I just ordered a Tikka 300 WSM w/ a 24" barrel. I was told that the balistics were very close between the two calibers and that the WSM had potential to be more accurate. I was also told that I wouldn't be as satisfied with a 24" barrel in a 300 Win mag, that the win mag needs a 26" barrel to get its advantage over the 300 WSM. Does anyone have an opinion based on experience on which cartridge is supperior?
300 WSM vs 300 Win Mag
- Thread starter Britz
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elkslayer308
Beginner
- Mar 27, 2006
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I have two rifles, one in each caliber and they both have 24 inch barrels. Now I have been able to beat the long mag for accuracy with the wsm yet the velocity wasnt beating the long mag. I can out run the long mag bullet weight for bullet weight except for the 150 grainers which are nearly tied. Both rifles are Win 70 classics. I have found that my 300 Win shoots a little better when not loaded to the gills but even when it is reduced, It still shoots accurately while out running the 300 Wsm. Usually by 100 fps or more. Yet the Wsm is a good caliber and seems to kick less than the long mag does. My accuracy load for the WSM is the 180gr AccuBond with 69grs of RL22 with a WLRM primer for 2940 fps. My accuracy load for the Win mag is the 200 gr AccuBond with 69grs of RL22 with a Fed 215 Primer for 2850 fps. Hope this helps.
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rick smith
Handloader
- Apr 6, 2005
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Every rifle is an individual. Potential accuracy is that, potential. Just because a case has the short, fat shape doesn't mean it is going to be accurate. I have both calibers and the WinMag out shoots the WSM in both velocity and accuracy. The Win Mag does not need a 26" barrel to do that, mine is 24". The WSM works at a higher pressure to get close to the WinMag but doesn't catch it. But for most hunting situations, you will not be able to tell the difference. This situation is about like comparing the 308 to the 30/06.Rick.
Desert Fox
Handloader
- Aug 14, 2006
- 1,965
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Everyone assumed that this will be the case but actually it's quite the contrary. The WSM didn't step up to the billing in the accuracy department. The 300 Win Mag on the other hand has been a proven performer, garnering it's share of winnings in the 1000 yards BR competitions. Ballistically speaking, the 300 Win Mag wins hands down in every category. Don't get caught up in the marketing hype. RJ
I have both rifles as well. They are both fine cartridges and either would be an excellent choice. I like my 300WSM better than my 300WM. It is smaller, lighter, has less felt recoil and will meet or beat my 300WM's velocity with all bullets up to and including 180gr. It will do this with less powder and less recoil. If you like the heavier bullets (over 180gr) then the 300WM is a far better choice.
SevenShooter
Beginner
- Mar 27, 2005
- 14
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The accuracy aspect will be dictated by the individual rifle more than the cartridge.
In a Tikka T-3 I would not get a WSM as the action they use is the same length as for the 300Win. If not getting a short-action gun, I would not get a short-action cartridge. The 300WM will be better, especially with the heavier bullets.
In a Tikka T-3 I would not get a WSM as the action they use is the same length as for the 300Win. If not getting a short-action gun, I would not get a short-action cartridge. The 300WM will be better, especially with the heavier bullets.
I would look more at the rifle than the cartridge. Today there is at least one nice light rifle made in the WSM's. Maybe you don't want a light rifle however but I do.
The 300 WM is very popular and larger than the 300 WSM however it seems as if the 300 WSM has caught on and will stay. The WSM's headspace on the shoulder and the 300 WM headspaces who knows where what with the sloppy brass thats made.
Get what you want and practice with it but I can tell you that there are a lot of hard kicking old guns out there in 300 WM. I prefer the Kimber 8400 myself in the WSMs for a magnum. What with the Decelarator pad and good stock that the Montana has its a much better rifle than any of the old 300 WMs that I have seen. Thats why I sold my 300 WM's.
The WSM's are easier to handload as well as they don't have that useless belt.
The 300 WM is very popular and larger than the 300 WSM however it seems as if the 300 WSM has caught on and will stay. The WSM's headspace on the shoulder and the 300 WM headspaces who knows where what with the sloppy brass thats made.
Get what you want and practice with it but I can tell you that there are a lot of hard kicking old guns out there in 300 WM. I prefer the Kimber 8400 myself in the WSMs for a magnum. What with the Decelarator pad and good stock that the Montana has its a much better rifle than any of the old 300 WMs that I have seen. Thats why I sold my 300 WM's.
The WSM's are easier to handload as well as they don't have that useless belt.
Alaska
Handloader
- Aug 20, 2006
- 942
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I have both the 300 WSM and 300 Win. The 300 WSM is more accurate between the two but the rifles are two different styles. The big advantage I see is the 300 Win being able to handle 190 gr and heavier bullets easier. My 300 WSM seem to digest the 165/180 real good. I will keep both!
rick smith
Handloader
- Apr 6, 2005
- 1,249
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Savage 99, you and I have had several discussions on different sites about the belted mags. You obiviously never learned how to headspace on the shoulder and feel it is necessary to continually make comment reguarding their use. Give it a rest. You have been verbally whipped on several sites because of this. Are you just that slow of a learner or just like to stir the pot?
Steve4102, sure some of the bite marks were mine but that discussion was based on advertizing hype.
I have nothing against the short mags, I currently own several of them. 257WSM, 7mmSAUM, 300SAUM and a 300WSM. I load for all of them. But I also own a couple of the belted variety 7mmRM and 300WM and load for several others. What I post is from experience with each of the cartridges. I don't post looking for an argument but will not back away from what I know to be true in my experience.Rick.
Steve4102, sure some of the bite marks were mine but that discussion was based on advertizing hype.
I have nothing against the short mags, I currently own several of them. 257WSM, 7mmSAUM, 300SAUM and a 300WSM. I load for all of them. But I also own a couple of the belted variety 7mmRM and 300WM and load for several others. What I post is from experience with each of the cartridges. I don't post looking for an argument but will not back away from what I know to be true in my experience.Rick.
Me verbally whipped?? Your making that up as a debate tactic.
Everything that I wrote about the design defect in belted bottlenecked cartridges is 100% correct and has been agreed with by anyone who cares to investigate the facts and not just say that they don't understand it.
Everything that I wrote about the design defect in belted bottlenecked cartridges is 100% correct and has been agreed with by anyone who cares to investigate the facts and not just say that they don't understand it.
rick smith
Handloader
- Apr 6, 2005
- 1,249
- 0
Lets see, I know your handle from 24hour campfire and hunt America anyone interested can do a search there can read for themselves.
The design defect you refer to allows us to safely load and shoot belted mag cases many times without a problem. Think "headspace on the shoulder" after the first firing. But you think the damage is done by the first firing and we loaders of belted cases are living on the edge. Almost scared to ask what you think about wildcat or AI brass.Rick.
The design defect you refer to allows us to safely load and shoot belted mag cases many times without a problem. Think "headspace on the shoulder" after the first firing. But you think the damage is done by the first firing and we loaders of belted cases are living on the edge. Almost scared to ask what you think about wildcat or AI brass.Rick.
Its not living on the edge Rick. Its just understanding that the design of a belted bottlenecked case needs more clearance at the shoulder due to the accumulation of design tolerances.
If you had the drawings, which it seems that you still don't and that you could read them or get someone to read them for you it would be obvious.
You keep living in a dream world Rick where you can't see dents that very well may be on your cases right now and refuse to look at the facts. Take a look at the latest thread on 24 hr on this and see that some belted rounds are as much as .043" off on headspace. This of course is way beyond the design drawing tolearances.
"Man is a credulous animal, and must believe something; in the absence of good grounds for belief, he will be satisfied with bad ones."
Bertrand Russell
If you had the drawings, which it seems that you still don't and that you could read them or get someone to read them for you it would be obvious.
You keep living in a dream world Rick where you can't see dents that very well may be on your cases right now and refuse to look at the facts. Take a look at the latest thread on 24 hr on this and see that some belted rounds are as much as .043" off on headspace. This of course is way beyond the design drawing tolearances.
"Man is a credulous animal, and must believe something; in the absence of good grounds for belief, he will be satisfied with bad ones."
Bertrand Russell
rick smith":4umwthth said:
Rimless fireformed cartridges such as invented by Lysle Kilbourn and copied later by Ackley and Huntington properly headspace on the junction of the neck and shoulder with .004" negative headspace. So if this is done right there is really no headspace and these work out ok.
The belted improved cartridges are why we are in this discussion. They of course headspace on the belt and blow the shoulder forward pulling metal from the expansion web. In this they are worse than factory ammo as they pull even more metal.
On wildcats you need to be specific as many are die formed to fit the chamber and if this is the situation then they are not a problem with case thinning.
Hope that this clears things up for you.
Rick,
Here is the thread on the latest fiasco with belted cases that I mentioned above.
"Well I realy thoght it was just winchester cases but I was resizing some 416rem. And after messuering the sholder on Virgin brass it is .043 off ( short) its like I need to fire form the dang stuf to get it right If I do all 150 rds it will cost me about 180 bucks just to fire form.
I know they'l work that's not the point I just wish they were closer form the factory!!!!!!!!!!!! "
Here is the thread on the latest fiasco with belted cases that I mentioned above.
"Well I realy thoght it was just winchester cases but I was resizing some 416rem. And after messuering the sholder on Virgin brass it is .043 off ( short) its like I need to fire form the dang stuf to get it right If I do all 150 rds it will cost me about 180 bucks just to fire form.
I know they'l work that's not the point I just wish they were closer form the factory!!!!!!!!!!!! "
rick smith
Handloader
- Apr 6, 2005
- 1,249
- 0
Savage 99, hope you can save me, I am living in a dream world and can't see dents in my cases plus I don't have or can't read the "drawnings". How in the world have I lasted for 40+ years of loading. My belted mag loads have been taken to Alaska and Africa and used to kill Caribou, Brown bear, Cape Buffalo, Zebra, and a host of other game. In the lower 48 they have taken most game suitable for those calibers. And as of yet my friends and I have survived. I assure you, my cases don't have the dents. Instead of complaining about the die on several boards, send it back for inspection.
You have not proven your points to anyone on any of the boards. If you don't like or don't want to load belted cases, no problem with that. You might even say that you think moving the shoulder forward on belted mags frightens you.
I will just stay in my dream world, the voices just keep telling me to quit talking with you and go load some more belted mags.Rick.
You have not proven your points to anyone on any of the boards. If you don't like or don't want to load belted cases, no problem with that. You might even say that you think moving the shoulder forward on belted mags frightens you.
I will just stay in my dream world, the voices just keep telling me to quit talking with you and go load some more belted mags.Rick.
I don't mean to stir the pot or hijack this thread but I bought my 338 5 years ago-(the only belted case I have) and I have no problems reloading it-(not taking anybodies side here) but I can get 3/4 inch groups with my 338 handloads. I full length resize and I've never had any problems. I use this rifle strickly for hunting and use exclusively 225 accubonds. Like I said I don;t have alot of experiance loading belted cases so I must be missing something here. I use the accubonds in all my rifles-(7mm ultra, 300 ultra, 338 win and I just picked up a 300wsm). Again sorry if I ruffled any feathers here.
rick smith
Handloader
- Apr 6, 2005
- 1,249
- 0
Savage99, thank you.
NTM, no problem with me on your thread. Hundreds of loaders load thousands of belted mags every year without a problem. I neck size mine until they start to get tight in the chamber. Then size them to fit the chamber and bump the shoulder back 1-2 thousants.Rick.
NTM, no problem with me on your thread. Hundreds of loaders load thousands of belted mags every year without a problem. I neck size mine until they start to get tight in the chamber. Then size them to fit the chamber and bump the shoulder back 1-2 thousants.Rick.
