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tddeangelo
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- May 18, 2011
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Oldtrader3":xvf9ukyy said:
Winchester SuperX "PowerMax Bonded" , 180gr PHP bullets.
Winchester brass issues?
- Thread starter tddeangelo
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Winchester SuperX "PowerMax Bonded" , 180gr PHP bullets.
Oldtrader3
Ammo Smith
- Nov 6, 2009
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Thanks, Tom.
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tddeangelo
Handloader
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Well, the stuff is boxed up waiting for UPS to get it...could be today, tomorrow, or Thurs. Hope to hear from them by the beginning of next week.
In the meantime, I have the Nosler brass ready to rock, with 4 batches of 4 rounds each of H4350 under 180gr AB's....61.5gr to 63.0gr charge weights. Hornady says max on a 180 is north of 65gr, so I should be ok on pressure.
62.0gr had shown some potential from one string of three, so I figured I'd go a half-grain below, then go up in 0.5gr increments as well. I like doing 4 per load, which gives me one botched shot a load. Hopefully not an issue, but I find that if I yank one, then I only have two shots to go by. With 4, I can get three data points even if I blow one shot of the batch.
In the meantime, I have the Nosler brass ready to rock, with 4 batches of 4 rounds each of H4350 under 180gr AB's....61.5gr to 63.0gr charge weights. Hornady says max on a 180 is north of 65gr, so I should be ok on pressure.
62.0gr had shown some potential from one string of three, so I figured I'd go a half-grain below, then go up in 0.5gr increments as well. I like doing 4 per load, which gives me one botched shot a load. Hopefully not an issue, but I find that if I yank one, then I only have two shots to go by. With 4, I can get three data points even if I blow one shot of the batch.
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tddeangelo
Handloader
- May 18, 2011
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To put some closure on this one...
I was about ready to call Winchester, as some weeks have gone by since I sent the brass back.
Earlier this week, however, a letter arrived, apologizing for the problem and containing two $20 vouchers for Winchester ammo products to use at any authorized retailer. Considering I paid $35 plus tax for the ammo, that was pretty cool of them.
Also.... that ammo had been bought with my new rifle and a rebate was running on the ammo. The offer was if you bought ammo with the rifle (on the same receipt) you got the purchase price of the ammo back (not the sales tax), up to $50.
I sent in my rebate form a while ago, expecting it to be a while till it came. They sent me the full $50. Not sure if it was a screw-up, if someone saw the issue I had with the ammo, or what, but they sure took care of the problem!
I was about ready to call Winchester, as some weeks have gone by since I sent the brass back.
Earlier this week, however, a letter arrived, apologizing for the problem and containing two $20 vouchers for Winchester ammo products to use at any authorized retailer. Considering I paid $35 plus tax for the ammo, that was pretty cool of them.
Also.... that ammo had been bought with my new rifle and a rebate was running on the ammo. The offer was if you bought ammo with the rifle (on the same receipt) you got the purchase price of the ammo back (not the sales tax), up to $50.
I sent in my rebate form a while ago, expecting it to be a while till it came. They sent me the full $50. Not sure if it was a screw-up, if someone saw the issue I had with the ammo, or what, but they sure took care of the problem!
DrMike
Ballistician
- Nov 8, 2006
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I'm really pleased to hear that, Tom. All of us want to believe that manufacturers of firearms, ammunition and hand loading components are part of this grand fraternity.
Oldtrader3
Ammo Smith
- Nov 6, 2009
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I wonder if Winchester has a "value" extrusion line somewhere (Mexico maybe) to make their cheaper cases ammo? The reason that I wonder is that I have been using W-W Supreme brass since they first branded it in about 10-15 different calibers and have never had a W-W made brass issue or neck split.
In fact the only neck splits that I have ever had were with some cheap Federal brass handloads that were 15+ years old and the Partition bullet was "shellaced" (ion-corrosion bonded) to the case neck. The stuff had fliers on the target (in my 7mm Mag) and split several case necks. I wonder if your ammo may have been improperly stored in high temperatures? Just my $.02, FWIW. The ether leaching from the double base powder (IMHO) at high temeratures can accelerate ion corrosion between a bullet and case neck in temperatures above about 40*C (125*F) which can happen easily during truck or wherehouse storage in the south-west in the summer.
In fact the only neck splits that I have ever had were with some cheap Federal brass handloads that were 15+ years old and the Partition bullet was "shellaced" (ion-corrosion bonded) to the case neck. The stuff had fliers on the target (in my 7mm Mag) and split several case necks. I wonder if your ammo may have been improperly stored in high temperatures? Just my $.02, FWIW. The ether leaching from the double base powder (IMHO) at high temeratures can accelerate ion corrosion between a bullet and case neck in temperatures above about 40*C (125*F) which can happen easily during truck or wherehouse storage in the south-west in the summer.
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tddeangelo
Handloader
- May 18, 2011
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Charlie,
I should have taken pics of it. The splits were unlike case neck splits I've seen in tired brass. Those usually break from the mouth in a jagged line down the neck. It literally splits apart.
These were different.
The majority were split well below the mouth, some extending below the neck and down onto the slope of the shoulder, but not far.
The splits were straight, clean, precise. Almost like there was an area cut with a dremel wheel. Precise start/stop points. They really almost looked cut, not split. No jagged lines at all, straight, clean splits. Most were maybe 0.1-0.2" long, straight, clean, and metal from where the split occurred seemed to just be gone.
Again, I didn't notice the first round of this, as no mouths were split.
I actually noticed when one of the empties went SUPER easy through the resizer die. After the second range session, probably 50% had split, and one of 6 reloads had split.
I don't know if that helps your thoughts on this, or gives it more twists and turns, lol.
I should have taken pics of it. The splits were unlike case neck splits I've seen in tired brass. Those usually break from the mouth in a jagged line down the neck. It literally splits apart.
These were different.
The majority were split well below the mouth, some extending below the neck and down onto the slope of the shoulder, but not far.
The splits were straight, clean, precise. Almost like there was an area cut with a dremel wheel. Precise start/stop points. They really almost looked cut, not split. No jagged lines at all, straight, clean splits. Most were maybe 0.1-0.2" long, straight, clean, and metal from where the split occurred seemed to just be gone.
Again, I didn't notice the first round of this, as no mouths were split.
I actually noticed when one of the empties went SUPER easy through the resizer die. After the second range session, probably 50% had split, and one of 6 reloads had split.
I don't know if that helps your thoughts on this, or gives it more twists and turns, lol.
I've never had issues with WW brass. Like Charlie, I have been using a bunch of the Supreme brass in my 270WSM for a number of years and it is lasting like it is made of iron..
Saying that, this recent batch of 7 WSM brass from WW is very inconsistent in rim thickness. My Forster doesn't care, but when I was pulling bullets from my last range sessions, some would barely go into the shell holder, while others slid in fine. Again, not horrible, but not very consistent either.
Glad WW sorted you out Tom. Sounds like you made out well and it is great to hear Winchester is on the up and up. Scotty
Saying that, this recent batch of 7 WSM brass from WW is very inconsistent in rim thickness. My Forster doesn't care, but when I was pulling bullets from my last range sessions, some would barely go into the shell holder, while others slid in fine. Again, not horrible, but not very consistent either.
Glad WW sorted you out Tom. Sounds like you made out well and it is great to hear Winchester is on the up and up. Scotty
Oldtrader3
Ammo Smith
- Nov 6, 2009
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I have had issues with the rims of WSM cases, in my instance, .300 WSM that did not fit into the #4 shellholder easily. However, the RCBS die company recommends a #43 shellholder specifically for the WSM cases. I have not done a study on this issue and my son now has my .300 WSM so, I haven't followed up on this issue
Aside from the same issue that Scotty mentioned, I have not ever had any issue with W-W cases that I bought in bulk for reloading across all of the calibers and rifles that I have loaded for since 1964. I have no way of knowing what load density and pressures that people who are having issues with these cases are loading. This is always the issue with internet discussions, there is no technical data to support opinons. No finger pointing, just wondering why folks are having case damage which I have not experienced over thousands of loads and nearly 50 years of loading various maker's cases but mostly W-W and Norma?
Aside from the same issue that Scotty mentioned, I have not ever had any issue with W-W cases that I bought in bulk for reloading across all of the calibers and rifles that I have loaded for since 1964. I have no way of knowing what load density and pressures that people who are having issues with these cases are loading. This is always the issue with internet discussions, there is no technical data to support opinons. No finger pointing, just wondering why folks are having case damage which I have not experienced over thousands of loads and nearly 50 years of loading various maker's cases but mostly W-W and Norma?
DrMike
Ballistician
- Nov 8, 2006
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I have used a variety of Winchester brass for a large number of rifles during the past decade or so. Occasionally, I observe a lot in which the rims appear to be non-uniform, especially on WSM cases. Other than that one issue, the brass has served me well and gives me appropriate case life.
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tddeangelo
Handloader
- May 18, 2011
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Reloder28":2gbced7h said:
I do understand that, bud. I bought less than costly ammo because I was doing barrel break-in and really didn't care what the bullet or powder was that was used. I wanted to start break-in and get the brass to use for reloading.
If I wanted to buy stuff on the cheap, I wouldn't have a Model 70 Extreme Weather with Talley rings/mounts waiting to be filled with a Leupold VX6, now would I?
