Why No Love for The .308 Winchester

[rjm158]

Back in the days before the internet, hunting/gun magazines were the way to learn about stuff. I researched before buying my first deer rifle and decided it would be a 308, for many of the reasons listed by other posters. I killed my first deer with a 700 BDL using 150 grain Winchester Silvertips. As many have done, I traded it away but a couple of years ago I bought one like it and plan to outfit it like the first one and hunt with it.

Currently, I own more rifles in this caliber than any other. I have an affinity for the cartridge and it's offspring. I completed a bucket list project this past deer season I set for myself to take a deer with every commercialized caliber in the 308 family. I have found them all, like the parent, to be easy to load for. My youngest stepson is a 308 devotee. While he has several different calibers to pick from, his 700 and 7600 are his go to's.
The 308 just WORKS within it's performance parameters and that's why it continues to be popular with seasoned shooters and novices alike.

Ron

 

[Guy Miner]

I think Barsness wrote an article called "The 308 is Great!" - and he's right. I don't hunt often with it, simply because I've more hunting rifles than I need. Got my 308 used 30 years ago and I've worn out a few 308 barrels at 4,000 - 6,000+ rounds per barrel. I used to shoot it a lot... The Remington 700 was my SWAT rifle, and my match rifle for both "practical - tactical" type matches before PRS started, and also for prone 600 yard competition in the any rifle/any sight class. I've done well with it in competition over the years. Here the "Green Machine" is in the McMillan stock with a Vortex scope.

The photo below is how I currently have it set up in the lighter HS Precision stock and a 6x SWFA scope:


This is a custom 308 Win at the shop where I "work" pretty casually. BAT action, Foundation Dominion stock, 16.25" fast twist Benchmark barrel, set up with a 2-10x and suppressor for this session. It's been amazingly accurate and easy to shoot. Likely my favorite custom rifle from the shop.

Also had a Winchester Model 70 match rifle in .308 and used that extensively in prone matches for a few years. Also did some across the course matches with it. Used 30" Palma contour barrels for the most part on that one. Sometimes with a scope, sometimes with a set of very nice match sights. Typically 155 gr Nosler or Sierra match bullets.

It's easy to load match-accurate hunting ammo for the 308 Winchester. Sometimes I use the little arbor press. The 125 grain Ballistic Tip really scoots and is a fine deer bullet.

Maybe too many photos - but ya - I like the 308 Winchester a LOT and use it regularly still.

Regards, Guy

 

[grry10]

Getting issued an M14 was my introduction, and will always have a soft spot for it. If it wasn't a great cartridge it would not have been used to parent so many others.

 

[Redmt]

I like the 308 as well. It’s a great little caliber for deer. I own several and have a Ruger #1 at the gunsmith now getting rebarreled to 308.

Who is doing the work? I hope it's not Wayne York. It will never shoot straight again.

 

[HAWKEYESATX]

I love my GA Precision 308 Crusader, shoots like a dream. Currently using 178 ELD-M with 43.8 grains of Varget, a hair over 2750 fps. I was banging 8 inch steel at 800 yards, love hearing the ding a few seconds after the hit. The 178 ELDM is deadly on whitetails, never went far with pass throughs and exits the size of a half dollar. I would not trade it for any other rifle. It's mine to keep. I could easily match the speed of a 30-06 and no pressure. I was pushing more than 2800 fps with the 165 Ballistic Tips, and 3,000 fps with the 150's with Lapua brass. Still have 15 firings on the brass and annealed after each firing. It's hard to burn a barrel on the 308.

Your account of using the .308 is inspiring! Thank you for sharing! I greatly appreciate it!

 

[HAWKEYESATX]

Kind of like plain vanilla but I like vanilla.
My daughter is also a big fan of the tree-oh-ate.

JD338

Jim!
I was wondering when you were going to give your testimony on the .308! What a great one read, too! Thank you as always!

 

[HAWKEYESATX]

Hawk I read John Wooters back in the day. Remember his side profile picture wearing a camouflage cowboy hat holding a Sako Forrester full stock 308win just like the one in my avatar picture. The 308 was what I killed my first deer with. Had a few off and on over the years. Most were for looks not performance necessarily. The 308 has a reputation for accuracy and hard not to get one to group. More to like about them then not. Got away from it for awhile when looking for more velocity, longer distance type shooting. That being said the 308 has been filling the roll of long distance for some time. A shooter could do a lot worse than using a 308 Win.

You hit the nail on the head with the description of John Wootters! I agree with what you said too!

 

[HAWKEYESATX]

I was watching a hunting show the other night where all the members of a large party were in Africa, where they all used rifles chambered for the 308 Win for their hunts for the wide variety of plains game, including a fair number of animals in the tougher species such as zebra, oryx, and blue wildebeest. There were a number of couples in the party, as well as a number of singles, where some of the men and women were on their very first hunts of any kind.
The happy smiles of all the successful hunters told the story!
Hard to beat that kind of validation.

I couldn’t agree more!
Thank you for posting this story!

 

[HAWKEYESATX]

My first rifle was a Remington 700 in 30-06. It is close to ten pounds and a 24” barrel.
A very good “field rifle” for me. Kinda awkward to carry in the close woods all day.
My second is a Winchester model 94 with iron sights because I believe that is the way it is intended to be. No scope for mine! Just ruins the appeal.
I bought the 94 as I love to still hunt and the carbine was very easy to carry, but my aging eyes and the iron sights were becoming apparent.
So I began looking for a scout type rifle for those day long still hunts in the thick woods, that was light and agile with a little less recoil. This was right after the pandemic and there was not a lot of ammunition available on the shelves in the local stores, and what was, was .308 Win. (Mostly) followed by 30-06 and then 270.
I saw an auction for a Tikka compact in .308 Win. And placed a bid, thinking that I’ll never win this at this cost and proceeded to forget about it. 3-4 days later I get a notice that I won the auction!
It is now my most used rifle and I have an accurate load using 150 grain Accubonds. It has shot clover leaf groups at 100 yards and softball sized groups at 300 yards.
Weighs about 7 pounds and is approximately 38” long making it very pleasant to carry still hunting, while still a very capable rifle for sitting on the edge of a crop field here in N.Y.

View attachment 25864View attachment 25865View attachment 25866

Excellent story and a really nice looking rifle!

 

[HAWKEYESATX]

I love my M21 308 Win. Fun to shoot and easy to make lethal hits. The 165-168 gr bullets are the sweet spot. Decent speed too.

JD338

Holy Cow!
I just enlarged the picture Jim! Does your M21 have a 24 inch barrel?
The average velocity is 2810 fps! Thats cooking!
What are you using to get that?

 

[HAWKEYESATX]

I like my little Kimber 308 as it is very light and handy for mountain mule deer. Shoot 178 Eld X and also bring 170 grain cast bullets for grouse. scoped and loaded it weighs right at 6 lbs.

Friend takes central Washington elk at 600 yards with his. Has a place he sets up at every year. He says he doesn't feel under-gunned.

Love to hear accounts like this!
Thank you for sharing!

 

[HAWKEYESATX]

I hunted for 25 yrs with my Rem. 7400 in 308 Win. Many deer had felt the wrath of it. My dad has only hunted with a Rem. 742 in 308 Win 50+ yrs. My daughter now hunts with a Wby Vanguard in 308 Win. I currently own 2 308 Win.

This is cool!
My Weatherby is the second .308 I own. The first is a Ruger American. That Ruger will shoot the Winchester 150 Power Points into just over an inch shooting 8 shots.
I got the Bee because I’m a nut for 24 inch barrels on standard calibers. And I will use the Bee more than the Ruger. And I love the Bee products too.

 

[HAWKEYESATX]

Maybe it doesn't get love because it's ubiquitous? So common and casually effective that it isn't going to get hype? Don't have an answer, but I know it works very, very well.

I believe you’re right about everything you said!

 

[GregoryB.]

Who is doing the work? I hope it's not Wayne York. It will never shoot straight again.

Paul Hampton is doing the work. Barrel and Jard trigger.

 

[HAWKEYESATX]

I think Barsness wrote an article called "The 308 is Great!" - and he's right. I don't hunt often with it, simply because I've more hunting rifles than I need. Got my 308 used 30 years ago and I've worn out a few 308 barrels at 4,000 - 6,000+ rounds per barrel. I used to shoot it a lot... The Remington 700 was my SWAT rifle, and my match rifle for both "practical - tactical" type matches before PRS started, and also for prone 600 yard competition in the any rifle/any sight class. I've done well with it in competition over the years. Here the "Green Machine" is in the McMillan stock with a Vortex scope.
View attachment 25873
The photo below is how I currently have it set up in the lighter HS Precision stock and a 6x SWFA scope:
View attachment 25874

This is a custom 308 Win at the shop where I "work" pretty casually. BAT action, Foundation Dominion stock, 16.25" fast twist Benchmark barrel, set up with a 2-10x and suppressor for this session. It's been amazingly accurate and easy to shoot. Likely my favorite custom rifle from the shop.
View attachment 25872
Also had a Winchester Model 70 match rifle in .308 and used that extensively in prone matches for a few years. Also did some across the course matches with it. Used 30" Palma contour barrels for the most part on that one. Sometimes with a scope, sometimes with a set of very nice match sights. Typically 155 gr Nosler or Sierra match bullets.
View attachment 25875
It's easy to load match-accurate hunting ammo for the 308 Winchester. Sometimes I use the little arbor press. The 125 grain Ballistic Tip really scoots and is a fine deer bullet.
View attachment 25876
Maybe too many photos - but ya - I like the 308 Winchester a LOT and use it regularly still.

Regards, Guy

I was waiting to see what you would say Guy!
This is superb! And whenever you want to share photos, by all means, please do.
I know you’re an 06 guy when it comes to hunting, mostly. You opened my eyes to using it again, too. That’s why several years ago I got my Vanguard in 06. It fills what I wanted in a rifle. Plus I now have my Vanguard in .308, so they will be used together. I can see them both going on hunts and either one will be a backup rifle.

 

[Guy Miner]

Ha! You baited me with this thread! I like 'em both... And the 308 will do most of what a 30-06 does. I just get sentimental about the ol' 30-06 too.

Guy

 

[HAWKEYESATX]

Ha! You baited me with this thread! I like 'em both... And the 308 will do most of what a 30-06 does. I just get sentimental about the ol' 30-06 too.

Guy

I wasn’t baiting per se! LOL
But I knew you have used both, but prefer the 06, and I can see why. They’re both great cartridges!
When I graduated high school back in the late 80’s, my dad and I were going to work on an old Israeli FN Mauser in .308 Win. My dad ordered it and he got a phone call letting him know it was in. By the time he went to pick it up, the owner inadvertently sold it to someone else. That was going to be our project rifle to turn into a sporter. My dad had done a super job on his Springfield 03-A3 sporterizing it. It’s beautiful, and that is the rifle I “cut” my teeth on learning the basics of marksmanship from my dad. My Bee looks very close to his. Yet another reason why I got it.
To me, I look at both cartridges being “interchangeable” ballistically.

 

[JD338]

Holy Cow!
I just enlarged the picture Jim! Does your M21 have a 24 inch barrel?
The average velocity is 2810 fps! Thats cooking!
What are you using to get that?

The M21 308 Win is a 22" match grade Shilen barrel. Varget powder has done really well for me.
And don't underestimate the 308 with heavy weights.

JD338

 

[JD338]

Ha! You baited me with this thread! I like 'em both... And the 308 will do most of what a 30-06 does. I just get sentimental about the ol' 30-06 too.

Guy

I'm with you Guy. I cut my teeth on the 30-06.

JD338

 

[PJGunner]

To be perfectly honest, I shunned the .308 from the start considering it to be a 30-06 want to be. I remember when a hunting partner in California bought a .308 when they first came who he was singing the praises of what a great cartridge it was. Frankly, it wasn't until 1973 that I even considered a .308 and that was because being a heavy chain smoker at the time, hunting with friend on 9,500 foot high mountains was taking a heavy toll on me and my 30-06 was getting to be too damned heavy. The only .308 I could find was a Remington 660 so I bit the bullet and bought it. I wasn't too thrilled about that short 20" barrel as it was loud. Not sure about accuracy either as the noise and recoil got a serious flinch going. Later on my kids got me a set of shooting muffs for my birthday and WOW! What happened to the recoil? That was when I started getting decent groups running Winchester factory ammo with 150 gr. bullets. I don't remember if they were Silvertips or Power Points but they shot decent groups.
It was later that year when deer season started that I took that rifle out on its first deer hunt. One of my buddies shot at and wounded a nice 4 point Mule Deer and it was running off. I was about 200 or so yards to the left of my buds when I saw that deer and took a shot even though it was way the hell and gone out yonder. The deer dropped and lay still. My friends came over and we paced it of at 426 paces. At that point in time that was the longest shot I'd ever taken on any game animal. That's when I took a long hard look at the .308.

I have never chronographed any load out of that Remington. I have however chronographed loads from several Ruger M77 RSIs, and a Winchester M70. I did one time chronograph loads from that M70 with 22" barrel with 180 gr. Winchester Power Points. At the same time I ran some 30-06 180 gr. Power points from a Remington M700 BDL with 22" barrel. The .308 was all of 20 FPS faster than the 30-06. THe only real difference was the .308 barrel had a 1 in 12" twist while the 30-06 was 1 in 10". Whether that made a differnce or not is something I cannot answer.

I have read those article by John Wooters and his full stocked SAKO and looked for one for a long time. Never did find one in .308. What I did find was the Ruger RSI and while it took me a long time to fid a usable hunting load for that rifle it has become one of my favorite .308 rifles I own. I had to find another one as my late wife tried to appropriate mine. The only thing I was skeptical about the rifle was the 18.5" barrel. About the best they'll do with my handload is 2550 FPS which is exactly the same as the Speer Nitrex ammo that is no longer available. I used the Speer 165 gr. Hot Core and Speer used the 165 gr. Grand Slam bullet. The longest shot I've taken with the RSI was 250 yards. I probably could have taken 95 percent or better of the shots at game with that load and never had to look back.

I took me a while to come around to liking the .308 but when I did it was a solid liking.
Paul B.