25-06 or 6.5 Creedmoor

[filmjunkie4ever]

Seriously what is the hatred for the 6.5 creedmoor? It’s an excellent cartridge design. It’s available in a lot of rifles, loaded ammo. There really isn’t anything bad about it. It’s kind of embarrassing how some of you go on about it.


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If you have to ask, you wouldn't understand. :grin:

358 WCF,

Please elaborate. Inquiring minds want to know.

JD338

I think for me the intense dislike for the Creedmoor isn’t only the subculture of wannabe snipers (which are quite annoying) but the dudes who have read a couple of outdoor life articles and now think every other cartridge is suddenly only a brush gun. “The .30-06 has had its time,” and “my .300 Blackout shoots 220 grain bullets so it’s a better long distance load than your .308” are two particularly infuriating comments that I hear quite often. All of the sudden B.C. is the idol we need to worship, and nothing else matters.

Some of it is only in good fun I understand but I get tired of these cretins constantly vomiting about the 6.5 Creedmoor and then bashing everything else which came before it (and will likely outlast it) in the next paragraph.

I will concede that it’s a well designed, effective cartridge within its limits but the .30-06 it isn’t and never will it be. If Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez was a cartridge, she’d be the 6.5 Creedmoor.


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[DrMike]

If Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez was a cartridge, she’d be the 6.5 Creedmoor.


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Ouch! What a slam on the 6.5 Creed!

On the whole, you are spot on; I heartily agree with your assessment. But the Creed will still be with us for many years. AOC? Perhaps not.

 

[Blkram]

The 250 HillBilly and the 250 AI are practically the same cartridge; just different parent cases (250 Savage vs 6.5 CM).

Man buns and internet wizards are a reality today, and we are not as likely to see either use what we used to consider as "common sense" in their rationale of their championed choices. The younger generation's thought process is not the same as we grew up with.

Bashing the CM just because a certain group adores it so much, is the same as hating your neighbour's dog because of its owner.

It is just a good thing that we have so many choices to choose from and that we have such a variety of game and environments in which to shoot and hunt; so as long as we choose ones that make sense to us, and support others in their freedom to do the same, then the past time that we care so much for will continue to exist and many of the products we desire will continue to be produced.

How else can we explain why the 45-70 lever action is at an all time high in popularity?
Because for its intended purpose, it still works, and people are still buying them!

We need to celebrate that the past time we enjoy so much is not dead!

 

[mjcmichigan]

Not sure of the linkage with AOC, I think of all the crazy things she said that are blatantly untrue. And she’s praised endlessly even with those gaffs.

The 6.5mm performs pretty well for a 6.5. Like you said, it’s no 30.06.

If I was looking at something in that class I’d be going higher or lower.
25.06 or 257 WBy, or 7mm-08, 7wsm, or 7remmag.

If I wanted a ho hum cartridge I’d go with 243win. (Still a nice cartridge, but not my cup of tea.)

I guess I love all cartridges, just more if they are bigger and faster..

[emoji57]


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[DrMike]

I guess I love all cartridges, just more if they are bigger and faster..

[emoji57]


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And that is difficult to say with politicians, especially those who are of a decidedly socialistic bent. :wink:

 

[coop22250]

So I have to say, I avoided the CM due to the above reasons, I can shot it 5000 yds because of its velocity/BC/SD, every day. I even bought a 260 in order to avoid one haha.

Here’s my takeaway- 2700 FPS will kill anything, with the right bullet, seeing as I don’t shoot long range as the sneaking is the fun part to me, not the shooting. BC, Speed, holding velocity longer etc etc just doesn’t mean anything to me as I’m getting close (300yd max) or not shooting.

All that being said, I traded for a CM last year for a future gun for my 6 year old because let’s be honest, they aren’t getting cheaper! It’s very pleasant to shoot, my wife used the 140 PT on a mature caribou bull(260), Did the job perfectly.

I’ve had a 25-05 in a ruger tang with an octagon barrel, was a sweet gun, I didn’t like the super light bullet assortment, I like overweight bullets, so that was a downer for me. Unless I used all copper everything seemed to explode, and I didn’t like that, but I hadn’t “discovered” PT bullets then, so they may work fine.

I’m not anti CM, but I am anti crazy new shooters thinking it’s the baddest round made. It’s sweet, easy to load, easy to shoot, but it’s not the do it all round in my opinion, but I can tell you of at least 50 Alaskan moose killed with a 243, so there is that....heck one guy I know on a sheep hunt put a griz down with one after his buddy shot it with a magnum, but I wouldn’t recommend that as a regular practice.


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[ShadeTree]

Nothing wrong with the 6.5 CM cartridge, in fact it's a good cartridge, but to basically repeat what has already been said, within the ranges 99.9% of the people that buy that cartridge will ever use it at, it does nothing a 260 or 6.5x55 already does.

I've avoided it also for many of the reasons stated above. I'll let it at that and keep some thoughts to myself.

Maybe that's a dumb reason to avoid something that's otherwise good by itself, but that's human nature, or mine anyways.

 

[DrMike]

I've avoided it also for many of the reasons stated above. I'll let it at that and keep some thoughts to myself.

Maybe that's a dumb reason to avoid something that's otherwise good by itself, but that's human nature, or mine anyways.

For years I refused to own either a 30-06 or a 308 because they were so common. My prejudice was irrational and exposed me as being overly opinionated, but it was my choice. One's reason for avoiding a firearm is valid if for no other reason than it is the opinion of the one holding that opinion. And as the old saying goes, "Opinions are like armpits--everyone has a couple, and sometimes they stink." I doubt that I would have ever bothered to buy a 6.5 Creedmoor, but BlkRam had bought a right-handed rifle chambered in the round, and wanted to divest himself of the rifle so he could get a left-handed rifle. Ergo, I became the owner of a 6.5 CM, which I still haven't shot all that much. I devoted much more time to the 260 Rem and didn't see any real advantage of the 6.5 CM. May have to work up a load, just to say I did it.

 

[cloverleaf]

Things noted above: "2700 fps will kill anything that walks...." "Most wont be used...at that range". Yup, so a 25-06 and the 6.5, and my lowly 250 Savage will do the job. Use a god bullet, within its limits, put in the right place, and the results are the same. Buy what you like, feels good and you can shoot well and trade it if you want to try the other. Or if you just enjoy the debate...... CL

 

[358 WCF]

Seriously what is the hatred for the 6.5 creedmoor? It’s an excellent cartridge design. It’s available in a lot of rifles, loaded ammo. There really isn’t anything bad about it. It’s kind of embarrassing how some of you go on about it.


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If you have to ask, you wouldn't understand. :grin:

358 WCF,

Please elaborate. Inquiring minds want to know.

JD338

Just dropped in & saw this. It's late so there may be some typos. No coffee tonight. There's a real live gunshow happening tomorrow & I need a few things so need to sleep soon. The Creedmoor series is little more than any number of old wildcats based on Charles Newton's 250 Savage with varying shoulder angles etc. with a slightly longer (.008") case. I had a hunter class bench gun in 6x250 RCBS Improved (28*?) for a short time that would have worked better if hi-quality brass was available for it in the late 80s/early 90s. A 6 Creedmoor for all purposes. This was also virtually the same thing as the 6mm International... there are a few other variations.

Blasphemy, I know, but there's nothing magic about it, it's not the greatest thing since sliced bread, it is not a laser beam, & a large %age of the people swooning over all things Creedmoor have no idea of its pedigree. It still boggles my mind that it took so many folks so long to figure out that 6.5 has such wonderful external ballistics without beating the snot out of your shoulder even without overly long VLD bullets that require weirdly steep twists. We built my buddy a 6.5-308 throated for 140 Sierra MKs for shooting up to 1000 yd. hi-power matches a decade before the 260 Rem came out, even before that Tubbs guy won a pile of medals with something similar. I would still prefer a 260 to the 6.5 Creedmoor that lives in the closet here. My 6.5x55 does about the same things as 260 or Creedmoor but it has a sloping case & is an outdated design... or something... more than 100 years old.

Someone on another site is scheming up a great new 25 cal. version of Creedmoor. It strikes me as full circle irony. Betting they can get 3000 fps with a 100 gr. or even a 120gr. bullet with the newer powders. Maybe they can call it the 250-3000 or something. Those who dont study history get to repeat it? Guess I'm just an old curmudgeon. There's damned little new under the sun & I marvel at the powers of marketing & hearsay. I bought one.

 

[ShadeTree]

I've avoided it also for many of the reasons stated above. I'll let it at that and keep some thoughts to myself.

Maybe that's a dumb reason to avoid something that's otherwise good by itself, but that's human nature, or mine anyways.

For years I refused to own either a 30-06 or a 308 because they were so common. My prejudice was irrational and exposed me as being overly opinionated, but it was my choice. One's reason for avoiding a firearm is valid if for no other reason than it is the opinion of the one holding that opinion. And as the old saying goes, "Opinions are like armpits--everyone has a couple, and sometimes they stink." I doubt that I would have ever bothered to buy a 6.5 Creedmoor, but BlkRam had bought a right-handed rifle chambered in the round, and wanted to divest himself of the rifle so he could get a left-handed rifle. Ergo, I became the owner of a 6.5 CM, which I still haven't shot all that much. I devoted much more time to the 260 Rem and didn't see any real advantage of the 6.5 CM. May have to work up a load, just to say I did it.

I get the common thing. There was a time I felt the same way about the 30-06. Nowdays it's easier to shoot an 06 and still be different as it's now considered an old has been by the "in" crowd.

The reasons concerning the CM run a little deeper than just everybody has one, but maybe it was the same in the 700's hay day for example. History tends to repeat itself.

 

[DrMike]

History tends to repeat itself.

Yup.

 

[Cleveland48]

Huge fan of the 6.5 CM. Ive owned 4 so far lol, along with 260 rem and 6.5 swede. Brother used to always have 25/06 and it was wonderful deer cartridge. Always wanted 25/06, but aint got one yet. So I would probably choose 25/06, or go wildcat 6.5/06 lol

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[cloverleaf]

Again- at the turn of the century, Charles Newton knew something. The 250 Savage with a 100gr bullet, not the 87gr. that the marketing guys finally got. Look up the 256 Newton (Gasp- a 6.5mm). CL

 

[coop22250]

Again- at the turn of the century, Charles Newton knew something. The 250 Savage with a 100gr bullet, not the 87gr. that the marketing guys finally got. Look up the 256 Newton (Gasp- a 6.5mm). CL

So I did look up the 256 newton. That’s a really weird name for a .264 caliber. Why not the 264 Newton? That thing was ahead of its time, 3000 FPS with a 140gr. Basically the original 6.5-06. Pretty impressive considering people are getting that out of the latest greatest 6.5’s. A few fast but dang cool read


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[gerry]

Again- at the turn of the century, Charles Newton knew something. The 250 Savage with a 100gr bullet, not the 87gr. that the marketing guys finally got. Look up the 256 Newton (Gasp- a 6.5mm). CL

So I did look up the 256 newton. That’s a really weird name for a .264 caliber. Why not the 264 Newton? That thing was ahead of its time, 3000 FPS with a 140gr. Basically the original 6.5-06. Pretty impressive considering people are getting that out of the latest greatest 6.5’s. A few fast but dang cool read


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I believe it was measured from the lands instead of the grooves. Kind of like 300 WSM and 308 Win are both correct. It was a really impressive round that should have been more popular.



When the Creedmoor was announced I was pretty ticked off being a 260 Rem and 6.5x55 user. I understand it's better in a 2.8" magazine than the 260 but what's funny now a lot of short actions are 3.00" or better these days so there isn't any advantage. What was also funny is how people all of a sudden realised how well long 6.5 mm bullets performed. Well they do and have since about 1894 All that said the 6.5 Creedmoor eventually took of thanks to Hornady and I have no real issues with it, not going to get rid of my 260 or 6.5x55 though for something that performs about the same.

The 25-06 is a neat round too, pretty tough choice in which one to choose.

 

[Slimfinn]

Oh Easy!! If you are set on the 700 Mountain, with its 22" barrel I would go with the 6.5. For a light weight 25 I would still want a 24" barrel.

I have been away for a while but and finally had some free time to catch up here. I will say this was a fun read and I even chuckled a few times. Not long ago I had a similar thought 25-06 vs 260, currently owe both but in different type rifles(heavy barrel almost varmint weight, and light weight hunting rifle) But what I was trying to decide was which one to buy in the others configuration. I never did decide...yet. The 6.5cm itself doesn't do much for me I like my 260's and have been shooting them longer then that 6.5 has been around. Like you said it is splitting hairs and my knife is still a little dull.