WSMs--why the failure to turn the rifle world around

[Oldtrader3]

Gotcha! I missed those points because they weren't listed as issues but they certainly make sense now that I think about it. Probably also because I am really not experienced with the WSM cases and loading except for the .300 WSM for an few months before I gave it to my son. I loaded some 200 Partitions in my WSM and noticed the potential for having the ogive tangent point seated below the neck mouth when seated to factory COAL. Plus, the long bullets certainly infringe on the powder space in the short case, short shoulder and short neck. What you say makes sense. I guess if I want a .404 Jeffries, I need to find an original?

 

[FOTIS]

Have a friend in Wyoming (of all places!) with a .375 based on a .300 WSM case.

Quite a rifle!

Man with that limited capacity case?

 

[Anonymous]

I believe all of Fairbanks based gunsmith Gary Junk's wildcats ( the "Alaska Express") are based on the WSM cases.
His goal is short and handy rifles-

Here's an brief from his website- these are listed as results from 20" barrels.

416 Alaskan Express 350 gr. Kodiak 2451fps SD of 11
300 gr. Hawk 2515 fps SD of 12

.375 Alaskan Express 270 gr. Hornady 2631 fps SD of 11
260 gr. Nosler 2673 fps SD of 08
250 gr. Kodiak 2702 fps SD of 05
235 gr. Speer 2840 fps SD of 17

.338 Alaskan Express 225 gr. Nosler 2840 fps SD of 13
217 gr. Swift 2830 fps SD of 21
210 gr. Nosler 2868 fps SD of 10

 

[Oldtrader3]

Those are pretty impressive velocities from that case. Seems to be a better case than described earlier for larger bores and long bullets. After all, I have a .338 Federal, talk about bullets taking up precious powder space in a .308 case but I don't shoot anything longer than a Nosler 210 Partition in it. I can crowd 2600 fps with the 210 Partition in the .338 Federal.

 

[FOTIS]

They are impressive for sure. Bordering on hard to believe!

 

[Anonymous]

They are impressive for sure. Bordering on hard to believe!

I'm not validating the numbers at all... I do find it interesting though.

I have no idea what powder or charge he used to obtain that data but they are certainly red-hot.

I'd imagine that .375 number is hell for stout in a lightweight gun!

 

[DrMike]

I have a couple of good friends with the .325 and both swear it'll do anything the .338 can- including several very respectable griz between them.

I would not hesitate to tackle a grizzly with my 325 WSM loaded with the 200 grain Partition or with the 220 grain A-Frame. Either will perform superbly when called upon to do so.

 

[Oldtrader3]

All the owner reports that I am familiar with, all rate this cartridge highly and the Model 70 that it comes in. It has the reputation of being a very capable cartridge.

 

[SJB358]

The Model 70's allow you to get out to 3.10 or so, which really lets you get that bullet out some. Not saying the shorter mags don't work, but having the length in the mag box really does help out.

 

[DrMike]

I have always wondered why Remington and Browning didn't extend the magazines. The longer magazine in Winchesters has been extremely beneficial to hand loaders.

 

[7mmBoise]

I have a Tikka T3 Ultralite 24" SS in 300WSM its about 1 1/2 lbs lighter and a bit more accurate than my Browning ABolt 26" in 300 Win mag. I use it mainly for cow elk hunts in the mountains of SW Idaho.

 

[DrMike]

I have a Tikka T3 Ultralite 24" SS in 300WSM its about 1 1/2 lbs lighter and a bit more accurate than my Browning ABolt 26" in 300 Win mag. I use it mainly for cow elk hunts in the mountains of SW Idaho.

I'm certain your T3 has served you well for elk. The 300WSM can be a hammer. Mine has accounted for a number of moose and elk.

 

[filmjunkie4ever]

I like mine. Its a 300 WSM in a Model 70. But as everyone has said, its not anything new. A 30-cal 180 grain bullet going 2900-3000 fps in a 24" barrel is the same package hunters have been getting for years with the 300 Win Mag.

 

[Guest]

I like the idea of the short mags. I even bought my son one. I think there are three reasons they're becoming scarcer. First, there's a premium on the rifles and ammo due to the lawsuit. I suspect Ruger's RCM line was borne of a desire to avoid the added fee. There's just not much margin in rifles and every little bit counts. Second, I think the "new" is off, and many people who would want one, have one. In some cases, they have several. That's part of the process with every new cartridge, though. The last issue is probably the most relevant. When the short mags were introduced - especially the WSMs, but to a degree the SAUMs as well - they were touted as faster than their standard length counterparts with all but the heaviest bullets. That's proved not to be the case, by and large. What people have rediscovered is the truth that there is no free lunch. There is no magic elixir of case shape that makes one round faster than another while using significantly less powder, but the same bullet. What's happened is, the laws of physics have kicked back in, after all the gunwriter euphoria, and people now realize that, at equal pressures (65kpsi and under) the WSMs run about as fast as one would expect based on case capacity. So, too, does the 375Ruger and it's offspring. (The 375 has about 5% more case capacity than the 375H&H, and, as if by magic, is about 4% faster than the H&H...) So all of a sudden, the guys who thought they were buying something between a 300WinMag and a 300Wby have discovered they're closer to the 30-06 than the 'bee, and the word is getting around. I've noticed the optimistic load data for these coming back to earth a bit, too, in some instances. Not to the level that Speer and Hornady have neutered the Weatherby data (the 270Wby maxing out with 2900fps for a 150gr bullet? Seriously? That's a 270Win, not Wby!) but it is down some.

Don't get me wrong. I like these rounds. I like a lot of rounds. Even the WSSMs are gaining a following in the AR platform, and they're spectacularly suited for it from what I'm learning. I even like the 375Ruger, as it offers guys with standard length actions an option for bigger, faster rounds than they had before. But the reason the hype is dying down is age (the novelty is wearing off) and those pesky laws of physics.

 

[Oldtrader3]

There were folks claiming that the .270 and .300 WSM's had more capacity than the Weatherby Mark V cartridges. I have eyes and there is no comparison between the .300 Weatherby an the .300 WSM case. I owned a .300 Wsm and a .340 Weatherby (same case as .300 Bee) and the Weatherby's are an order of magnitude larger capacity than the WSM at 66 grs of powder for the 180 grain WSM, versus nearly 83 grains of the same powder in the .300 Weatherby, 180 grain load at similar pressures.

Once the hysteria and marketing misrepresentations died down, the WSM's are practical cartridges but Weatherby's they ain't. As far as the SAUM's go, they are not even notably faster than the .280 Rem in the 7mm SAUM at the same pressure. KIPS of pressure is the marketing hype breaker for the shorties. Now that the hype has cleared away, the shorties can live or die on their own merit.

 

[SJB358]

There are alot of rifles chambered in the 270 and 300WSM.. The 325 and 7mm seem to stick around. Winchester is chambering all 4 of them, as is Browning. A 7WSM in a BLR would be one handy elk rifle!

 

[Oldtrader3]

If I did not have a custom 7mm Rem Mag, I would be very interested in the 7mm WSM. It is a shame that that chambering has to compete against the Remington 7 mag. I hope that the 7 WSM holds its own and sticks around. It is a good balanced cartridge and does not have the pesky belt to annoy handloaders when setting up sizing dies.

 

[SJB358]

You aren't kidding Charlie. That little 7WSM will crank a 160 AccuBond at 3100. I love mine. Awesome rifle!

 

[Anonymous]

I do recall a lot of the hype when the WSM line came out- frankly, Winchester just overstated their capability. But that's not new for Winchester at all. Heck, that's practically their standard playbook for the last 100 years!

One thing not mentioned here yet is the very good performance the WSM line gives with lighter bullets.

There is nothing wrong with a 180gr at 2950, but with the newer mono metal and controlled expansion bullets is the weight really required? My WSM gets 3200 and change with 150s and I'm still below max. Haven't tried it on critters yet but a 150AB smoking right along isn't a bad answer.

 

[HTDUCK]

Never shot a WSM until this past Saturday.
First leg of a steel match at 550 yards I was shooting a buddies 7WSM stoked with 180 Bergers.
He already had the rifle doped, one sighter and I was shooting for score.
Intresting looking case and it brought lots of whoopass.
I could see one in my future easily if I didn't own 2 280s and a 7STW.
If I were to build one though I'd want it in a long action which negates the whole short action is lighter argument in my mind.
Also as thick as those cases are compared to bullet diameter I can't help but to think that they are barrel burners.

Truth be told we could have quit back in 1903.
We had the 30-06 and the 375 H&H
Do we really need anything else for 99% of the game on the planet ?