Winchester pre 64 270

[Europe]

I shared this with Scotty when it happened, but thought other pre 64 fans might enjoy hearing this.

While in Crete a young woman, probably the old mans granddaughter, walked up to me and ask if I was the American woman who enjoys hunting and I said I was. She said he wants to tell you something ( "he" being an old gentleman even older than myself ). He started talking , with her translating, and he said "several years ago a company called Winchester made the best rifle ever made. But they screwed it all up in 1965. He further declared that this Winchester rifle that was made before 1965 was a 270 caliber rifle. Before 1965 that 270 Winchester rifle was the best rifle in the world"

and he walked off. The lady who was translating said I think that is all he had to say and we both smiled and they were gone. I personally always enjoy these encounters and love talking to the locals.

Anyway, we are preparing to leave paradise and will be traveling for a bit, but before I left I wanted to share the above with you and to again thank Fotis. thank you Fotis, it has been magnificent .

 

[Blkram]

Neat encounter and story!

 

[Anonymous]

That's a priceless story. The influence of the Pre 64 Winchester .270 and Jack O'Connor reached well beyond American shores.

 

[DrMike]

Well, he at least had the company right! :shock: Even if he was a bit fuzzy on the cartridge. :mrgreen: Neat story, to be sure.

 

[AFG270]

Great story of a great rifle AND DrMike, a great cartridge. LOL

 

[35 Whelen]

The old fella should have checked out the new version Winchester did of the original pre 64 action, it may have
renewed his opinion of the old company! Maybe?

 

[SJB358]

The old fella should have checked out the new version Winchester did of the original pre 64 action, it may have
renewed his opinion of the old company! Maybe?

Ha! That might be something. I do sorta cringe a little about Portuguese 70’s but they are well built rifles.

 

[35 Whelen]

Hummm, well since Browning has been building Alot of their stuff in Portugal , since the 70's that's an interesting observation? Care to share some of the better features of an original pre 64 action, over the modern day version of the pre 64 action? I have all three here and honestly thought when Winchester decided
to reintroduce the " pre 64 action" in 1989 they had the engineers look into that deeply to see what could be done to improve it even more.............
Guess I missed something on these Scotty? But always willing to learn???
Fire away!

 

[SJB358]

Hummm, well since Browning has been building Alot of their stuff in Portugal , since the 70's that's an interesting observation? Care to share some of the better features of an original pre 64 action, over the modern day version of the pre 64 action? I have all three here and honestly thought when Winchester decided
to reintroduce the " pre 64 action" in 1989 they had the engineers look into that deeply to see what could be done to improve it even more.............
Guess I missed something on these Scotty? But always willing to learn???
Fire away!

Well, just for numbers I’ve got 10 of the Classics and 5 of the P64’s. I have owned two of the FN guns. My Classics have all been decent, but about 1/2 of them needed bedding, pretty hefty trigger jobs since they were MIM pot metal (some not all) versus steel and some lug lapping due to one lug floating while the other engaged and extractors. My old buddy termed a Classic a project in a box meaning you could get a stinker or a decent one 50% of the time.

The P64’s have all been damned good except for the 338 that needed a bore lapping job since it gobbled up copper like crazy but the rest have been a clean, tq screws, adjust the trigger and commence to shooting. Bolts are machined one piece Whereas the Classics aren’t. Not a completely bad thing, I’ll take a Pre before a post given the option.

The FN guns felt pretty good but I’m not a huge fan of an enclosed trigger system but realize thats my hangup and have had only one trigger lock up on me so I shouldn’t care. Their barrels took some shooting to break in, but otherwise they’re great rifles. I don’t not like them cause they are made in Portugal only that a Winchester feels like it should be made in the USA.

And I don’t think any of them truly improve upon the original M98...

And I know you’ve got extensive time with rifles E, what do like about one over the other. I’d in no way fight or argue which is better, I just know what I like, but I respect everyone’s opinions around here. Especially you old guys that probably started hunting with atlatls :lol:

 

[6mm Remington]

Man Scotty you like to live dangerously by your comments!!

 

[Europe]

Especially you old guys that probably started hunting with atlatls :lol:[/quote]


Scotty, I remember when the bow and arrow came out which replaced the atlatl. A lot of people at that time thought bow and arrows were just a "fad" and would soon be forgotten, well that didn't happen

And for the record I have to vote for the pre 64 over the post 89, but that is in no way a whack at Portugal. I like Portugal. I just like OLD stuff. Like Dr Mike, Earle, Guy, Don and pre 64 Winchesters lol

 

[DrMike]

I just know what I like, but I respect everyone’s opinions around here. Especially you old guys that probably started hunting with atlatls :lol:

Atlatl? I remember rocks! Big sticks!

 

[35 Whelen]

I decided to trade mine all in for a chainsaw!
:lol: Actually for anyone wanting to really get to the roots of the differences in what Winchester
decided to do before actually starting production of the old control round bolt, and receivers ; probably one of the best sources would be found in the excellent design analysis; of the actions is to be found in Stuart Otteson’s Book “The Bolt Action”.
Scotty brought up some valid observations on his guns, and of course the point of things being made "at home" will always be something you can hang your hat on ! I personally have found the
Model 70's that I liked the workmanship on the best to be " pre war" rifles; more so than simply pre
64 versions. A 1963 standard aluminum buttplated gun was a far cry from a pre war Model 70.
Even though they share the same basic action. And to imagine that any of them would shoot as good as a modern day Tikka ( made in Finland) is probably going to be a bit of a stretch ??? We all
have our favorites, many times it's balance and good looks, when Winchester first reintroduced the
"Pre 64" style receiver guns in 1990 Alaskans lined up at gun shows to buy them, dealers could not
get them in fast enough. At that time just an original "receiver" had been selling to build a gun around for $500! When we found out you could get the whole gun for the same price as just a receiver we rushed at them. I bought two, a wood n blue in .270 and the "All Terrain" Stanless n
Black stock both in Featherweights. I later sold the 270 to a guy that had waited for months for one
that never did show up! Like Scotty I love them, and have had a love affair with them since reading JOC in high school, they are as American as it gets.Here is my New Haven Ct. StainlessClassic:vintage 1990And here here is an Old Klunker (Supergrade)they slapped togeather over in Portugal??? Which may be inferior because it was made there? But for me, that's going to be ok! :lol: However:
If I was headed to Mongolia tomorrow for a Marco Polo ram for $40,000, I would likely leave the model 70's home and hunt with a new foreign gun: The model 85m Sako ! :shock:
(Just kidding!) :lol:

 

[EOD Diver]

What a great post. I think Scotty nailed just about every aspect of why I love P64s. I’m not opposed to enclosed triggers, but feel that the open system is simply a work of art. I was sad to see New Haven close, but ecstatic when FN resurrected the M70 here on American shores. Likewise, I was sad to see assembly moved to Portugal and eventually production as well. The FN rifles are great guns to be sure and are the rifles I selected to be my children’s first firearms, but I’m glad that I snatched them up before they made the move to Portugal.
It’s very telling that this gentleman went through the trouble to relay his opinion of the P64 and is testament to the influence the rifle, the cartridge, and Sir Jack made in the world.
V/R,
Joe

 

[Elkman]

scotty,

I respect everyone’s opinions around here. Especially you old guys that probably started hunting with atlatls

I respect them also, I think my dad was one of those.

 

[Europe]

Thanks guys, he was definitely a man of few words, but it is an encounter I will not soon forget nor would want to.

Scotty and Earle. I always felt pre war 70.s were a better collector rifle and the 70,s produced immediately after the war were the best hunters rifles, as they retained the pre war quality but were designed for easy scope mounting. I did feel the quality of the rifles produced after 1960 (60 thru 64 ) were already headed south. But this is just one old woman's opinion and with it and a nickel you can buy absolutely nothing!

 

[SJB358]

If I was headed to Mongolia tomorrow for a Marco Polo ram for $40,000, I would likely leave the model 70's home and hunt with a new foreign gun: The model 85m Sako ! :shock:

That’s okay. I like that we all see different aspects of what we like.

If it was a Marco Polo Hunt I believe I’d be carrying Warren Pages cartridge of choice.. I love the big 7, weighs about 8.5 all loaded to hunt and I have supreme confidence in it working in adverse conditions.

I’d also have to say my most accurate rifles with the least amount of fussing have been my P64’s. Like I said earlier, my 338 shot excellent but would copper foul pretty bad. The rest of them have been load and shoot Affairs. Tikkas are actually probably my recommendation for a guy that wants to buy a rifle, mount a scope and a box of ammo in it to go hunting. The darned things are put together straight but they won’t likely push in my 70’s for my main battle rifle.

Bill.... I kinda thought it was you who chucked long arrows and rocks at the early Elk... swear I saw a picture of you in the history book :mrgreen:

April, I agree. Up till about 58 I can’t really tell the difference but post 58 you can see the cheapening begin... I don’t have one older than 55 though so I’m a touch limited, but just going off what I’ve seen.

I’ve threatened to take it Elk hunting for years but my danged partner always scoffs at me when I bring up using my 270... oh well, maybe one of these years I’ll sneak it into camp.

 

[sask boy]

I have never been a Winchester fan because of their lack of left handed bolt actions rifles . I will admit though that every person I know that has used a pre-64 still has them :shock:.
Speaking of old when I was up in Dawson Creek, I was sure a certain Doctor still had a slingshot collection :lol:.

Blessings,
Dan

 

[Blkram]

With all the talk of atlatl's, bows and arrows (dating back over 10,000 years), sticks and stones....some of you may now feel like teenagers again as they now have evidence of arrowheads and spearpoints now dating over 350,000 years old in the find near Morrocco! As old as the good Dr is, and even though I have even stated that he is older than most rock today, even I do not think he is quite this old! LOL