Why I Love My 358Win

[bullet]

Now first of all I am not recoil sensitive as can be seen by my targets shooting my 300Win Mag. The 300Win Mag will get some folks attention because recoil with just a 165gr bullet can be more than some want.

Here is recoil of my 165gr HPBT deer load in my 300Win Mag.

Bullet Dia (in): 0.308
Case Length (in): 2.620
Case Volume (gr H2O): 86.4
Muzzle velocity (ft/sec): 3161
Bullet Wt (gr): 165
Charge Weight (gr): 74
Barrel Length (in): 24
Firearm Weight (lb): 7.50
Free recoil energy is 31.1 ft-lb. (42.2 Joule)

The 300Win Mag does hit hard and really shakes the animal as it is slamming it to the ground in a lot of cases especially deer, hogs and black bear.

My 358Win does not do that to game, they just seem to collapse and drop to the ground. It is interesting to note the difference in the field between these two cartridges. There is obviously a lot of dynamic shock with the 300Win Mag and a lot of momentum and frontal area with the heavier bullet in the 358Win. They seem to act differently as far as terminal results are concerned, which can be seen by the way game act when hit, at least that is what I have observed over the last five years using both of these cartridges each hunting season.

But what is so cool with the 358win is the less free recoil energy and how easy it is to shoot when using a much heavier bullet. It really is a lot of fun to shoot at the range and to carry in the field and watch an animal just collapse like a house of cards. I do love this cartridge and always have been impressed with the accuracy of my specific out of the box Ruger Hawkeye Blued/Wood version.

Here is the recoil of my 225gr Sierra G/K SBT deer load.

Bullet Dia (in): 0.358
Case Length (in): 2.015
Case Volume (gr H2O): 57.3
Muzzle velocity (ft/sec): 2464
Bullet Wt (gr): 225
Charge Weight (gr): 47
Barrel Length (in): 22
Firearm Weight (lb): 7.50
Free recoil energy is 23.7 ft-lb. (32.1 Joule)

Yes, I think this is one of the most under rated black timber, dense woods, thick swamp cartridges around. As the Lord is my witness, so far everything I have shot with my 358Win has dropped right were I shot it. Now all my shots have been under 200yds so far.

It is not a fast cartridge although on tough game I can choose to use my 225gr AccuBond, 225gr Partition or Hawk with TAC powder traveling over 2500fps but these are not as accurate as the above load.

I am fascinated with guns, all kinds of guns, and especially all kinds of rifle cartridges, but the 358Win has won my affection. If at all possible, due to terrain and conditions that I know about, I tend to reach for my 358Win. Cool cartridge indeed.

Here is a link to my full article on the 358Win http://ammoguide.com/?article=mhsp68/358

 

[taylorce1]

I think you have the case capacity off by about 100+ grains on the .358 Win. That said I agree with you, I have a Savage 99 in .358 Win, and it is an awesome little rifle. Can't wait to actually take some game with the rifle.

 

[JD338]

The 358 Win is a big stick in a small bundle.

JD338

 

[DrMike]

For sure, the .358 Win is a highly underrated cartridge that works far better than it should. Case capacity ~57.0 grains of H2O.

 

[bullet]

taylor you are right, and JD the 358 Win is a big stick in a small bundle for sure, and DrMike, far better than it should, well said and yes Case capacity ~57.0 grains of H2O.

 

[BK]

OK, you just forced me to put my .358 higher on the list of things to get to.

You think anybody will look at me funny if I show up at the range with a .358 Winchester and a .257 Weatherby? :shock:

 

[bullet]

OK, you just forced me to put my .358 higher on the list of things to get to.

You think anybody will look at me funny if I show up at the range with a .358 Winchester and a .257 Weatherby? :shock:

Not at all, they will know that you understand what balance is all about. I have a saying that fits my 358win "one round and game is down"

 

[SJB358]

I love the 358 as well Mike. I've only taken a few deer with mine but with a 225gr PT at 2450 it is plenty strong enough for me. The 35's as a whole are awesome cartridges. From the 35 Rem to the 358 Mags, they are excellent game rounds. Scotty

 

[bbearhntr]

Very interesting data tables, thanks for sharing. Where does a fellow find a program to compute those numbers?

Very handsome looking rifle 8)

 

[JD338]

BK,

What about a 358 Win Mag aka 35 Whelen. :mrgreen:

JD338

 

[bullet]

Very interesting data tables, thanks for sharing. Where does a fellow find a program to compute those numbers?

Very handsome looking rifle 8)

A friend of mine developed this calculator for recoil, we have been testing it and it is finished but not publish on a site yet. As soon as it is I will give folks a link to it.

 

[bbearhntr]

Very interesting data tables, thanks for sharing. Where does a fellow find a program to compute those numbers?

Very handsome looking rifle 8)

A friend of mine developed this calculator for recoil, we have been testing it and it is finished but not publish on a site yet. As soon as it is I will give folks a link to it.

Very cool can't wait :grin:

 

[Guy Miner]

A very serious elk hunting buddy of mine, who can afford any doggone rifle he wants, has killed most of his elk with a .358 Win, Browning BLR with a little Aimpoint red-dot sight on it. I think he's up to at least 17 or 18 elk with that rifle now. Along with a couple of black bears and a few deer.

He's on horseback a lot, and the little .358 is well suited for that. He calls it "Thumper."

 

[bullet]

A very serious elk hunting buddy of mine, who can afford any doggone rifle he wants, has killed most of his elk with a .358 Win, Browning BLR with a little Aimpoint red-dot sight on it. I think he's up to at least 17 or 18 elk with that rifle now. Along with a couple of black bears and a few deer.

He's on horseback a lot, and the little .358 is well suited for that. He calls it "Thumper."

That is so cool, that is exactly how to describe the 358Win "Thumper" :mrgreen:

 

[BK]

BK,

What about a 358 Win Mag aka 35 Whelen. :mrgreen:

JD338

How's this one?

 

[bullet]

I would much rather have a 358 Norma Mag

 

[bullet]

Here is a PM I received and I asked if he would mind if I posted it without his name and it shows how we have some traditional myths that have persisted through the years.

I am actually surprised. Had never thought much about it but assumed the 358 exceeded the 300 WinMag with recoil. That's good information. Thanks!

Even when driving a 250gr Partition at 2300fps I am way less than a 300Win Mag with a 165gr bullet. A calculator for recoil can dispel a lot of traditional myths that have been floating around for years. In fact a 30-06 with a 220gr bullet moving 2450fps has more recoil than a 358Win pushing a 250gr bullet at 2300fps. And when you consider that my 358Win is pushing a 225gr bullet at 2464fps and has less recoil than a 30-06 with a 220gr bullet, it removes a lot of that nonsense that was foster through the years that the 358Win kicked to much.

30-06 220gr bullet
Bullet Dia (in): 0.308
Case Length (in): 2.494
Case Volume (gr H2O): 67.1
Muzzle velocity (ft/sec): 2450
Bullet Wt (gr): 220
Charge Weight (gr): 53
Barrel Length (in): 22
Firearm Weight (lb): 7.50
Free recoil energy is 24.9 ft-lb. (33.7 Joule)

358Win 250gr bullet
Bullet Dia (in): 0.358
Case Length (in): 2.015
Case Volume (gr H2O): 57.3
Muzzle velocity (ft/sec): 2300
Bullet Wt (gr): 250
Charge Weight (gr): 47
Barrel Length (in): 22
Firearm Weight (lb): 7.50
Free recoil energy is 24.7 ft-lb. (33.5 Joule)

 

[taylorce1]

BK,

What about a 358 Win Mag aka 35 Whelen. :mrgreen:

JD338

I've got both and I'd much rather shoot the .358 Win over my Whelen. The .358 Win is just a much more pleasnt round to shoot, plus it has all the power most hunters will ever need IMO. The only time I'd prefer to carry my Whelen is when I want to run 250+ grain bullets in giant bear country.

The .358 diameter cartridges are all dismissed to readily IMO. I'll really let you know my opinions when I finally connect with some big game with either rifle. However I find both to be accurate and easy to load for.

 

[PJGunner]

BK,

What about a 358 Win Mag aka 35 Whelen. :mrgreen:

JD338

I have both. Actually, I have 4 rifles in .358 Win. and three in .35 Whelen with two more Whelens in the planning stage. :shock: There used to be a fifth .358 but someoe made me an offer I could not refuse. Two are tang safety Ruger M77s, a Browning BLR and a Savage M99. The Whelens are a Ruger M77RS tang safety, a Remington M700 Classic and last, my very nice custom on an Oberndorf Mauser with a 1 in 14" twist barrel.
My big gripes on the two Ruger .358s, the Remington 700 and the Ruger M77RS is they all have 1 in 16" twist barrels. Dunno what they were thinking but IMHO they all had their heads in warm dark odiferous places. :x The Savage and browning have proper 1 in 12" twists and my planned nxt Whelens will be based on a Husqvarna M640 FN style Mauser action and a Ruger #1 single shot, both new rifle will have proper 1 in 12" twist barrels.
If you get the impression I like the .35 calibers, you're right. Some people have the feeling that the .358 is a hard kicker. Not so. certain gunwriters felt it was a bit rough on the shoulder and was nothing mre that a short range brush gun. methinks, based on shooting the guns above that aid gunwriters (Eggspurts?) are full of prunes.
Paul B.

 

[bullet]

My Ruger Hawkeye has 1-12 twist

Ok so the recoil force is the same between the 358 with stand weight loads and a very heavy bullet in the 30-06. I would say that 99% of all 30-06 shooters never go higher than 180gr. At that 180gr bullet weight I would bet that the 30-06 kicks less. Many shooters find the 30-06 with the 180gr all the fun they want in the recoil department. I have killed Elk with the 180gr in a Nosler Partition and would have been willing to go after anything this side of Brown Bear with the load. In an emergency I know the 30-06 shooting 180s would work on a big Brown Bear, but those wonderful animals are what Magnums are for in my opinion.

So I gave him a comparison, I did not hear back from him.

180gr 30-06
Bullet Dia (in): 0.308
Case Length (in): 2.494
Case Volume (gr H2O): 67.1
Muzzle velocity (ft/sec): 2800
Bullet Wt (gr): 180
Charge Weight (gr): 57
Barrel Length (in): 22
Firearm Weight (lb): 7.50

Free recoil energy is 24.3 ft-lb. (32.9 Joule)


Here is the 30-06 with a 165gr bullet
Bullet Dia (in): 0.308
Case Length (in): 2.494
Case Volume (gr H2O): 67.1
Muzzle velocity (ft/sec): 2950
Bullet Wt (gr): 165
Charge Weight (gr): 59
Barrel Length (in): 22
Firearm Weight (lb): 7.50

165gr 30-06 Free recoil energy is 23.9 ft-lb. (32.4 Joule)

225gr in a 358Win Free recoil energy is 23.7 ft-lb. (32.1 Joule)

Above velocity samples come from my load development in my rifles with the 30-06