300 win mag vs. 30-06

[3006savage]

I live in Pennsylvania and I bought an 06 as an all around caliber. It is inexpensive to shoot factory ammo and I feel it can handle anything outside of a grizzly safely. But if I lived out west and were hunting elk every year not every 3 - 4 years I would have bought a 300 WM or WSM.

That being said my 06 loaded with 200 grain accubonds will deliver 2,050 ft/lbs KE at 500 yards at my hunting altitude of 9,000 ft. With an impact velocity of 2,150 FPS that is well above the 1800 FPS recommended by nosler. Not to shabby for what many call a "marginal" elk cartridge.

 

[Richracer1]

I live in Pennsylvania and I bought an 06 as an all around caliber. It is inexpensive to shoot factory ammo and I feel it can handle anything outside of a grizzly safely. But if I lived out west and were hunting elk every year not every 3 - 4 years I would have bought a 300 WM or WSM.

That being said my 06 loaded with 200 grain accubonds will deliver 2,050 ft/lbs KE at 500 yards at my hunting altitude of 9,000 ft. With an impact velocity of 2,150 FPS that is well above the 1800 FPS recommended by nosler. Not to shabby for what many call a "marginal" elk cartridge.

30-06 "marginal" for elk - those that say that must have marginal intelligence. My personnal opinion, I would not use anything smaller than a 270 to hunt elk. Now, some have used smaller calibers with success, but shot placement is even more critical with those calibers.

 

[Hammerdown]

Okay I will say it too. 30-06.

I have made kill shots on game with a 30-06 up to five hundred yards.

They both will work fine. The Mag. will get the call if I think I need a 200 grain bullet.

Have a good day.

 

[hardpan]

Guys.
I will take all your words that you make killing shots at 500 yards with a 200 gr AB out of an 30-06. But the drop is a killer! All my examples are for flat at 300. For instance, using the max in the book, you are 5.1" high at 100 to be flat at 300, and 34 inches down at 500... striking the animal at about 1950 fps. and about 1700 foot lbs. You have to hold above the animal, so you better know your distances, wind, and velocities. I guide, and would not let a client take that shot for lots of reasons...

The win mag is 3.8 high at 100 and 27 low at 400. 300 yd zero and at 2140 fps. Enough to open the bullet and penetrate deep. Wby is only about 100 fps faster. Better, but still 3.6 at 100 and 25 low at 400.

For that long range, if the hunter can shoot a very tight group at 100, I recommend the .300 Rem Ultra Mag. 3 inches high at 100 and 21 low at 400. On a large elk, you still hold on meat! Still traveling at around 2400 fps! almost as fast as muzzle for the 30-06, and 2349 fps. Still, very few of my clients would take that shot, but they have the right rifle for it.

The 30-06 should not be purchased for long range ethical shots, but if you are good enough, then great. I STRONGLY recommend more gun, and the 300 RUM if you stay in 30 cal.... And I have a 300 wby and a 30-06
Hardpan

 

[DrMike]

Hardpan,

During lunch with my hunting buddy yesterday, we were discussing a new fellow at work who has been informing people that he routinely shoots very small groups with an SKS 7.62 X 39 at 600 yards, and often takes bears at extreme distance with the round. A fellow seated at the next table interjected himself into our conversation to inform us that he was a great shot, routinely taking elk at 500+ yards with a 7mm RM. Here in western Canada, we speak of those as "Newfie" yards.

Most of us are unable to estimate distance accurately, and many of us do not do enough shooting at distance to be accurate. Long distance shots are possible, but I question whether they are responsible for the average hunter. Three hundred yards is a long shot for the average hunter.

The 30-06 is capable of 500 yard shots, but I agree with Hardpan that a responsible hunter will use enough gun, adding that he will also practise with that particular rifle to ensure that he is capable of using it ethically.

Laker, the question you posed set the limits at 450 yards. Under those conditions, it is my opinion that the 300 WM is the better choice due to the increased velocity, which allows for a margin of error should the shot be less than ideal. Closer, there is less practical difference. Beyond that, more powder burned is a decided advantage.

 

[hardpan]

Dr Mike,
thanks. I have heard lots of similar stories to yours at lunch as i do a lot of hunting shows and expos. Most of the time, I just smile and congratulate the person... I have heard of 800 yards 1 shot kills with a 30-06, and the bullet dropped 2 feet. Clearly the wrong distance or just a tall tale.

But, generally, on this forum, the guys are pretty knowledgeable, so I can grant the benefit of the doubt. I try to keep the impact above 2000 fps and let that determine the max range of a gun for me. Of course, I would shoot a coyote at longer ranges, and any other vermin, but not a deer or elk.

Best,.
Hardpan

 

[DrMike]

Hardpan,

I agree that if a person practises and knows their rifle, such shots are not only possible, but readily doable. The problem is that many of those shooting do not practise. I agree that many of the fellows on this forum shoot their rifles. Unfortunately, they represent a small fraction of the shooting community. When you hear someone telling how they made a 600 yard shot, it raises some questions. Then you ask that person where their rifle is sighted and they tell you that it is sighted at 200 yards. When you then ask where they held on the moose or the elk, and they tell you that they held right on the centre of the chest, there is nothing else to do but to smile and walk away. It is not the fault of the rifle, because in most instances they are capable of putting holes in the side of the game. The problem is that many of those claiming such shots have never been anywhere near shooting at such yardages, or if they have they employed the WAG technique.

 

[hardpan]

Dr Mike.
+1 to that, brother.
Hardpan

 

[jhunter1010]

im sure both would do fine on elk out to 400-450 yards, however
the 300 win would provide the extra 300fps(if i remember correctly) that would make accurate hits easier at longer ranges.