- Thread starter
- #41
- Nov 4, 2004
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Nothing ventured, nothing gained! :lol:
Give the E-Tip a try.
JD338
Give the E-Tip a try.
JD338
338 cal 200 gr E-Tip
- Thread starter JD338
- Start date
Well guys and dolls ( if there are any on this site)
I finally shot some 200gr E-tips out of my .338 win mag this morrning.
Starting load 66gr. of H4350 gave a vel. of 2770 fps.and worked up to 73.5gr for a speed of 3028. Still 200 fps slower than my BT. load but still 3.5 gr less than that charge too. Still no presure signs so I guess it is back to the reloading room and carrying on ward and up ward. :roll:
I finally shot some 200gr E-tips out of my .338 win mag this morrning.
Starting load 66gr. of H4350 gave a vel. of 2770 fps.and worked up to 73.5gr for a speed of 3028. Still 200 fps slower than my BT. load but still 3.5 gr less than that charge too. Still no presure signs so I guess it is back to the reloading room and carrying on ward and up ward. :roll:
- Thread starter
- #43
- Nov 4, 2004
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6 K
Be careful, pressure spikes show up fast.
JD338
Be careful, pressure spikes show up fast.
JD338
Antelope_Sniper
Handloader
- Jan 25, 2008
- 2,618
- 0
I load 77gr of H4350 with the 200gr BT, but only with the BSST. It a very max load with the standard BT's. Considering how the E-tip tend to hit max pressure a little early, I'd be a little leary about shoving that much H4350 behind a 200gr E-tip....I'm not saying it can't be done.....just work up slowly and make sure you have your bullet puller ready. :wink:
Well I am back from second trip to the range for developing my e-tip load. I did safely fire 77.gr loads but without getting the fps of my BT. load. Max vel. was 3170 fps.
Now I hate to sound like I just fell off the pumpkin cart but, you seldom get answers with out asking questions so here goes.
Have any of you out there seen a steady decline in speed with a increase in charge? I think I might have heard that it was a high pressure sign some place a lifetime ago, but can't be sure.
Here are some of the results from this morning:
POWDER H4350
BULLET 200GR. E-TIP
GR. VEL. IN F.P.S.
75 =3110
75.5 =3152
76 =3157
76 =3160
76.5 =3137
76.5 =3140
77 =3116
77 =3105
All of the above loads are compressed as the bullets are longer and have to be seated deeper than BTs
A little strange to me that they are slowing down, but maybe that extra powder in a cramped space is simply not allowing proper burning? Or could it be that chrony was out of alinement or something?The velocities seem to be consistant though.
What do you guys think?
6 K
Now I hate to sound like I just fell off the pumpkin cart but, you seldom get answers with out asking questions so here goes.
Have any of you out there seen a steady decline in speed with a increase in charge? I think I might have heard that it was a high pressure sign some place a lifetime ago, but can't be sure.
Here are some of the results from this morning:
POWDER H4350
BULLET 200GR. E-TIP
GR. VEL. IN F.P.S.
75 =3110
75.5 =3152
76 =3157
76 =3160
76.5 =3137
76.5 =3140
77 =3116
77 =3105
All of the above loads are compressed as the bullets are longer and have to be seated deeper than BTs
A little strange to me that they are slowing down, but maybe that extra powder in a cramped space is simply not allowing proper burning? Or could it be that chrony was out of alinement or something?The velocities seem to be consistant though.
What do you guys think?
6 K
Antelope_Sniper
Handloader
- Jan 25, 2008
- 2,618
- 0
Yes, I have seen it before in the .270 Winchester.
With H4831, a 130gr bullet, and resized army brass, my velocities max out at 59.5 grains of powder. However, in a 26" barrel the same load will continue gaining velocity with Winchester brass all the way up to 62.5 grains of powder. This is one of the hidden gifts of a long barrel. It gives you a larger usable powder capacity.
Bottom line is, you've run out of barrel.
I was checking my notes last night.
In a .338 Win Mag with a 26" tube, I'm getting 3190 with the following load:
200gr BSST
77gr H4350
Win Brass
WMRP
This load is a little on the warm side, and should not be considered suitable for all rifles.
With H4831, a 130gr bullet, and resized army brass, my velocities max out at 59.5 grains of powder. However, in a 26" barrel the same load will continue gaining velocity with Winchester brass all the way up to 62.5 grains of powder. This is one of the hidden gifts of a long barrel. It gives you a larger usable powder capacity.
Bottom line is, you've run out of barrel.
I was checking my notes last night.
In a .338 Win Mag with a 26" tube, I'm getting 3190 with the following load:
200gr BSST
77gr H4350
Win Brass
WMRP
This load is a little on the warm side, and should not be considered suitable for all rifles.
- Thread starter
- #47
- Nov 4, 2004
- 25,358
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A_S
That load is smokin' 8)
JD338
That load is smokin' 8)
JD338
Thanks A_S,
Intresting that I can get a 200gr.BT. to move 3200-3215 fps out of a 24" barrel with 77gr of H4350. I am not sure I understand the corralation to barell length. I understand that a longer barrel would give you more vel. with the same amount of powder. Why does more powder equal less speed?
I know I have seen it before but what is a bsst again?
Ballistic. ?. silver. tip.? Aren't they coated?
6 K
Intresting that I can get a 200gr.BT. to move 3200-3215 fps out of a 24" barrel with 77gr of H4350. I am not sure I understand the corralation to barell length. I understand that a longer barrel would give you more vel. with the same amount of powder. Why does more powder equal less speed?
I know I have seen it before but what is a bsst again?
Ballistic. ?. silver. tip.? Aren't they coated?6 K
Antelope_Sniper
Handloader
- Jan 25, 2008
- 2,618
- 0
With my 26" bbl I continued to get higher velocities all the way up to 78 grains of powder (I broke 3200) but started getting an ejector mark, so I backed it off. The longer barrel gives you more time to benefit from the burning of the extra powder. IMO there is a point where powder volume, burnrate, and barrel length are in perfect harmony. When you exceed that powder charge for that barrel length, you start loosing velocity. If you are not at max pressures, you can back off to where your velocity is no longer declining, or switch to a faster powder. This why with a longer barrel, you can use a slower powder to achive higher velocities with less pressure. I know some of my loads look crazy hot, but it's this balance of burn rate and barrel length that help me achive them.
6 K, You are right about leveling or decreasing velocity with increased charge being a sign of excess pressure. Each powder has a characteristic burn rate exponent and pressure exponent. Powders are designed to have low to flat pressure exponent, that is they will burn at a fairly constant or linear increase over a wide range of pressures. Under or over those design limits and things get weird. Once you exceed a certain threshold in pressure the burn rate beings to increase rapidly with increases in pressure. If you exceed the linear area of the curve the powder no longer acts as that powder would within its design working pressures. Pressed to far and the powder can no longer deliver expected velocity in that gun/cartridge/bullet weight combination.
An analog is pinging in your engine. The rapid burn, actually a detonation is too short to effectively transfer the energy of the burn to the piston. Temperatures and pressures skyrocket and power drops.
Ed
An analog is pinging in your engine. The rapid burn, actually a detonation is too short to effectively transfer the energy of the burn to the piston. Temperatures and pressures skyrocket and power drops.
Ed
Third Trip to the range with the E-tips had more positve results
I tried five seating depths at .o15 increments.
.100 to .030 off the lands.
Four shot groups for each.
.100 was awfull
.085 gave me a workable group of 1.25 inch
.060 really came together with three touching and I pulled the fourth shot to the left.
Even with that the group was 1.5 inch. The first three measured .625 of an inch. Quite satisfactory concidering I didn't trim cases or check for bullet run out.
.045 started to open up again.
.030 was as bad as .100
I was happy that all loads of each batch were consistant with with greatest vel. spread being 12 fps. 3072-3084.
I will work with the .060 load (already made another 20) and use it on my up comming Stone sheep hunt.
11 more days till we leave. :wink:
Thanks again for the help guys I'll keep you posted.
I tried five seating depths at .o15 increments.
.100 to .030 off the lands.
Four shot groups for each.
.100 was awfull
.085 gave me a workable group of 1.25 inch
.060 really came together with three touching and I pulled the fourth shot to the left.
Even with that the group was 1.5 inch. The first three measured .625 of an inch. Quite satisfactory concidering I didn't trim cases or check for bullet run out.
.045 started to open up again.
.030 was as bad as .100
I was happy that all loads of each batch were consistant with with greatest vel. spread being 12 fps. 3072-3084.
I will work with the .060 load (already made another 20) and use it on my up comming Stone sheep hunt.
11 more days till we leave. :wink:
Thanks again for the help guys I'll keep you posted.
Richracer1
Handloader
- May 12, 2005
- 2,139
- 120
Good day at the range, played with the COL for a 338RUM 200ET load. It looks like this is my load:
Fed Brass - 2.74"
GM215M
93gn of 7828SSC
200ET
COL: 6.620
Velocity: unknown at this time (forgot my chrono)
Fed Brass - 2.74"
GM215M
93gn of 7828SSC
200ET
COL: 6.620
Velocity: unknown at this time (forgot my chrono)
- Thread starter
- #54
- Nov 4, 2004
- 25,358
- 8,977
Rich,
Nice shooting but you missed the penny. :lol:
What was your COL and how far off the lands?
JD338
Nice shooting but you missed the penny. :lol:
What was your COL and how far off the lands?
JD338
Richracer1
Handloader
- May 12, 2005
- 2,139
- 120
JD338":1zd0atbq said:
JD, I really don't measure the distance from the lands on my RUMs, as I am limited to a COL 6.670 due to the magazine and can't get any where near the lands, but if I had to guess, I'm well over .100 away.
- Thread starter
- #56
- Nov 4, 2004
- 25,358
- 8,977
Richracer1":ru5odelv said:
Rich,
Same here. I just load my 338 RUM to fit the magazine. I was just curious.
Again, nice shooting!
JD338
Antelope_Sniper
Handloader
- Jan 25, 2008
- 2,618
- 0
Very nice Rich. That should be the ticket for a wide variety of critters. 8)
Very nice Rich. That should be the ticket for a wide variety of critters.
X2 Rich,
I, am still waiting to see what draws I recieve this year :roll: but thus far I am still intending to use it on Sheep, Moose, Mt. Goat, and Deer open seasons this year.
I'll keep you fellas posted.
Don't give up on that penny Rich :wink:
X2 Rich,
I, am still waiting to see what draws I recieve this year
:roll: but thus far I am still intending to use it on Sheep, Moose, Mt. Goat, and Deer open seasons this year.I'll keep you fellas posted.
Don't give up on that penny Rich :wink:
Hi guy and gals,
I am back from my Stone sheep hunt with my second ram.
Unfortuneatly it wasn't much of a test for the 200gr e-tip.
309yds steep down hill so I held like a 200yd shot. I needed to anchor him on that grassy table, so I intended to break his spine at the sholder and exit the brisket. Only thing is I forgot on opening day I slipped and banged my scope(hard enough to remove aluminum) and that night when I put it back on I left it .75" higher than I normally do. This compounded with him leaving the table directly away from me, a steeper angle than I wanted, caused me to hit higher on him than I wanted.
Anyone guess where I hit him yet? :roll:
Yep, just below the right ear, out below the left horn :shock: Skull stayed together and that is all that really matters. Believe it or not, the shot did drop him in his tracks but, he did manage to roll over setting him in motion for a long ways down. I was dissapointed to find he did breake a 2" piece off one horn but I have already started the arangements to get it fixed.
The next opportunity for a field test of the new bullet will be in third week of Sept. I got my Grizzly draw :grin:
Since shots in that spot are usually under 60 yds. I'll be more likley to send an e-tip or three into the more common kill zone.
As usual I 'll keep you posted
6 K
I am back from my Stone sheep hunt with my second ram.
Unfortuneatly it wasn't much of a test for the 200gr e-tip.
309yds steep down hill so I held like a 200yd shot. I needed to anchor him on that grassy table, so I intended to break his spine at the sholder and exit the brisket. Only thing is I forgot on opening day I slipped and banged my scope(hard enough to remove aluminum) and that night when I put it back on I left it .75" higher than I normally do. This compounded with him leaving the table directly away from me, a steeper angle than I wanted, caused me to hit higher on him than I wanted.
Anyone guess where I hit him yet? :roll:
Yep, just below the right ear, out below the left horn :shock: Skull stayed together and that is all that really matters. Believe it or not, the shot did drop him in his tracks but, he did manage to roll over setting him in motion for a long ways down. I was dissapointed to find he did breake a 2" piece off one horn but I have already started the arangements to get it fixed.
The next opportunity for a field test of the new bullet will be in third week of Sept. I got my Grizzly draw :grin:
Since shots in that spot are usually under 60 yds. I'll be more likley to send an e-tip or three into the more common kill zone.
As usual I 'll keep you posted
6 K
