280 velocities

[longwinters]

What velocities (proven by chrony) are you getting out of your 280 rifle. Please note what barrel length and bullet weights you are shooting. I have been shooting 140 Accubonds with 58gns of H4831 and only getting 2800fps out of a 22 7/8" barrel. I read all over that this should be close to a 3000fps bullet/load combination. I am just shaking my head in wonder. :?

Long

 

[Eagleye]

LW; I have a Remington 700 Mountain Rifle chambered in 280 Remington. [22", blued barrel, hinged floorplate, Walnut MR Stock] I have loaded only 140's and 150's in this rifle. I shoot the 140 AccuBond with 59.0 grains of Norma MRP for 3050 across the chrony. [I originally thought it was my 58 grain load that did this, but it is the 59 grain load that does] With the 150 Partition, I get 3011 avg with the same load. With the 150 Partition I am getting 2936 avg with 57.5 grains of the same powder. All three bullets will shoot the first three rounds into a group of 1" or less. This load is in R-P brass and fired by the excellent WLR primer. Regards, Eagleye.

 

[longwinters]

Wow, now that is what I am looking for. Today it was a clear sky and the sun was at an angle to the chrony instead of right over it. Do you think this would make a difference? My chrony is a Chrony Beta. The reads seem consistent with whatever rifle I am shooting but the two times I have used it the velocities seem to be about 150 - 200 fps slower than I should be getting (according to my research).

Concerning accuracy I shot 3 bullets into the same slightly enlarged hole and the 4th one less than 1/2" out. I am not a great shot but my 280 is the most accurate rifle I have ever owned.

Long

 

[Eagleye]

LW; I also have the Chrony Beta. I have compared it to others a couple of times and the difference was negligible [2-8 fps] However, the Chronys are sensitive to bright sunlight, and I prefer to do my 'graphing on overcast days, since I do get more consistent readings then. I keep records so that different sessions can be compared. My experience leads me to believe that bright, sunny days are not ideal ones to chronograph loads. Regards, Eagleye.

 

[Anonymous]

What primers are you using in your 280 Remington load Longwinters? There could be several variables working here to give you slower velocities than you expected. I'm scratching my head too, but I am wondering if your primer isn't quite hot enough for a more complete powder burn in your load/ barrel length combination. Maybe try Eagleye's Winchester WLR primers and start over working your way up with your load? However since your accuracy is good/great I'd be inclined to call it a day. To me only accurate rifles are interesting. IMHO.

 

[longwinters]

Thanks for the help guys. I am using Federal primers as that seems to be what a couple of my reloading books recommend. But I do have Winchester and CCI primers so will try them also. But like you said Nosler, if the accuracy falls off much then I will stick with my existing load and live with the velocities. But I really want it all :lol: :lol:

Long

 

[Lou270]

The chrony is the ultimate truth serum. I have some guns that are "slow" compared to expected results and some that are "fast". I wouldn't loose sleep over a 100 fps or so, but understand your desire to get what you expect out of your rifle. I have a .280 remington 700 Mt Rifle w/ 22" barrel. Below is some data on what I consider max loads in my rifle. All results are for Rem cases and Fed 210M primers. Your results may vary, so work up. Most of the readings were averages (i.e. not highest reported) taken 70-80C, so velocity will be a bit lower at cold temps / faster for high temps with most powders.

55 gr IMR-4831 140 Nos BTIP ~2875 fps (favorite accuracy load)
57 gr IMR-4831 140 Nos BTIP ~2975 fps
57 gr IMR-4831 150 Nos Part ~2910 fps
56 gr IMR-4831 154 Hornady Sp ~2840 fps
58 gr H-4831 150 Nos Par ~2830 fps
57 gr H-4831 160 Nos Part ~2800 fps
57 gr IMR-4350 139 Horn SP ~2980 fps

I have some other data, but most other powders I tried were in this range. I think you should be able to get 2950-3000 fps with a 140 grain bullet and 22" of barrel.

-Lou

 

[longwinters]

Well, I guess I have a couple of things to try. Different primers and shooting thru the Chrony on an overcast day instead of in full bright sunlight. I am shooting a hotter load than Lou (58gn H4831 with 140 AccuBond, Fed primer and Win case) and showing 100fps slower. Hopefully Saturday will give me a cloudy day.

Long

 

[fredj338]

My .280 is a custom job w/ 23" PacNor bbl. I don't have the exact load info. in fornt of me, but I have several loads that reach 3050fps safely w/ several powders. I wasn't really happy w/ vel. in mine using H4831sc, then switched to IMR7828 & it's THE powder in my .280 w/ 150-160gr bullets. It also does well w/ 140-145gr bullets. When I get home I'll look up the exact recipes.

 

[longwinters]

Thanks Fred. I would never have thought that 7828 would be a good powder for 280. Would have thought it was to slow a burner. Thanks for the tip.

Long

 

[Seedsntrees]

Hello Long,

From my experience, different primer brands will effect consistency, not large gains in velocity. Try a differnt powder. I have settled for RL 22 and Federal primers, Winchester case. I'm sure that there might be other powders that will provide the "high" velocities, but I handload a load that produces accuracy, consistency and the maximum velocity. I think you will find that the 280 starts to really perform when it is loaded near the top.

Each barrel has a different taste for FUEL!

Don't go beating on the CHRONY!

 

[fredj338]

OK LW, here are some loads that all hit 3000fps + w/ a 140gr bullets:
58gr H4831sc
59gr IMT7828
57gr RL19
56.5gr IMR4831
Give IMR7828 a try especially w/ 150-160gr bulelts. It did ok w/ 140-145gr too, just not quite as fast but I still hit 3000fps. All loads use Fed210 or 210M primers in RP brass. H4831sc, RL22 & IMR7828,in that order, are very close in burn rate. For some reason RL22 isn't as accurate in my .280.
Your barrel could have a long or worn throat, this would reduce vel. more than a primer change. Try increasing charge weight by 1/2gr at a time & work up until you see pressures.
I like the heavier bullet weights in the .280. 57gr IMR7828 give me an easy 2800fps w/ the 160grNP or NAB.

 

[longwinters]

Well, had an overcast day today so gave it another try with the H4831 and Nosler AccuBond bullets. This is out of my Sako 280 with 22 7/8" barrel. Tryed my regular load and also the same thing with CCI primers. I also had a buddy come along and try the same loads out of his Browning Stainless Stalker with a 22" barrel.

Results were identical as in full sun light. Out of my rifle 2800fps average. Out of his with the barrel about an inch shorter average was 2764 fps. When testing the duplicate loads, only with CCI primers instead of Federal, there was no difference in FPS.

So, except for trying a different Chrony, which I doubt will make a difference, looks like this is where I am staying. I don't really mind it especially with the accuracy I am getting, but still do not understand the velocity differences when compared to others experiences.

Long

 

[yeayow]

I didn't read all the posts but using quick load your original recipe says it should be coming out at 2829 fps second which is pretty much what you got. According to quickload 55.9 grs. of h4350 might be a better MAX load to work up to. It says it should do 2954 with the 140 gr. AccuBond.

 

[Chris Everett]

I have a 98 with 24" adams and bennett barrel. My pet load is: Nosler 140 solid base. Winchester brass and Wlr primer. Powder is Reloader 22 @60.0 grains. In my rifle I get sub half inch groups that average out at 3130fps over a chrony with an SD of 2. I don't show any pressure but suggest you work up .

 

[41mag]

I bought a .280 several years back in a Ruger 77 Varminter. Yep it came straight from the source with a 24" bull tube on it. IT was second hand but after an internal inspection I just couldn't pass on it. I had inteneded to ream it out to an AI. Anyways the smith told me to see if it would shoot to begin with before dropping in more $$ on a dog. So the work began. After trying several combinations it started hitting one hole groups. I was well pleased. Since I was just working for groups to start with I hadn't bothered to bring the chrony out. When I did, I was surprised to find that instead of the 2800fps range load I should have been getting, I was only hittin 2250 - 2300.

After checking everything several times over, I called muiltiple sources for help. Then after talking to one of the techs at a testing facility, whom I had spoke with on numerous occaisions, I was told that every once in a great while for what ever reason comes along a barrel like mine. His recommendation was to use my factory case measurements, set up the chrony, and keep dumping powder in till I got the first signs of pressure or the velocity I was supposed to have. Well, I had tried everything else and after rechecking the case dim,s on what I had loaded, against the factory, I went for it. In slow increments, the velocity crept up as accuracy went south. Then in a half grain increment, bingo it all came together. The cases measured right there with the first box of factory I put through it, and I was back to the one hole groups. It was also sitting right there in the 2850fps range where it was supposed to be with the 140's.

Yes I was a couple grains over what the books said I should have been, however there were absolutely no signs of high pressure as are commonly noted on cases. The primers were still nicely round on the edges and no shiney spots on the heads. I let bygons be what they may and kept the load. I did however find out that this was a limited run rifle, and so just for kicks I cleaned her all up and slipped her away in the back of the cabinet for the grandkid to have one day. Might net ever be worth anything but who knows.

AS has been mentioned every rifle is different, and book velocities are sometimes not actual in your loads, no matter what your shooting. So someitmes your just left to your own to decide where to draw the line. Since I had pleanty of experience in loading I was not worried about the overpressure issue since I had not noted even the slightest signs of it. I have been there, done that on several other rifles even before reaching mid range loads in books. So sometimes you have to trust your equipment as well as your own judgement and experience. This may sound out of left field, but in reality you do it on every single case you assemble.

As for the sunny day chrony thing, I have found that if I take a spare target and attach it to the uprights on mine with clothes pins or small pieces of tape, it will diffuse the mid day sun to decent levels. On clear bluebird days, I generally start off in the mornings with it installed and use it till I am done. It will sometimes also help out on a cloudy day by giving a constant back drop as the bullet passes the eyes.

 

[longwinters]

Good post guys.

I wish I could shoot with some of the guys who have posted here just to check apples with apples. I keep thinking maybe I am missing something.

To hear someone say "2850fps where it should be" is very helpful when many seem to get much higher velocities. Although I have quit crying in my soup a while ago, I still want to have top velocity and accuracy.

Actually now I am obsessing over a Sako 308 that I have trying to get better than .75 accuracy. I know there is nothing wrong with this level of accuracy, but I want better. :wink:

Long

 

[41mag]

Sometimes it is the smallest change that will drop your group size. Just might need to tighten a screw or loosen one just a tad. Might have a slight rub on the barrel or action from the stock causing undue pressure, or added vibration.

About the 2850 range, in my above post. Well it actually should have been a couple hundered feet faster for the load I was shooting. However, the top end load that I started out thinking I was at, should have been 2850, so I was happy to get there. LOL Besides at 100 yds, with that load sometimes I had to actually walk to the target to see the added bullets in the group. Most times however for a 5 shot group, it would only show 3 maybe 4 edges of where they hit the sides of the same hole. I even had my brother in law think I was yanking his chain once when he shot it several times. He thought I had loaded up one good load and several blanks in behind it, till he got his target.

In reguards to 2800 fps however, I have found that just because most of the rifles I have will exceed this in one bullet or another, it doesn't always mean that they will kill any quicker or that the bullet will work anymore suitable. Most that I keep in this range use the Ballistic tips, and accuracy, expansion, as well as one shot kills have been wonderful without wasting a lot of meat like I hear a lot about. In fact our 270 shoots a load of 46.5grs of 3031 for a velocity of just under 2800 and we only shoot the 130 gr bt's in it, Yes it can go faster but it also rocks your world being that the whole rig weighs in at around 7 pounds. As well the 130's have hit everything, at every range we have pointed them at, and except for one hog my daughter shot at over 350 yards, it has all dropped in it's tracks. The hog we found two days later in a creek about 50 yds from where she shot it. A clean through and through shot, just a tough critter.

Hang in there your groups have room to shrink some, however like you mentioned what you got ain't shabby, and for hunting, I have yet to hear the first person tell me that they missed the tick they were aiming at.

 

[Seedsntrees]

I suggest trying Reloader 22, Federal Match primer, Winchester case, 140 Grn Nosler and you will find 3,000+FPS from a 22 inch barrel. I have tried this load on three different rifles. Shoots Great!