.243Win. or muzzle brake: dilemma?

R

roysclockgun

Handloader
Dec 17, 2005
736
0
Wife, Storm so much enjoyed going along on this year's muley/pronghorn hunt, that she now plans on gunning her own pronghorn next fall. She owns and regularly shoots an H&R Handi-rifle, chambered in .243Win. I have no doubt that she could cleanly take a pronghorn out to at least 200 yards, as she was consistantly hitting prairie dogs at 200 yards this past October, using my 22-250 Varminter. I would not mind signing her on for muley and pronghorn, but I dislike the idea of using a .243Win. rifle, firing 95gr. Nosler AB, on a larger muley buck! Am I wrong? Should I let her go ahead and gun muley with the rifle that she already can shoot?...........Or, should I move her up to one of my other rifles and have a muzzle brake installed to reduce recoil?
Today, she fired two of my rifles at the range and hit well with each, but I could tell that either one may cause her to begin flinching, as both rocked her back pretty good, sitting at the bench. One, an Arisaka converted to use .257Roberts brass in a 6.5mm bore. (6.5mm-.257Roberts). The other, a 7mm Mauser with a better trigger. Lastly, I would not mind buyer her another rifle, if I thought that doing so would cure the problem of needing a muzzle brake and for her, be easy and fast handling. I have a line on a rifle chambered for 6.5x55 Swede, for which the seller claims .4 inch groups at 100 yards, with 140gr. bullets. That one has Traister bolt kit and trigger kit and has two pillar bedding in a Bell & Carlson stock! The military Swede Mauser bolt has a new, welded bolt handle and has been smoothed out by engine turning. I can't imagine that the recoil will be less than the Arisaka .6.5-257Roberts, but would be much smoother in operation!
Comments? Suggestions? Storm is 5Ft. 2Inches tall. The Handi-Rifle that she uses now has a 13 inch pull.
Lastly, anyone know of a gun smith who does good work on improving the Handi-Rifle trigger. The pull is much too heavy to provide good groups.
TIA,
Steven in DeLand, FL
 
Steven, I would not be worried about the 243 against any muley. I like the 95gr BT, but honestly, seeing how well the 95 and 100gr PT's work in the 243 running around 2900-3000, you would have 0 issues putting a deer down with that combo out to 200 yards. It is a sure thing.

Now, don't let that stop you from getting another rifle for your wife. A bigger cartridge, shooting a lighter bullet might be the ticket. My boy has been shooting his 243 really well, and the next step up will be the 7x57 Mauser. I think he will be okay starting at the light end of the bullet weights and working up slowly.

If she is comfortable with that 243, that is 99% of the battle as you know already. If she shoots it well, no reason not to load it with a tough bullet and let her have at it. Scotty
 
Scotty, I see that you are from N. Va. For most of my 69 years, I lived north of Baltimore, inside Balto. Co., but near Hanover, Pa. In the 1960s, I shot a number of deer with a Ruger Model 77 in .243Win. using the older, standard bullets of 100gr. weight. Two bad things happened on a number of occasions. One, the bullets made through and through wounds, not opening up. The deer were recovered, only after working hard on scant blood trails through thick woods. And two; even solid shots that split the heart, were not knocking the deer down! Since I had been shooting groundhogs with that rifle, I began making neck shots on deer and of course, a good neck shot will drop any deer in it's tracks. Only problem being, one does not always get presented with a clean neck shot. I however, did move up to a rifle firing 130gr. .270Win. cartridges and did not have any deer run off after taking solid shots to the boiler room, heart/lung area. I could not believe the difference in the wound channels, between the 100gr. .243 and the 130gr. .270. It was night and day. The .270Win. knocked deer down, no matter at what range, from 25yds., out to 300yds. I logged each deer taken and the difference in experience between the .243 and .270 was glaring.
I appreciate your input, and if you believe that a premium bullet in the .243Win., like the 95gr. AB will make a difference on mule deer, I will get Storm the trigger job on that rifle and have her go with it.
Best,
Steven in DeLand, FL
 
There are some great bullets out now that really make the 243Win into a thin-skinned game taking machine, Steven. I've never been undergunned with a 243Win on white-tails, nor was my dad, during the 30yrs it was his only deer rifle. He took big and small white-tails (80-180lbs, easily) across at least seven states, maybe more, during that time. There are also two recent threads here on this forum regarding the capabilities of the lowly 243Win against deer and even elk, near and far. I'd strongly consider the 90-100gr Partition or the 90gr E-Tip, depending on what you can get and make shoot well. She won't be undergunned, I'm sure.

Now, as for a gunsmith, I can't help you there.
 
Yes sir, I echo Dubyams thoughts. A PT or the 90gr AB will hammer deer. It probably isn't going to knock them flat like your 270 did but it'll surely get it done with great wound channels and excellent penetration. The 100gr PT will work and open up quick! Again, if you want knockdown, maybe a bigger cartridge would do it, but I don't know if it'll kill too much faster. Sounds like a good space for a 25-06. Just a touch more recoil, but a little more bullet weight at about the same speed. Scotty
 
I would at least work up a load with 100 gr PT 's and give that atry. Like dubyam I have NEVER had an issue on white tail with my 243's, and my son didnt either. if she's comfortable with it, she should be fine, and the triggter job will just make it better.
 
I would put a good .243" bullet up against a muley buck anyday. If she shoots it goog don't mess with it. I have taken a lot of deer with a .243 and some less than premium bullets, use the PT, and you'll not have an issue (assuming good shot placement).
 
I'm all in with these guys except I'm shooting a 6mm Remington. I've taken probably 20 antelope or more with the 6mm alone and roughly 20 deer, and one spike bull. All except my very first year hunting has been with 100 gr. Nosler Partitions. I have never had any problems at all and they have always performed wonderfully. The 243 and 6mm are very underated for game this size.

I would load either the 95 or 100 gr. Partition, 90 gr. E-tip, or the new (yet to be seen) 90 gr. Nosler AccuBond. Any of those four would work great. If the first one you try shoots good in your rifle, USE IT! It does not matter which one of these you use as you will not be wrong in your choice.

One thing that works for those longer shots you might get out there is a Harris bi-pod. They don't add much weight to the rifle and really help the shooter get set and make ONE good accurate shot. Get one soon and let her start practicing with it.

Wish you the best of luck.
David
 
My ex-wife, the one who hunted, used a Remington 725, .30-06 with a good recoil pad as her hunting rifle. She shot handloaded, 165 Partition bullets at about 2800 fps. She started out shooting a .243 and a .250 Savage bolt action for the first year. She was at that time, about 5'-3" tall and weighed about 110 pounds.

She was a lot more concerned about a fast kill and knocking deer down then she was about a little, extra recoil. I think that almost any woman that I know could easily handle a .270 Winchester or even a .280 Rem bolt action with a little practice and commitment?

You might want to ask her what she would prefer if she was going to hunt antelope or deer?

BTW, I just outfitted my grandson with a .280, A-Bolt which has a BOSS on it. I had used the rifle because it was so accurate for several years. Plus, that boy has been shooting that rifle for several years, since he was about 14 and about the size of your wife. He has had no difficulty with shooting it at all, especially with the brake.
 
If the 243 is almost there than the 240 WBY ultralight or even the 240 WSSM would give you that boost. On a simpler note, what about the new Superformance loads. Same rifle, same case, just a little more velocity to open that 100 gr. bullet a little more reliably. Just some thoughts. Good luck.
Greg
 
I'd have no problem with a .243. I would have a huge problem hunting with a braked rifle.
 
Steve, one thing I've learned about arming women, is they tend to care a whole lot more about "pretty" then we do. Although the Sweed sounds like it shoots great groups, it may not meat her astetic needs.

A wife who enjoys our sport is priceless, and should be treated as such. I say buy her a new gun, anything she wants. Just be sure to fit the length of pull the HER, and put an excellent recoil pad on it.

As far as calibers are concerned, something in the 6.5 sweed, .270 Win, 7mm-08, .308 range will give her all the flexability she needs to kill anything she will care to hunt. Unless of course, she decided you need to take her to Alaska or Africa, in which case she earns herself another rifle.
 
Steven - when my youngest son started hunting, I turned to my old tried & true 6mm Remington to be his first hunting rifle. It's worked out great. Recoil is mild enough that he's never flinched from shooting it. I did put a grind-to-fit recoil pad on it, a real nice, cushy one. Big improvement over the hard plastic buttplate I put up with for a couple of decades.

Between us, we've used several bullets. The 95 grain Nosler Ballistic Tip is the one I keep coming back to for that rifle though. It's mighty accurate and the results are impressive. His furthest kill to date with it was a mulie doe at about 275 yards.

The little bullet hit about 1/3 the way up, just behind the leg. Hit the heart, shredded the lungs. Exited the off-side rib cage right into the off-side leg. Shattered that leg bone, then continued on into the hillside.

Needless to say, the doe collapsed instantly, dead as can be. That's been our typical performance from the 95 grain Ballistic Tip. Good penetration, excellent expansion, and very good accuracy.

FWIW, Guy
 
I'll agree with a couple of posters about brakes- The best way to give your wife a flinch is to let her hunt with a braked rifle. Most people are much more susceptable to muzzle blast than actual recoil for flinch inducing reactions.

The .243 is absolutely adequate for deer and modern bullets just make it more so.

I think your spouse certainly needs a better rifle but I'd stick with the .243 class in something very nice cut fit to her....say a Kimber 84M in .243 or similar. The Handi Rifle is OK but the triggers suffer even with the work of a decent gunsmith.
 
You know, Steven, you might look at something like a Ruger lightweight in 257Roberts if you can find one. These came with a 20" barrel and standard size action/stock. Nice package, and good looking. Not sure how they shoot, but they look nice. Or you could do one of the youth rifle setups out there. Howa and Weatherby offer one each, based off the 1500/Vanguard action, and it comes with a short stock. In my opinion, the Howa is the better of the two, as it has a shaved reciever to cut down a tad on weight, as well as a shorter LOP Hogue overmolded stock. You could get one in 243 and know it would be light enough for her, or move up to 7mm-08 and handload 120gr to start and work her up to a mild 140gr load, and she'd be set for everything up to elk at close range.

There are a million ways to skin this cat, but ultimately, you know what she likes (or at least can get her to tell you...) so do like Toucan Sam always said, and follow your nose, so to speak!
 
roysclockgun":3s2w7kga said:
Scotty, I see that you are from N. Va. For most of my 69 years, I lived north of Baltimore, inside Balto. Co., but near Hanover, Pa. In the 1960s, I shot a number of deer with a Ruger Model 77 in .243Win. using the older, standard bullets of 100gr. weight. Two bad things happened on a number of occasions. One, the bullets made through and through wounds, not opening up. The deer were recovered, only after working hard on scant blood trails through thick woods. And two; even solid shots that split the heart, were not knocking the deer down! Since I had been shooting groundhogs with that rifle, I began making neck shots on deer and of course, a good neck shot will drop any deer in it's tracks. Only problem being, one does not always get presented with a clean neck shot. I however, did move up to a rifle firing 130gr. .270Win. cartridges and did not have any deer run off after taking solid shots to the boiler room, heart/lung area. I could not believe the difference in the wound channels, between the 100gr. .243 and the 130gr. .270. It was night and day. The .270Win. knocked deer down, no matter at what range, from 25yds., out to 300yds. I logged each deer taken and the difference in experience between the .243 and .270 was glaring.
I appreciate your input, and if you believe that a premium bullet in the .243Win., like the 95gr. AB will make a difference on mule deer, I will get Storm the trigger job on that rifle and have her go with it.
Best,
Steven in DeLand, FL
Click to expand...

Steven, here is the 100gr PT. Blasted into water jugs and penetrates and expands like crazy. NO deer is walking away from one of these in the boiler room.

DSC_2972.jpg
 
Steven- Plenty of good advice already given to you. With all the new bullets being developed you can't go wrong. A 243 will kill a large muley just fine. I wouldn't hesitate to use mine at ranges past 300 yards either. I think your wife will be just fine. More important IMO is load her up as many rounds as you can and let her practice as much as possible. Get her comfortable with the rifle. Once comfortable have her practice shooting from say shooting sticks, off a backpack even offhand. I know she will be ready come 2012!
 
Steve, one thing I've learned about arming women, is they tend to care a whole lot more about "pretty" then we do. Although the Sweed sounds like it shoots great groups, it may not meat her astetic needs.

A wife who enjoys our sport is priceless, and should be treated as such. I say buy her a new gun, anything she wants. Just be sure to fit the length of pull the HER, and put an excellent recoil pad on it.
Click to expand...

I just had to laugh when I read this. I "had" a Rem Model 7 SS in a 243. I put it in a Grey Camo stock and have to admit it was a nice clean little gun. Out of the blue my wife after 18 years of marriage at the time says "I could hunt with this gun, IT's PRETTY!!". History has shown 5 shots later in 4 years have resulted in 5 deer. 4 with the 100gn PT and one with the 90gn Scirroco. As a matter of fact the Deer gun I presently use is a 243 I put together and shooting 95gn BT.

I would not want to be on the other end of a 243 100gn PT. Big things happen in that little package.
 
You wont hear me admit this very often, but the 243 is actually balistically better (on paper any way) than my 250-3000 Savage and I have never felt that I was under gunned. It has taken an antelope at 264 yards, broke the near side fore leg punched a hole through both lungs and kept going. This is with a 100Gr. BT. The one caution I would give, is not to expect the deer to drop like it was hit by lightning. It might, but particularly at range you might just get a killing shot :roll: . If she expects to see a "bang flop" at 300 yards a little heads up and encouragemnt may be in order. If you (or the lady) need that, then a 300 WSM and a brake may be in order but I wuldnt recomend it :grin: Shoot a 243 well, and within its limits and they will go down. CL
 
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