. (He has been outfitting for 31 years)

Was the hunt any less rewarding than my do-it-yourself elk hunts? No! Was it DIFFERENT than the do it yourself hunt I am use to? Yes.
Was it fun? HELL YEAH!
Will I do it every year? No

You get more from an outfitter/guide than just the possibility of increased success.

You are not waited on hand and foot on all guided hunts like some people think. You still have to work for your animal. It became a challange to me on my hunt to spot game before my guide.

It's still a great outdoor/hunting EXPERIENCE (though it is "different" than a do it yourself hunt) and that is what we are all after isin't it?

 

[Greg Nolan]

Guy
It's all said and done. If you live close or have lots of time a guide is a waste of money. BUT!!! If you live far away and want to get into animals now it's cheap. I've hunted Idaho for 15 years and was to retire there( Things happen) but I don't have the up to date picture of where the animals are this year and what controlled burns and wolves are going on etc. I still havn't hired a guide there but then I've only killed one elk and 3 deer there in all those years. I felt pretty smug a few times and pretty foolish a few times. It's all about time. If I could hunt the whole season and pick the days that were the best, weather, moon and migration wise I'd be a heck of a great hunter. My age is about 60 and I find a guided hunt (I've only been on one) is not that bad cost and time wise when I consider the money I've spent on non guided hunts that have been dismal due to conditions I couldn't forcast eight or ten months ahead of time. I still go it alone most of the time but a guided hunts from time to time will give me success I couldn't of achieved alone. Even if it just meant I could hunt way back in on foot where the animals get pushed to and have a way of getting the meat out. That's always a consideration. You hear about how most hunters never get more than a half a mile from the road. It aint always because they are too lazy to walk it's sometimes because they are considering how they are going to get the meat out before it spoils. THATS WHY YOU MIGHT HIRE A GUIDE!!!!
Good Hunting
Elkhunt :grin:

 

[Guy Miner]

Thanks for the great stuff guys!

I first got interested in the while guided hunt idea about six or seven years ago when I drew a non-resident elk tag for Wyoming. I'd applied for the drawing at the urging of a friend who was a Wyoming resident and a very experienced elk hunter.

Hunting with him was much like having a guide - and I started truly understanding why a hunter might want a guide...

1. I'd never been up in those mountains before - but he'd been hunting them for over 20 years. Knowledge. BTW - in Wyoming a non-resident is required by law to hunt with a guide or with a Wyoming resident in the Wilderness areas.

2. I'd never seriously hunted elk before - but he had been doing so for 20+ years. More knowledge.

3. At the trailhead we saddled up his horses and mules and headed in for nine miles to camp. Like I have horses and mules and all the stuff that goes with them? Yes, I could have backpacked in like I do on high-country mule deer hunts - but the horses made life easier in many ways. BTW - camp was at about 9,000' ASL - which was tough on me since I live pretty close to sea level.

4. Camp consisted of a large canvas wall-tent with a wood stove, a card table with a few chairs, a couple of inflatable mattresses and a couple of coolers. Far more comfortable than anything I could have backpacked in. Every night it was great to have that big air mattress and warm tent to sleep in. Every morning it took only a few minutes with the wood burning stove and we had a warm tent and hot breakfast. Again, much nicer than my little one or two-man backpacking setup.

5. My buddy knew where to go to look for elk. We spent a couple of days there, before the season opened, looking for elk. He found them. That's BIG country - and a guy could spend a lot of time hiking around w/o ever seeing any elk. On opening morning - this was a September/rut hunt - my buddy knew how much and when to bugle. TWO bulls answered and started working towards us. I shot the bigger one, a nice 6x6.

6. A bull elk is a LOT bigger than any deer I've ever killed - downright massive there on the ground. Again, my buddy had a real slick way of dealing with the hide, and quartering it right there, into man-packable pieces. After we got that chore done, I moved the elk chunks down to a place where the pack animals could get to them, and he brought the animals in from camp a mile or so away. We ended up taking the pieces of elk back to camp that day, then horse-packing them nine miles to the trailhead the next morning. Like I could have done that on my frame pack?

There you have it - my buddy substituted for a guide. He had the knowledge, and the tools, to do a far better job of elk hunting than I could have ever pulled off. Unfortunately for my further elk hunting dreams, he's moved away from Wyoming... This kind of stuff that my friend had all figured out is what a hunter would pay a guide/outfitter to handle.

Mostly it boils down to using their knowledge and their gear. He had 20+ years of hunting experience in that particular area, I had none. He had horses, mules, a wall tent, and all the stuff to make an extended stay in the wilderness comfortable.

I think there's a lot of valid reasons to hire a guide.

Regards, Guy