ladies/youth big game caliber

hodgeman":b03k3oca said:

hunternyny":b03k3oca said:

T Educate me on why several here have said 308 and not 30-06 as I believe I would lean toward the 30-06, for myself and my wife thank you

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It's a lot harder to find a .30-06 with stock dimensions that fit small statured folks than it is to find a .308 that's suitable.

Lots of "youth and ladies" rifles in short action cartridges, not so many in long actions.

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Another point for the .308 vs .30-06 for youth/ladies, and what I believe is the primary reason for short action ladies/youth rifles, is the short action bolt throw. With a full length stock, you nearly need to break cheek weld with a long action to cycle the bolt. Take off 1-2" of LOP to properly size the stock for a smaller statured shooter, and you definitely do. Not so with the .308. That was the reason I went with a .308 for my wife's first rifle, also the reason I'd select such calibers as .250-3000, .260, 6.5 creed, 6.5x55 in an intermediate length, 7-08, .308 over .25-06, .270, 30-06. Nothing to do with the ballistics or recoil of the rounds. I believe the Blaser rifles get around this difficulty with their bolt/magazine configuration, perhaps somebody more knowledgeable in these can chime in on that. I would love to see a .270 bore non-magnum short action round made commercial, but with the dominance of the 6.5 Creed and 7-08 in the American market, that is unlikely.

My wife uses a 30-06 with 150NPT reduced loads for everything!

ShadeTree":2g1a8ccq said:

What I am against is it being labeled as a "youth" rifle and being pushed on the market as such with gun sizes and weights to match the skinny little 9 yr old that dad buys it for. There's synthetic stocked short barreled 7mm-08's out there that barely break 6 lbs. .... A lightweight -08 with full powered loads for big game is a wrecking ball. .

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I can only speak from my experience as the guy who bought his skinny 9 year old a 7-08 that weighed 6.5 pounds. He (and everyone else that's shot it) didn't have any problems with the recoil.

I would think the 7mm-o8, 7x57 would be very most versatile. Boddington took his daughter to Africa for big antelope with a 7mm-08 as I recall. With increasing numbers of 6.5 bullet weights the creed and the 6.5x55 should be increasingly popular. My mother shot a 6.5 Jap. :shock: light enough recoil. Dad gets smarter every day. 257 Roberts and the 25-06 are actually good choices IMHO. The 25-06 with a 100 gr or less bullet is not hard to shoot. Its what I started with in a borrowed rifle. However, just based on the number I see at the range and at public sight in events I would say its a 243 hands down in MN (unless its grand dads 30-30 :roll: - tough to get a stock that fits well enough to make them fun for a smaller stature person to shoot). Anyway 243- whether that is enough for elk is up for debate, but its the most popular deer round IMHO. Lots of loads and bullet weights off the shelf help make it popular and easy to find a load that many can shoot. Wow- long winded aren't I? CL

Gracious - I almost forgot - Hands down- the best is a 250-3000 Savage !!! (c-mon' you didn't think I'd let this one slip by did you??

Have most of these. My Granddaughter shoots a 308 but I've dug out my Roberts. I've killed more deer with it than any rifle I own. I also have a light load in 30-30 she shoots. It kills hogs reliably.

This is the gun I started my son with. A TC Encore with 17” 308 barrel and collapsible stock. I started him out with reduced loads using 150gr NBT @ 1400fps using trail boss. It made for a very quiet, accurate load. He has since moved on to full power loads and a lefty ruger American also in 308.

My wife I started out with a Winchester 70 in 270 that I happened across, set up with a vias brake and soft decelerator pad. I picked up the 25 WSSM to kind of match the 270.





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hodgeman":386wst4q said:

hunternyny":386wst4q said:

T Educate me on why several here have said 308 and not 30-06 as I believe I would lean toward the 30-06, for myself and my wife thank you

Click to expand...

It's a lot harder to find a .30-06 with stock dimensions that fit small statured folks than it is to find a .308 that's suitable.

Lots of "youth and ladies" rifles in short action cartridges, not so many in long actions.

Click to expand...

John, hodgeman is correct but I saw a 30-06 that was made to fit a lady hunter by Kilimanjaro that was pretty slick, you might want to give them call or maybe fly to Hawaii with your wife and speak to them in person

When it comes to youth and women, especially those just starting out Dr Mike makes excellent points.

Great posts guys, the 7mm-08 apparently have a lot of fans and one off them is my granddaughter. Just spoke to Hodgeman about getting that SWFA onto her rifle and I think she will be ready to knock something down later this year. You better be right about that scope Scotty lol

6.5x55 for my son's first, .30-06 for my gf.

Both are good for pretty much anything they will encounter.

Polaris":8ugl8cjx said:

My wife, with my guidance, purchased a .308Win Savage M11. She is left handed, so our options in an affordable rifle were limited (she was still in college, and we were just getting started). There was also a possibility of drawing a moose tag, so we wanted something with enough horsepower to handle that game. Being able to practice with (at the time) low cost 7.62 NATO ammo was a bonus, as she was new to rifle shooting and needed plenty of practice. With a slightly reduced 150 gr loading, it was mild to shoot and plenty capable on deer sized game. A 150 gr Barnes would have been the moose load. We did work up to full power loads one summer. She handled them fine in small doses, but they were definitely above her limit for frequent practice shooting. With the new upgraded stock on her rifle, it is much more comfortable for her to shoot. Most importantly, her accuracy from field positions has improved dramatically with the improved fit.

With todays options and a better financial situation, 7mm-08 would be my choice with moose now off the table. If I could find a LH 6.5x55, that would be even better, but not sure if such a beast exists outside of a custom rifle. If moose were again an option, a .308 would have to be added.

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Here’s a very nice 6.5x55 LH... I’d be all over one of these if I had a Lefty that needed outfitting.

https://shop.whittakerguns.com/product/ss-9788

Europe":8ugl8cjx said:

hodgeman":8ugl8cjx said:

hunternyny":8ugl8cjx said:

T Educate me on why several here have said 308 and not 30-06 as I believe I would lean toward the 30-06, for myself and my wife thank you

Click to expand...

It's a lot harder to find a .30-06 with stock dimensions that fit small statured folks than it is to find a .308 that's suitable.

Lots of "youth and ladies" rifles in short action cartridges, not so many in long actions.

Click to expand...

John, hodgeman is correct but I saw a 30-06 that was made to fit a lady hunter by Kilimanjaro that was pretty slick, you might want to give them call or maybe fly to Hawaii with your wife and speak to them in person

When it comes to youth and women, especially those just starting out Dr Mike makes excellent points.

Great posts guys, the 7mm-08 apparently have a lot of fans and one off them is my granddaughter. Just spoke to Hodgeman about getting that SWFA onto her rifle and I think she will be ready to knock something down later this year. You better be right about that scope Scotty lol

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I can’t speak for your granddaughter but the SWFA line has been excellent for me. I wish here a ton of luck.

I’d strongly recommend the 7mm 08 or 257Roberts. After fit, I would not let a new hunter loose with a lawyer trigger. Trigger has to behave well for less experience shooters. My youngest has a 243Win in a youth model, and the triggerwas 8 pushing 9 pounds. Best he could manage was a 6” groupwhile I was printing 0.5” groups. Had a Basix trigger installed and set up for a 4# pull. Shrunk his groups to 0.75.

Trigger is critical to enjoyment.


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Great point MJ! Good triggers are worth gold for young hunters. Heck, I won’t mess with a grit trigger myself.

Thankful Otter":hq4fjssg said:

Dr Mike, excellent post/point's. This is exactly what I express to the young people I work with.

however, since my first rifle was a used 30-06, using store bought ammo, it is amazing that I did not starve to death

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If we all were being honest here we could each just have a 30-06 and shoot factory ammo and never look back, and I don't think we would starve either. The 30-06 is a great cartridge that won't beat up smaller stature or younger folks. Everyone seems to be able to handle the kick the 30-06 dishes out which isn't too bad!

Several good points mentioned here.
Stock fit is extremely important. Make sure a good quality recoil pad like a Pachmeyr Decelerator Magnum recoil pad is fitted by a competent gunsmith. A good trigger will also make a big difference in accuracy.

JD338

6mm Remington":2h4cdzjd said:

Thankful Otter":2h4cdzjd said:

Dr Mike, excellent post/point's. This is exactly what I express to the young people I work with.

however, since my first rifle was a used 30-06, using store bought ammo, it is amazing that I did not starve to death

Click to expand...

If we all were being honest here we could each just have a 30-06 and shoot factory ammo and never look back, and I don't think we would starve either. The 30-06 is a great cartridge that won't beat up smaller stature or younger folks. Everyone seems to be able to handle the kick the 30-06 dishes out which isn't too bad!

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I’d become a better bow hunter :lol:

hodgeman":3fpio931 said:

ShadeTree":3fpio931 said:

What I am against is it being labeled as a "youth" rifle and being pushed on the market as such with gun sizes and weights to match the skinny little 9 yr old that dad buys it for. There's synthetic stocked short barreled 7mm-08's out there that barely break 6 lbs. .... A lightweight -08 with full powered loads for big game is a wrecking ball. .

Click to expand...

I can only speak from my experience as the guy who bought his skinny 9 year old a 7-08 that weighed 6.5 pounds. He (and everyone else that's shot it) didn't have any problems with the recoil.

Click to expand...

I wont doubt you, but I also know two guys well that one admitted to me he almost ruined his son on shooting, he refused to do it anymore and had them both frustrated until he downgraded him to a 243 with 80 gr bullets. The other has a son that is in a similar situation but so far he hasn't gotten him anything different.

It's not an across the board issue, but in my opinion there's 7mm-08's out there that are too much gun for the kids they're being marketed to.

ShadeTree":1m3e3ai8 said:

hodgeman":1m3e3ai8 said:

ShadeTree":1m3e3ai8 said:

What I am against is it being labeled as a "youth" rifle and being pushed on the market as such with gun sizes and weights to match the skinny little 9 yr old that dad buys it for. There's synthetic stocked short barreled 7mm-08's out there that barely break 6 lbs. .... A lightweight -08 with full powered loads for big game is a wrecking ball. .

Click to expand...

I can only speak from my experience as the guy who bought his skinny 9 year old a 7-08 that weighed 6.5 pounds. He (and everyone else that's shot it) didn't have any problems with the recoil.

Click to expand...

I wont doubt you, but I also know two guys well that one admitted to me he almost ruined his son on shooting, he refused to do it anymore and had them both frustrated until he downgraded him to a 243 with 80 gr bullets. The other has a son that is in a similar situation but so far he hasn't gotten him anything different.

It's not an across the board issue, but in my opinion there's 7mm-08's out there that are too much gun for the kids they're being marketed to.

Click to expand...

I would agree on that, knowing what works for your child is by far the best. The 243 is a nice round, a 100 gr in a small 6.5 is almost as good especially when paired with H 4895. When I started my wife shooting with her 6.5x55 we started with Trail Boss loads with some 140 gr bullets I had kicking around, then graduated to 120 gr Ballistic Tips and H 4895 after that we graduated to full power H 4350 loads which she handles very well.

Our 13 year old daughter has shot our 7/08 once, and that was suppressed. I only let her shoot it to make sure she could hit stuff with it... the next time she shootsvit, it will be tp punch a tag. On the other hand.... she shoots thr .260 all the time.... but it weighs a full pound more, and fits her a little better.

I think far more important than “caliber” is rifle fit. I’ve seen a .243 beat the crap out of kids.... because the comb was too low, and it was smacking them in the cheek every time they shot it.

It takes lots of time, and hundreds of rounds, to develop the kind of skills it takes to make hits in the field with a rifle..... but it only takes one painful or obnoxious round, to wreck all of those good habits.... sometimes permanently.

I started my wife off with a 7mm-08 and she loves it. And after shooting my 250 AI with factory ammo purchased her own rifle in 250 Savage and enjoys shooting it even more ( the 7mm-08 being her upper end for recoil tolerance, which she liked even better after replacing the factory pad with a LimbSaver).

My daughter took her first deer with my BLR in 358 Win, and while she says that the recoil doesn't bother her, she is done practicing with after 4 rounds. She tried several other rifles and cartridge combinations (260 Rem, 270 Win, 7mm-08 and 338 Federal) bfore settling on the 270 for her first rifle. Her goal is an elk.

Over the years at the gun store, many youth and ladies were started off with 7mm-08's, but quite a few were also started with 243's, 260's/6.5x55's, 270's (Win and WSM) and 7 Rem Mags. It really came down to what they had already been shooting and were comfortable with, as well as what they were wanting to hunt.

Polaris, there are left handed 6.5x55's available in the Sako (85 Hunter and Bavarian) and the Tikka. They are great shooting rifles. Also, the 6.8 SPC is a commercial non-magnum .277" short action cartridge that is availble and was offered in the Remington 700 SPS rifle and AR styled rifles in the 2000's. Was a great little short range deer cartridge, with very little recoil.

gerry":283rfczp said:

Hard to go wrong with the 6.5x55, 6.5 Creedmoor or 7mm-08 these days for women or youth. Quite frankly for men as well, most animals don't require a cannon to bring them down. The 270 Win kicks a bit more but there are a ton of factory loads for it and I really appreciate mine. My wife has a 6.5x55 and I also have a 260 Rem, both are quite enjoyable to shoot and do the job nicely.

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The .270 is the nicest deer size game rig out there ! download it if need be......

Even in todays hyper advertised 6.5 Creedmore days; the little 7mm/08 seams to be cleaning up gun sales
Here in Maine, every shop I go into is loaded with both, seams like the paper punchers are all about the Creedmores; but the hunting crowd(especially the ladys and younger hunters) are definitely leaning hard at the little 7mm ! It has certainly established
Itself as a legitimate " Moose gun" with the right bullets and nowadays a top contender for deer/black bears. It looks like it is going to get bundled up with .270/.280 crowd, as a top performer on Whitetails!
E