why magnums?

[longguner]

I was just curious why some folks go with magnum cartridges verses the standard .30-06 or .270 for long range big game hunting?

I see the energy charts, from Noslers 6th edition, pretty much show the heavier bullets hold up against the lighter mag bullets... and the 06 and 270 doesn't lag to far behind.

Thoughts?

 

[RiverRider]

There are two sides of the argument, but my thoughts are that there's no need for a belted cartridge at all. From .25-05 up to the .35 Whelen, the '06-based cartridges can do it all---and with considerably more efficiency.

When you say "long range hunting" I take it to mean shooting from 600 to 800 yards, or further. In my mind, you'll need to know your range and the trajectory of your bullet whether you're shooting a 2900 fps cartridge or a 3400 fps cartridge. A miss is a miss with either one.

The operative word here is need though...some folks WANT belted mags, and I say more power to 'em. Pun intended. :mrgreen:

 

[Silent Sam]

There is a lot more to it than just energy.

 

[DrMike]

We go with magnums because we can. Do they kill any deader? No, but they can extend reach, and for some people that is pretty important. In other instances, magnums permit the use of more mass on target at higher velocities, which translates out to kinetic energy. The bottom line is that people enjoy using different cartridges just to be challenged by something a little different.

 

[longguner]

We go with magnums because we can. Do they kill any deader? No, but they can extend reach, and for some people that is pretty important. In other instances, magnums permit the use of more mass on target at higher velocities, which translates out to kinetic energy. The bottom line is that people enjoy using different cartridges just to be challenged by something a little different.

magnums permit the use of more mass on target at higher velocities,

150 grain .270 bullet has the same mass as a .338 200 grain bullet and both run our of steam at 600 yards with the same veloctiy.

I'm sure Jack and Elmer had the same bouts!! LOL

extend reach

not from what I see from the velocity and energy charts.

We go with magnums because we can

The bottom line is that people enjoy using different cartridges just to be challenged by something a little different.

Thanks for being honest Dr.Mike.....

 

[onesonek]

We go with magnums because we can. Do they kill any deader? No, but they can extend reach, and for some people that is pretty important. In other instances, magnums permit the use of more mass on target at higher velocities, which translates out to kinetic energy. The bottom line is that people enjoy using different cartridges just to be challenged by something a little different.

I agree,,bout as well put as any!

 

[FOTIS]

Extended range mainly. Additionally there are some "hunters" out there that will put the last shot in the animal after you basically made a perfect shot but ran 100 yards. Here in WY we have personal knowledge of this. With my 378's 416's etc DRT.

 

[Richracer1]

Like DrMike said, more energy. I like having all 4 Ultra Mags because I can. In addition, I was in a situation 2 years ago when I got my 4x4 elk using my 375RUM w/260ABs. I still believe that if I'd had anything less than my 338RUM or even my 300RUM, I would've had to track that bull much much further than the 100 or so yrds he went, or worse yet, possibly even lost him. This wasn't even remotely close to long range either.

 

[longguner]

Rich.....

So even with an ultra mag you had problems. What kind of shot placement did you have? Fotis said
"after a perfect shot"...... to me that's saying in the boiler room. I never had a deer run more than
10 yards. I know a deer is not the same. I heard of a 7mm-08 drop a elk nose first.

 

[FOTIS]

longguner

This was a goat I shot a few years ago. Took out the WHOLE boiler room and she ran 136 yards with no heart or lungs to speak of and dropped.
http://noslerreloading.com/phpBB2/viewt ... f=5&t=2691

 

[longguner]

Looks like to me you shot it broad side on the right side and it exited on the left front chest area?

So it was quartering away right? Shooting down an incline?

 

[longguner]

longguner

This was a goat I shot a few years ago. Took out the WHOLE boiler room and she ran 136 yards with no heart or lungs to speak of and dropped.
http://noslerreloading.com/phpBB2/viewt ... f=5&t=2691

looks like an antelope to me.

 

[Richracer1]

Rich.....

So even with an ultra mag you had problems. What kind of shot placement did you have? Fotis said
"after a perfect shot"...... to me that's saying in the boiler room. I never had a deer run more than
10 yards. I know a deer is not the same. I heard of a 7mm-08 drop a elk nose first.

Not what I said. This is a quote from my previous post,"I still believe that if I'd had anything less than my 338RUM or even my 300RUM, I would've had to track that bull much much further than the 100 or so yards he went, or worse yet, possibly even lost him".

The shot was not one of my better ones and I'll leave it at that.

A bull moose took a 250AB from my 338RUM through the heart last fall, went about 6 - 10 feet then fell over. He was about 175 yds away and the bullet did not exit.

FWIW, I'm using a 308 Win and a 30-06 this fall for muley and antlerless elk. I may bring the 270WSM along just in case - plus it hasn't been out hunting for a while.

 

[longguner]

Rich.....

So even with an ultra mag you had problems. What kind of shot placement did you have? Fotis said
"after a perfect shot"...... to me that's saying in the boiler room. I never had a deer run more than
10 yards. I know a deer is not the same. I heard of a 7mm-08 drop a elk nose first.

Not what I said. This is a quote from my previous post,"I still believe that if I'd had anything less than my 338RUM or even my 300RUM, I would've had to track that bull much much further than the 100 or so yards he went, or worse yet, possibly even lost him".

The shot was not one of my better ones and I'll leave it at that.

A bull moose took a 250AB from my 338RUM through the heart last fall, went about 6 - 10 feet then fell over. He was about 175 yds away and the bullet did not exit.

He was about 175 yds away and the bullet did not exit

Even with all that extra energy? Maybe a ordinary soft point would be the ticket..... Partitions?

The shot was not one of my better ones and I'll leave it at that.

I knew it was all about shot placement, and not more power.

 

[longguner]

Like DrMike said, more energy. I like having all 4 Ultra Mags because I can. In addition, I was in a situation 2 years ago when I got my 4x4 elk using my 375RUM w/260ABs. I still believe that if I'd had anything less than my 338RUM or even my 300RUM, I would've had to track that bull much much further than the 100 or so yrds he went, or worse yet, possibly even lost him. This wasn't even remotely close to long range either.

Like DrMike said, more energy.

And you got it, but no exit?

 

[DrMike]

Pound for pound, elk may just qualify as one of the toughest game animals in North America. They can cover an amazing amount of territory after they are technically dead. When hunting grizzly, there is no question but that a 22-250 will kill one, if the shot is put in the right place; and I've definitely witnessed them die very quickly when shot with an arrow. However, when everything goes wrong, as it will eventually, the more frontal area, the greater the mass, and the higher the velocity becomes a matter of great comfort for the hunter than dared agitate the bruin. In such a situation, a magnum--a BIG magnum--becomes a matter of considerable comfort.

 

[Richracer1]

Rich.....

So even with an ultra mag you had problems. What kind of shot placement did you have? Fotis said
"after a perfect shot"...... to me that's saying in the boiler room. I never had a deer run more than
10 yards. I know a deer is not the same. I heard of a 7mm-08 drop a elk nose first.

Not what I said. This is a quote from my previous post,"I still believe that if I'd had anything less than my 338RUM or even my 300RUM, I would've had to track that bull much much further than the 100 or so yards he went, or worse yet, possibly even lost him".

The shot was not one of my better ones and I'll leave it at that.

A bull moose took a 250AB from my 338RUM through the heart last fall, went about 6 - 10 feet then fell over. He was about 175 yds away and the bullet did not exit.

He was about 175 yds away and the bullet did not exit

Even with all that extra energy? Maybe a ordinary soft point would be the ticket..... Partitions?

I primarily I shoot Accubonds - why fix what isn't broken.

The shot was not one of my better ones and I'll leave it at that.

I knew it was all about shot placement, and not more power.

Your still missing my point - if it weren't for the huge amount of energy the 375RUM, 338RUM or 300RUM can produce - it's possible I might have lost the elk because of the shot placement.

 

[Guy Miner]

Why magnums?

Why not?

Most of my shooting has been with mild cartridges like the .22 long rifle, .223, and the .308 Win. Most of my hunting has been with the 6mm Rem, .25-06, .308 and .30-06. BUT - I do like to mess around with more punch sometimes.

A magnum is simply a more powerful cartridge. Just like a .30-06 is more powerful than a .308 Win, a .300 Win mag is more powerful than a .30-06. Higher velocity with the same bullet weight. That's fine.

I think men have been after more power in their rifles for a long time. Lewis and Clark commented on the terrible "white bears" when they ran into grizzlies as they came west across the plains. They gave accounts of terrific battles with bears absorbing many hits from their standard eastern muzzle loaders.

Eventually the Hawken and other larger-bore muzzle loaders were created - to better deal with larger game like bison & grizzly. I'd still rather have a .375 H&H than a .308 Win if I was after grizzly!

Magnums are not exactly a new concept either. The .375 H&H Magnum is 100 years old this year. Hardly a Johnny Come Lately. It's proven to be a very useful hunting cartridge. Or why would it still be around? The .300 H&H mag was in use by the 1930's - to give added long range punch, reduced wind drift (by kicking out heavy bullets at higher velocity) and the rest follow suit. It's no big deal.

There is a point of diminishing returns of course. A .300 Rem Ultra Mag holds nearly twice the amount of powder as a .308 Win but doesn't generate nearly twice the muzzle velocity. Just a few hundred more FPS.

Remember the kid who could throw a stone farther and faster when we were kids? He had a magnum arm.

How about the archer who could pull a 70# bow while the rest of us settled on 55 pound recurves? He had a magnum bow. Heavier arrows, moving faster.

It's the same concept with rifles and handguns. Just a little more oomph.

Long ago I realized that I could have taken almost all of my shots at big game with the old M1917 .30-06 that Dad let me use back in 1966. I've still got that rifle and still use it today. He still dotes on the 1903 Springfield his father customized for him while he was in the Navy in and after WWII. I could also have killed most of my game with the 6mm Remington that Dad gave me in 1974. My youngest son still uses that rifle and I'm considering using it in Wyoming this year for pronghorn.

But now and again the magnums are fun and/or useful. So... Why not? Or we'd all be using .22's and .30-30's.

Regards, Guy

 

[Wondermutt]

If you want a magnum, use a magnum. Personally, I no longer hunt elk with anyone who tells me I am over gunned with the 300 RUM.

Are magnums better? No, but a lot of guys really have this thing about proving that I can be done with a smaller caliber. Next time you think a 260,270 or thereabouts is as effective as a 300 WM for elk, shoot a grapefruit at 100 yards and tell me which one would make the most humane kill when examining the after effect.

I am going to use the weapon which will provide the most humane kill in my hands. That is why I sold my 270 and started using my 30-06. Personal experience and preference for me.

 

[longguner]

If you want a magnum, use a magnum. Personally, I no longer hunt elk with anyone who tells me I am over gunned with the 300 RUM.

Are magnums better? No, but a lot of guys really have this thing about proving that I can be done with a smaller caliber. Next time you think a 260,270 or thereabouts is as effective as a 300 WM for elk, shoot a grapefruit at 100 yards and tell me which one would make the most humane kill when examining the after effect.

I am going to use the weapon which will provide the most humane kill in my hands. That is why I sold my 270 and started using my 30-06. Personal experience and preference for me.

Well that's a first... sold your 270 and started using you're 06..... I'm getting a brain cramp on that one.