Wow - Lot's of Hype for the 6.5s
- Thread starter Teknys
- Start date
TackDriver284
Handloader
- Feb 13, 2016
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HAWKEYESATX":1v1e83va said:
Sadly I disagree with you, even the .300 Magnum loaded up with the high BC bullets will outclass and reach further than a .280 Remington even if you used a high BC bullet. The 280 Remington does not have the speed to push a high BC pill as far as a 7mm Magnum or a 300 Magnum, limiting the 280's energy / drop at long distances. Ballistic charts, with the 280 Rem and 300 Magnum side by side shows the 300 Winny as the winner. The 280 is indeed a good cartridge, but the 300 Magnum common sense wise is a better choice than the 280 at long distances over 500 yards unless you use a faster 7mm bullet.
I am not here to argue or burst anyone 's bubble, but its OK to disagree with someone. :mrgreen:
Off topic a bit but if you compare the Hornady 180 ELD with a .797 BC started at around 2750 (doable from a correctly set up 280) to a 225 ELD with a .777 BC launched from a 300 Win at 2850 it’s pretty interesting to see the little 280 keep pace... just food for thought..
The 300’s really get into their groove with the heavies.
The 300’s really get into their groove with the heavies.
HAWKEYESATX
Handloader
- Aug 15, 2016
- 1,805
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Thank you SJB358SJB358":3ip5wdfe said:
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SJB358":3mfnho7t said:
I think that’s where guys get in trouble on elk.... when simply looking at “energy” numbers. I’d never shoot an elk with that bullet. Energy doesn’t mean squat when the projectile isn’t up to the task.
160 AccuBond vs. 180/200 grain AccuBond is a good comparison if we’re talking elk bullets outta the 7mm vs. .300...
6.5_sWv
Beginner
- Mar 5, 2019
- 194
- 175
Having never messed around with a 6.5 before, I tested the waters this past January. I previously had really only shot paper and deer with a 270win, and a 7x57 but I just wanted another hunting rifle.
I only waded about knee deep in the 6.5 waters when I bought a Mossberg Patriot Predator in the 6.5 Creedmoor. Honestly I really didn't buy into the hype so much as I wanted to own a rifle chambered for the most popular chambering this century. I feel that love or hate the creedmoor is basically a modern day 30-06 or 270 or 308, not in performance but in rising to popularity and being chambered by every manufacturer.
At any rate, I invested very little in the gun scope dies and spent more money for a wide variety of bullets from every manufacturer. I already had most of the powders I needed since im shooting the 7x57. Ive currently put 248 rounds down the barrel. I enjoy shooting it, and honestly I shoot it fairly well.
I don't see the reason to hate it, but to each their own. I like mine and for killing WV whitetails I'm sure it will fit the bill.
I only waded about knee deep in the 6.5 waters when I bought a Mossberg Patriot Predator in the 6.5 Creedmoor. Honestly I really didn't buy into the hype so much as I wanted to own a rifle chambered for the most popular chambering this century. I feel that love or hate the creedmoor is basically a modern day 30-06 or 270 or 308, not in performance but in rising to popularity and being chambered by every manufacturer.
At any rate, I invested very little in the gun scope dies and spent more money for a wide variety of bullets from every manufacturer. I already had most of the powders I needed since im shooting the 7x57. Ive currently put 248 rounds down the barrel. I enjoy shooting it, and honestly I shoot it fairly well.
I don't see the reason to hate it, but to each their own. I like mine and for killing WV whitetails I'm sure it will fit the bill.
It's probably a whole different wheelhouse here in the cornfields of Indiana where 300 yards is an EXTREMELY long shot, no matter who you are. The ones I've heard chatting on it wouldn't know 300 yards if it bit them in the hindquarters to get their attention and held up a sign.
Yep, HERE the hype is out of hand and in a bad way. Too many think the ability to shoot those SUPER long, SUPER heavy for caliber, SUPER high BC bullets "flatter" than many.........somehow equates to NO trajectory out to 300 yard. Uhhhhhhhhhh...nope. Shooting those heavy bullets just do not make for any kind of FLAT......UNLESS your shooting ranges WAAAAAYYYY past what we have here.
Yes, there are some good lighter bullets but the locals have their heads wrapped around all those high BC numbers, they don't hand load and they buy one. Bingo, presto........they get hit with reality, and yet another 6.5 CM is up for sale.
Admit it or not, the CM was DESIGNED FOR long range TARGET shooting and the long range Andy Oakleys decided to hunt with it to. Work? Yep.....a good one for long range for sure. Others are too. Pick your poison. Put a properly built bullet in the boiler room and they will fall. A "better" normal range round for deer.......it is not. The heavy weight, high SD bullets are pointless and impact velocities and trajectory a our ranges.....suffer. Work? Oh yeah. Superior for our hunting? Not even.
Try to convert it TO a normal range round and shoot bullet weights more geared for deer and you'll have one HECK of a jump to reach the lands. I'm talking HUGE.....almost ala' Weatherby jumps. I did see PT&G has a reamer for a whole bunch less freebore that would be a huge help IMHO, if one wanted to do so...........but would he still be shooting a CM? hmmm Stick a long COAL factory round in there (if it would go at all) and eek!
Yep. I'm an ol' fuddy duddy but change the body taper to something more sensible for fast bolt work, neck it down to .257..........OR up to 6.8, heck.......I might even want one.
First time I saw a CM case........I saw that 110 grain 6.8mm AccuBond flashing before my eyes, but the higher SD of a 100 grain 257 popped in there too. That 90 grain GMX bullet would be a SCREAMER out of a wildcatted one........and not beat this old man up a lick. The BC is "ugh" but check it all on trajectory calculators with one pushed FAST. Hmmmmmm.
Throw in the fact that one can purchase, large rifle primer versions, small rifle primer versions with metric flash holes, small rifle primer version with US flash holes...........HOT DANG, I could have months and months of "testing fun".
So I'm weird, lol. I HAVE noticed though that while it varies like all sales, there SEEMS to be more and more used CM rifles on GB......not that I look often. :wink:
Bottom line.......works great for some, works ok for some........and UGH, for some......just like any other round.
NO one round is king for all the possible uses. Thank God!
God Bless
Yep, HERE the hype is out of hand and in a bad way. Too many think the ability to shoot those SUPER long, SUPER heavy for caliber, SUPER high BC bullets "flatter" than many.........somehow equates to NO trajectory out to 300 yard. Uhhhhhhhhhh...nope. Shooting those heavy bullets just do not make for any kind of FLAT......UNLESS your shooting ranges WAAAAAYYYY past what we have here.
Yes, there are some good lighter bullets but the locals have their heads wrapped around all those high BC numbers, they don't hand load and they buy one. Bingo, presto........they get hit with reality, and yet another 6.5 CM is up for sale.
Admit it or not, the CM was DESIGNED FOR long range TARGET shooting and the long range Andy Oakleys decided to hunt with it to. Work? Yep.....a good one for long range for sure. Others are too. Pick your poison. Put a properly built bullet in the boiler room and they will fall. A "better" normal range round for deer.......it is not. The heavy weight, high SD bullets are pointless and impact velocities and trajectory a our ranges.....suffer. Work? Oh yeah. Superior for our hunting? Not even.
Try to convert it TO a normal range round and shoot bullet weights more geared for deer and you'll have one HECK of a jump to reach the lands. I'm talking HUGE.....almost ala' Weatherby jumps. I did see PT&G has a reamer for a whole bunch less freebore that would be a huge help IMHO, if one wanted to do so...........but would he still be shooting a CM? hmmm Stick a long COAL factory round in there (if it would go at all) and eek!
Yep. I'm an ol' fuddy duddy but change the body taper to something more sensible for fast bolt work, neck it down to .257..........OR up to 6.8, heck.......I might even want one.
First time I saw a CM case........I saw that 110 grain 6.8mm AccuBond flashing before my eyes, but the higher SD of a 100 grain 257 popped in there too. That 90 grain GMX bullet would be a SCREAMER out of a wildcatted one........and not beat this old man up a lick. The BC is "ugh" but check it all on trajectory calculators with one pushed FAST. Hmmmmmm.
Throw in the fact that one can purchase, large rifle primer versions, small rifle primer versions with metric flash holes, small rifle primer version with US flash holes...........HOT DANG, I could have months and months of "testing fun".
So I'm weird, lol. I HAVE noticed though that while it varies like all sales, there SEEMS to be more and more used CM rifles on GB......not that I look often. :wink:
Bottom line.......works great for some, works ok for some........and UGH, for some......just like any other round.
NO one round is king for all the possible uses. Thank God!
God Bless
Songdog":tqirxjjt said:
Couldn't agree more. I'll take the AB's or even the longer, heavier Partitions and make out just fine for my limits on shots..
I'll even add the .264 140 AccuBond into the mix on your above bullets and there still isn't a whole lotta difference between them out to normal hunting ranges.
350JR, whats the difference in trajectory between a 30-06 with a plain old 180 at 2750 and a 6.5 whatever launching a 140 at the same speed? I know there is "flatter" shooting cartridges in both examples, but out to 300 yards with a decent zero should be a chip shot for me folks using just about anything these days.
Probably nothing. Both are shooting bullets with a SD (and therefore bullet weight) WAY more than any POSSIBLE shot requirement for a deer to 300 yards. Work? Sure...... would either be my choice? Hardly..maybe for elk if I was ever blessed enough to be able to hunt them once more.
Keep in mind the mentioned "chip shots" taken here for deer are off hand shots, taken with maybe 10 - 15 seconds to git r done......or not.
While I set up with some kind of rest and do so at a greater distance due to some physical barriers I must hurdle.........the majority are sitting in tree stands and the deer can be anywhere and come from anywhere. My own decades of hunting them that way made that perfectly clear. Whatever one THINKS is going to happen is hardly ever the case. These deer are running to.......or from something, about 80-90 percent of the time. They get hunted HARD opening weekend.
During opening weekend, depend on them coming in a little faster than one would prefer and about 60 percent of the bucks taken are within those two days. About 80 percent never pose for a shot and are moving targets.
Longer range shots like I set up for one has a little more time but its not measured in minutes normally and don't happen until late, late, late in the season and are also normally within the first or last hours of shooting time. Everything seen in range during daylight is almost always busting across the field at warp speed.
Literally all legal calibers would work fine but I simply do not see any sense in shooting heavy for caliber bullets for these ranges. An SD of .205 will penetrate stem to stern at 2500 fps or so.......been there done that and that was with an impact of the also fore mentioned "quartering to" shot with the shoulder the impact point. The bullet was under the skin on the off hip.
Nothing wrong with the CM. Just saying the hype has blown it way out of proportion. YMMV.
Just an opinion. I'm not disrespecting any round mentioned.
Im not saying slow, heavy bullets dont WORK. They were my go to in a black powder gun. Just arent my choice for a centerfire and longer ranges.
God Bless
Keep in mind the mentioned "chip shots" taken here for deer are off hand shots, taken with maybe 10 - 15 seconds to git r done......or not.
While I set up with some kind of rest and do so at a greater distance due to some physical barriers I must hurdle.........the majority are sitting in tree stands and the deer can be anywhere and come from anywhere. My own decades of hunting them that way made that perfectly clear. Whatever one THINKS is going to happen is hardly ever the case. These deer are running to.......or from something, about 80-90 percent of the time. They get hunted HARD opening weekend.
During opening weekend, depend on them coming in a little faster than one would prefer and about 60 percent of the bucks taken are within those two days. About 80 percent never pose for a shot and are moving targets.
Longer range shots like I set up for one has a little more time but its not measured in minutes normally and don't happen until late, late, late in the season and are also normally within the first or last hours of shooting time. Everything seen in range during daylight is almost always busting across the field at warp speed.
Literally all legal calibers would work fine but I simply do not see any sense in shooting heavy for caliber bullets for these ranges. An SD of .205 will penetrate stem to stern at 2500 fps or so.......been there done that and that was with an impact of the also fore mentioned "quartering to" shot with the shoulder the impact point. The bullet was under the skin on the off hip.
Nothing wrong with the CM. Just saying the hype has blown it way out of proportion. YMMV.
Just an opinion. I'm not disrespecting any round mentioned.
Im not saying slow, heavy bullets dont WORK. They were my go to in a black powder gun. Just arent my choice for a centerfire and longer ranges.
God Bless
Anyone who uses SD as a means for predicting penetration is severely confused these days.... it means less than nothing. Sectional density, as it relates to penetration, is only valid when talking solids.... as any expanding bullet has a rapidly changing SD as soon as it hits fur.
Saying the Creed is worthless because a guy isn’t shooting “long range”.... is absolutely asinine. There are many excellent factory loads using 100-127 grain hunting bullets. “Jump to the lands”? Who cares.... what matters is how they shoot... I’ve yet to see a bad Creed factory load.
For 300 yard deer hunting... I’d take the Creed over cartridges like the .243, .257 Roberts, 7x57, .308, etc... it simply delivers more, for less, than any of those rounds.
Saying the Creed is worthless because a guy isn’t shooting “long range”.... is absolutely asinine. There are many excellent factory loads using 100-127 grain hunting bullets. “Jump to the lands”? Who cares.... what matters is how they shoot... I’ve yet to see a bad Creed factory load.
For 300 yard deer hunting... I’d take the Creed over cartridges like the .243, .257 Roberts, 7x57, .308, etc... it simply delivers more, for less, than any of those rounds.
HAWKEYESATX
Handloader
- Aug 15, 2016
- 1,805
- 64
I'm certainly not saying the 6.5 CM is worthless as a hunting cartridge. It's a fine cartridge for hunting within 400 yds, and plenty flat shooting, even flatter shooting than the old venerable 7x57, and .308, and the .30-06.
No matter which cartridge you shoot, factory velocity claims are 100-200 fps slower, on average, than stated claims.
Now, for example, I will pick on another cartridge I like, the .280 Remington. In its factory form, it's not living up to its potential. 140 gr bullets at around 2850 fps, and 150 gr at around 2750 fps. Now, by handloading, you can make it live up more to its potential, without breaking the pressure it was meant to be. 140's shoot at around 3100-3150 fps, 150's shoot around 3000-3100 fps, 160's shoot around 2900-3000 fps. By Handloading, you make a decent cartridge into a better cartridge, making it shoot flatter, and hit harder.
Also, one can improve the 6.5 CM's performance by handloading, as you well know.
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No matter which cartridge you shoot, factory velocity claims are 100-200 fps slower, on average, than stated claims.
Now, for example, I will pick on another cartridge I like, the .280 Remington. In its factory form, it's not living up to its potential. 140 gr bullets at around 2850 fps, and 150 gr at around 2750 fps. Now, by handloading, you can make it live up more to its potential, without breaking the pressure it was meant to be. 140's shoot at around 3100-3150 fps, 150's shoot around 3000-3100 fps, 160's shoot around 2900-3000 fps. By Handloading, you make a decent cartridge into a better cartridge, making it shoot flatter, and hit harder.
Also, one can improve the 6.5 CM's performance by handloading, as you well know.
Sent from my moto e5 play using Tapatalk
Out playing with the LH Sako 85 Hunter again today!
Mounted a Swarovski Z5 3.5-18x44 on it and was shooting Nosler's 140gr AB ammo.
3 shot groups as small as 0.516" at 100 yards. A little vertical stringing consistent with each group; will check action screws' tension.
Such a pleasant rifle to shoot!
Not as small of groups as the HSM 140 gr Berger ammo, but is good enough for hunting in my neck of the woods!
Need to try a recipe using Re-26 with the 140 gr AB's. Any QL recipes with Nosler brass, F210M primers in a 24" barrel?
Mounted a Swarovski Z5 3.5-18x44 on it and was shooting Nosler's 140gr AB ammo.
3 shot groups as small as 0.516" at 100 yards. A little vertical stringing consistent with each group; will check action screws' tension.
Such a pleasant rifle to shoot!
Not as small of groups as the HSM 140 gr Berger ammo, but is good enough for hunting in my neck of the woods!
Need to try a recipe using Re-26 with the 140 gr AB's. Any QL recipes with Nosler brass, F210M primers in a 24" barrel?
Agreed, the 6.5x55 is a superb calibre,if it floats your boat, but has it's limitations, I too am a .30 cal man through and through, why risk a marginal calibre on something like a big animal in terms of a moose, in fact, in Sweden the minimum calibre to shoot a moose is the 6.5x55 so I dispute the above statement from above poster, the .30 cals account for for moose in Swedenfilmjunkie4ever":252rv5cg said:
