120gr Speer SBT

Guybo · Jan 31, 2016

filmjunkie4ever":28kgqw7w said:
In no way do I wish to knock the Speer as it has performed admirably in both my .25-06 rifles. Still, the better design of the Nosler (which shoots just as well), to me, makes it the better all-around choice.

I agree! The Speer has been a good bullet for me as well and I wouldn't hesitate to use it again but i'm really liking the 115gr BT's that I'm currently working with. Just as accurate and a dang good looking bullet. I really do love the blue tip compared to the soft point. I've never shot a deer with it but I plan to next season and from Guy's pics I have no doubt it will perform excellent for me as well.

DrMike · Jan 31, 2016

Guybo,

Those are a couple of fine (bragging type) targets. Good stuff!

SJB358 · Jan 31, 2016

Very nice stuff Guybo.

I don't know if you'd find a nickels worth of difference between the 115 BT and 120 Speer. I'm a certified Nosler junky but for deer sized game and the speeds the 25-06 is capable of I can't see either doing poorly.

it would be cool to see one put into jugs to compare the two. As long as it made 3-4 jugs it's going to blaze through a broadside buck pretty easily..

1Shot · Jan 31, 2016

I have killed well over 200 deer with a 25-06 doing crop damage control for 15 years. I tried a whole bunch of bullets from 100 to 120 gr and found that it really don't matter which one you use if you put it where it is supposed to go deer die really quickly. The toughest bullet I used was the 120 Speer Grand Slam. The only one that I ever recovered was from a buck that I shot in the chest as it faced me from about 30 yards and I found the bullet just under the hide after it had smashed the ball socket in the right ham. It was a text book mushroom and weight was 87 grs. It was loaded with 49 grs IMR4350 in a Rem case with a CCI 250 mag primer. If anything I feel that the 120 Grand Slam is too tough for my liking for deer. It will be what I would load for an elk if I ever went after one with my 25-06 though. The bullet I settled on because it has been the most accurate for me is the 117 Sierra Pro Hunter flat base bullet. I load it with the same load as the above mentioned. I have had no problem killing deer out to a touch over 500 yards with it. I just learned my rifle and know where to aim. Elevation is easy compared to windage. The coefficient of the 120 Speer BT hot core may help a little over some of the other bullets but I could not really see any difference in the way it killed deer than most other plain Jain cup and core bullets. As I said if you put any of them where it is supposed to go they all kill well. I would just find the most accurate bullet/load and shoot a lot at the distance you will most likely encounter on your hunts and it would help if you could shoot in the wind to get experience. Get you a chart with wind dope and experiment. That way you can take a SWAG about what the wind will do. By the way if you don't know what a SWAG is it is a Scientific Wild Ass Guess. Good luck and have fun.
Oh by the way. It has been my experience that you put in all that hard work learning yardage and wind for long range and then old mossy horns shows up right in your lap. LOL

35 Whelen · Feb 1, 2016

Great stuff. and lots of good info here. Big thanks to all for your comments. Lot of knowledge here on the 25/06 from folks that have been there and done it. You make some interesting points Dale, and I have taken them onboard. 1 Shot. you come to the table with a bunch of kills with the 25/06 so your comments very good ones. And I will post anything I learn from shooting the 120gr BTs as I gain experience with them. Well they came in today, absolutely handsome bullet, just tryed one in my chamber , and because of its profile forward it touches the lands right at 3.195?? So guess they will need to be seated .185/190???

efw · Feb 1, 2016

I think 1Shot nailed it.

A couple things to note, however:

1) the BTSP isn't a Hot Cor (those have a flat base) and isn't as tough

2) from what I've seen their BCs tend to be on the optimistic side

That having been said I wouldn't hesitate to run them; I use the 145 BTSP in my 280 AI with good results on paper. If I didn't wave a load worked up and hadn't gotten them so cheap I'd prefer an NBT of similar size cuz they're tougher and almost certain to have a higher actual BC than the BTSP.

35 Whelen · Feb 1, 2016

Wow that's interesting stuff, I didn't realize the manufactures could fudge BC figures very much?
E

efw · Feb 1, 2016

I wouldn't call it fudge but Brian Litz has done a lot of research (centered around actual shooting of actual bullets) and found that the numbers ascertained by computer models that nearly all companies were using (except Berger & now Hornady) were significantly higher than actual field testing demonstrated.

Guy Miner · Feb 1, 2016

I noticed a point, maybe 10-15 years ago, when hunters & casual shooters started paying a lot of attention to BC numbers. Prior to that, it seemed like that was mostly something that long-range target shooters worried about.

The bullet companies noticed it too.

Wasn't enough anymore to offer an accurate bullet that killed well - now it had to have a high BC number, to sell... And we started seeing more and more emphasis on the long, pointy, boat-tailed bullets. A lot of old favorite, blunt, flat-nose bullets are no longer even offered.

So... I think there was an understandable trend for a lot of bullet makers to maybe... state a tad bit higher BC figure than was actual. Joe Hunter would compare two bullets, with a .473 BC and a .484 BC and KNOW that the .484 bullet was SUPERIOR... :mrgreen: So, he'd buy that one.

Litz's research and books have done a good job of setting the record straight on what he believes are the actual BC's - and he's got the science, math & physical research to back his numbers.

Frankly - most of us don't hunt at extreme ranges - and if we can put a good expanding bullet in the vitals of our game consistently at the ranges we hunt - that's plenty good enough.

Even though I've done more long-range shooting than most - in competition - I'm not a total nut case on high BC. Nor do I consider it a bad thing. It's just one more factor when comparing bullets.

Regards, Guy

JD338 · Feb 1, 2016

BC's are affected by altitude, temperature, humidity and speed. And to Guy's point, some bullet manufactures seem to "Cook the Books" with their BC values. Nosler bases their BC's on averages. My personal experience with Nosler published BC's is that they are pretty close, at least for me.

JD338

gerry · Feb 1, 2016

JD338":r0yyhej0 said:
BC's are affected by altitude, temperature, humidity and speed. And to Guy's point, some bullet manufactures seem to "Cook the Books" with their BC values. Nosler bases their BC's on averages. My personal experience with Nosler published BC's is that they are pretty close, at least for me.

JD338

I do believe Bryan Litz has also proven that a faster twist rate can increase the b.c. of a bullet as well (such as a 1 in 8 twist 270 or 280 for example having a better b.c. with the same bullet in a 1 in 10)

Guy Miner · Feb 1, 2016

JD338 has smacked some whitetail at what I'd consider Very Long Range for a hunter - and has done a fine job of it.

That indicates someone who does a wee little bit more than just buying a bullet with a high BC number and booting it out the muzzle at considerable velocity... :mrgreen:

Guy

truck driver · Feb 2, 2016

Though I have done some long range varmint shooting I really never looked at the bullets BC. for one thing as a hunter and not a target shooter it never meant anything to me. I was more interested in terminal effects on game.
I had my 257 Roberts built with a 1-12" twist barrel knowing it wouldn't shoot the long slender high BC bullets when the BC craze first started. I wanted a barrel that would handle the light for caliber bullets that would be explosive on varmints and not over penetrate and I got what I wanted a rifle that would handle the little 75gr bullets very accurately. I also found I couldn't shoot the slick 120gr bullets because they would key hole, funny that.
I still wanted to hunt deer with this rifle and use a heavy for caliber bullet. Hornady made a 115gr round nose .257 bullet that fit the bill and I killed quite a few deer with them. I was a nose shot at over 200yds because that's all he showed me from behind a tree he was hiding behind. This rifle is supper accurate and shoots bug hole groups and makes a hard shot easy.
So BC doesn't mean much to me and I look for a bullet that is accurate in my rifle that has good terminal effect on game.

preacher · Feb 2, 2016

Longest "shot" I ever made with a boat tail projectile was a first round hit on an old truck right at 11 miles away! It was a "team effort"....the Forward Observer, our Fire Direction Center and the gun crew on that 8" Howitzer, ha. :twisted: :roll:
I shot an unlucky rabbit at 405yds with a 69gr Sierra BT with my Bushmaster Predator, even then it took 3 shots to "walk it in". However, as I always mention, the wind is the biggest boogerman for me. Boat tail bullets do better, even around 300yds, than flat base simple because they have less "contrail', the turbulence that the wind actually has an effect on. So when "I" look at BC, its not so I can calculate drop at extreme range, its so I can hedge my bet against gut shooting poor old herbivore because of the wind, ha. I like the simple life...the only thing I like to take besides my binocs is a decent rangefinder. I have overshot far more game than under, so I also tend to get confused with just the naked eye...those lying eyes! Clear air, across an arroyo or ravine, sun on them, dark on me...and I will overshoot w/o some help, ha. BUT, I much prefer to hunt where I can work into a comfortable range and "snipe" him at my leisure. I can do it, but I also detest running shots. If I'm going to jump shoot game every time I feel I can do as well with a 3-4" shooter and a wide field scope or irons. No, I enjoy seeing what my accurate rifle/load can do, even in deeper timber, I know I can "thread the bullet" through a small opening. I personally start dreading any shot over 300 to 375yds, ha. I admire folks who can and do take game at long, some really long ranges. I detest those who whang away at a "herd" in hope. Poor old innocent herbivore!

ha Now, if shooting at jihadis, commies or to protect the family, heck, I'll whang away with the biggest redneck out there!!

lhsako · Feb 2, 2016

35 Whelen":p0ov3w2e said:
Considering the winds in Kansas can be ugly, and trying to decide what to shoot there this fall, knowing full well
The shot may end up being a long ways off, with a bad crosswind a possibility.
I am looking hard at some Speer 120gr SBT bullets with a BC of .480, has anyone got a better suggestion??
Or know something bad about them??? With all the storys I am hearing about the wind out there, I want something
With a super high BC to buck that wind ?? These Speers seam to have Berger sorta numbers ........
E

> I shot that bullet in 130 in my 7MMBR. even at those velocities it rapidly expanded on deer.

35 Whelen · Feb 2, 2016

Not firmilar with Litz's work but it sounds good! Since 400 yd shots and screaming winds sounds fairly common out in that flat
Country, I will try to use every thing I can to help me connect if I actually see a buck out there that raises my blood preasure. A fast accurate load, bullet that has is a known performer on DEER, at distances OVER 300yds??? A bullet with as high a BC as I can get to help with the potential winds possible in Kansas the time of year we will be there. A scope to help compensate for elevation errors, with a reticule that can help with bad crosswinds, certainly could all effect ones ability to making it happen.Having shot Sheep out to 400yds, and a few Red Stag,and Caribou at nearly 500 yds with my old 270 , I have no doubt I will get this quarter bore dailed in long before Kansas! If hitting milk jugs at 400 yds is any indication of how one would hit a big buck in Kansas, I think they should already be nervious!

khh · Feb 6, 2016

What ever you choose I'd test/practice with it in the wind. I hunted there in 2002 IIRC and I can tell you when I was there (Nov.) the wind did blow and you could see/shoot a long ways. I wasn't as prepare as I should have been. Where I Hunted , at the time , in Michigan and Saskatchewan 250 yards iwas a long shot. I choose a 300 Win Mag and 180 Partions and killed my buck at about 130 yards. Because of hunting pressure most the deer we killed were killed while driving, although mine was taken sitting. Good Luck.

35 Whelen · Feb 7, 2016

Khh,
It has been my experience that generally speaking western hunters have traditionally been more aware of longer shots
And the wind....... Like yourself we have spent ALOT more
Time this side of 300 yds then I ever did behond 300.
The net,net of all this is these Kansas boys have seen a ton
Of East coast dudes show up with their guns lined up at 100 yds, very little experience doping wind, most have never actually killed a deer at 300, let alone 400........
Most everyone I have spoke to that has been down to this ranch, all have the same story....... They have seen some
Monsters but they can't hit them at the distances the are seeing them, and ALL of them keep bringing up the fact the
Wind is a big issue. So I want to go prepared as best I can, and before I get there be more than aware what the mildot
Corrections are at ,3/4/500 yds for 15/20/25/30 mph crosswinds, and be able to quickly compensate for elev
Corrections. I could still miss for sure, but if I do it won't be
Because I don't know where my gun is shooting, or that I was shooting a foot over his back trying to lob one in and get "lucky"