348/358---300 H & H/35 Whelen

[Thankful Otter]

I am at a work related conference in Calif and find I have more time on my hands than usual. I have a ton of respect for Dr Mike and Gil, so did some very minor research, and I can not find a compelling reason to dump my 348 for a 358, but they both prefer the 358 over the 348 so I must be missing something.

Everybody on the forum believes the 35 Whelen is gods gift to the hunting world. But again I can find no reason to dump my 300 H& H and get a 35 Whelen. Keep in mind, all I hunt with the 300 is sheep and goats, and when we are not on a self imposed restriction, Elk. However if I liked bolt action rifles as much as lever's I would have no problem using the 300 for everything, bear, bison, muskox, moose, etc.

In both cases--348 vs 358 and 35 Whelen vs 300 H & H--what am I missing ?

BTW, I do not do my reloading or pay for any of my reloading components, my grandfather does all that, so that part of the equation is not important to me, so to speak. AND, I am serious, not being argumentative, but sincerely curious, talk to me, thank you

 

[Guy Miner]

I don't think you're missing a darned thing! You've got a pair of wonderful rifles in classic cartridges: .348 Win & .300 H&H.

They're older cartridges, but they sure work just fine. Better now perhaps, with the excellent .30 cal bullets avail. I don't know how much of a bullet selection exists for the .348, I'd imagine it's pretty limited.

Both of your rifles & cartridges are just great. Would you be better off with something else? Maybe...

But I think the real answer to taking game is a good hunter & shooter. Not whatever they happen to be carrying.

Regards, Guy

 

[ramiroh146]

I wouldn't drop those rifles. I have a Whalen .I brought one cause I heard the same thing . I was not impressed. I gave it to my nephew. Don't give up either rifle.

Sent from my LG-H343 using Tapatalk

 

[Thankful Otter]

I don't think you're missing a darned thing! You've got a pair of wonderful rifles in classic cartridges: .348 Win & .300 H&H.

They're older cartridges, but they sure work just fine. Better now perhaps, with the excellent .30 cal bullets avail. I don't know how much of a bullet selection exists for the .348, I'd imagine it's pretty limited.

Both of your rifles & cartridges are just great. Would you be better off with something else? Maybe...

But I think the real answer to taking game is a good hunter & shooter. Not whatever they happen to be carrying.

Regards, Guy

Guy, thank you sir and your post brings up another point I should have made in my original post. The 348, shoots a 250 gr woodleigh very well. Again not being argumentative----why do I can if the 358 has a bullet range of 225 to 310, if the 250 does everything I want it to do. Again, I am serious here. The 250 works perfect for me in my neck of the woods, so I am reluctant to uses anything else like the hornady's and others. I notice you fellows load a lot of different loads and bullet weights for the same caliber. When you find what works do you stick with it or keep looking for something that might be better

 

[DrMike]

Cheyenne,

Watch out who you give respect! That darned Gil will disappoint you every time. Now, me, on the other hand... 8)

I wouldn't jettison either of your rifles. The great advantage of the 358 is bullet selection, which doesn't mean a thing if you have a good bullet and it works well for you. I like the 35s primarily because I have them. They really won't do anything your 348 won't do. Since your grandfather loads for you, you're in good shape. I wouldn't divest myself of a 300 H&H if I had one. It is a classic cartridge that will still do everything you could ask of it. You might gain a few foot per second with another magnum or a bit of frontal area with another cartridge. The animals will be no more impressed. I'll likely keep on pushing .358 caliber cartridges because I'm familiar with them and they are generally available. They are no better and no worse than other good cartridges.

And you're right! You have too much time on your hands down in Kalifornia. Now, get back into that conference. :mrgreen:

 

[SJB358]

I think any advantage that went to the 358 would be the ability to use optics on the rifle. Other than that, there isn't one.

The 300 is good for you and seeing as you have the 348 it covers the longer shooting aspect of stuff with sheep and goats. They all work well. For the person that never intends to shoot over 400 yards they will all crush animals.

What Bullet are you using in your 300 right now?

 

[Thankful Otter]

Scotty, 200 Oryz and you make a good point about optics, but I prefer iron's.

Dr Mike, your right on all points LOL thank you

let me also say that when I am home I have zero time, dogs, hunting for substance for us and others and work, so maybe if I had more time I would be inclined to play with different loads and rifles. Plus to be honest I prefer to be in the mountains and spend as much time outside as possible.

I must say this and I am not trying to be rude to our neighbors to the south, but how in the world do you put up with some of the mannerisms, clothing or lack of it, anger, that I have encountered here in San Francisco. It is a beautiful city but it would take some getting use to the populace here and when I leave the hotel all I see is people not a moose or bear to be seen--what is that all about ? BTW, in all fairness Quebec is the same way

 

[DrMike]

let me also say that when I am home I have zero time, dogs, hunting for substance for us and others and work, so maybe if I had more time I would be inclined to play with different loads and rifles. Plus to be honest I prefer to be in the mountains and spend as much time outside as possible.

I must say this and I am not trying to be rude to our neighbors to the south, but how in the world do you put up with some of the mannerisms, clothing or lack of it, anger, that I have encountered here in San Francisco. It is a beautiful city but it would take some getting use to the populace here and when I leave the hotel all I see is people not a moose or bear to be seen--what is that all about ? BTW, in all fairness Quebec is the same way

Well, Cheyenne, living in the north does demand more attention to what others call sport. And you are correct on Quebec. :shock: I lived in SF for a couple of years. There are (were) good people there, but it is a city and thus, there is a higher concentration of individuals who have forgotten they are not the centre of the universe.

 

[JD338]

Cheyenne,

I think you 348 Win and 300 H&H will cover everything you hunt nicely.
As Scotty pointed out, wanting optics on a short range rifle might require a new rifle and the 35 Whelen
could be a contender. Since you like lever actions, a Marlin 1895 45-70 with a low power scope could fit the bill perfectly.
I love my M700 Classic 35 Whelen and have had a lot of success with it but sadly it sits in the safe, semi retired.
I need to fix that.....

JD338

 

[Anonymous]

I'd think I'd prefer the .358 over the .348 for the sole reason that I'm not really a lever guy. Well, that and I don't have a .348. Starting from scratch, it would be easier to build/buy/etc a .358 than a M71 with a good supply of ammo. If the .358 has an advantage, it's in logistics and not ballistics.

That said- there is nothing at all wrong with the .348. Bullet selection is limited- but in all reality...if you have a bullet you like, you're all set. Brass can be tough to find, but once you've got it...solved. I don't really do that much experimentation once I find a load that does what i want, I lay in a supply. By the sounds of it, I think your logistics end of it are handled.

As others have pointed out- the M71 is virtually impossible to scope. If it's not a handicap to you, then it's working.

I think the Whelen is an interesting cartridge and I'm contemplating building one....but I've been hunting with the .300 for a lot of years. All of the .300s- H&H, WM, WSM, WBY- are great cartridges and very versatile with both power and range .

I don't actually think of the .35 Whelen as a substitute for the .300....I think of it as more like the .348. I can't find a thing wrong with either of the cartridges and rifles you mention for just about any hunting on the continent.

 

[Europe]

a 300 H & H with a 200 gr Norma Oryx and a 348 Win with a 250 gr Woodleigh, hunted at ranges of 250 yards or less will certainly take care of anything and everything that you decide to hunt in North America

Observations cheyenne

1. your young and have 20/20 vision and dont need a scope
2. your grandfather has laid in a supply of everything you need to use the 348
3. reloading, cost and availability is not something you concern yourself with
4. you live and work in a manner that many of us can only dream about. I will guarantee you that many of the fellows here would "live" in the mountains if they could and their time would be spent hunting instead of dreaming and working on a new project for the next hunt ( I was in exactly that position at one time )
5. you like lever action rifles, from memory you have a 250, 7mmwsm, 30/30, 348, 45/70 . They are to you what pre 64 model 70 is to Scotty, good knees to Dr Mike, a house on the beach in Hawaii to Hodgeman, --you get the idea.

IF you ever need to scope a lever then go with the 358 and if you ever decide to shoot over 250 yards then get a 35 Whelen --OR--- just reduce your bullet weight a bit in the 300 H & H. The old girl once won a long distance shooting match (-;

OR, if you really want something that in my humble opinion is comparable to the 35 Whelen, only better, then get a 340 Weatherby ( actually from memory your husband has one, so if I correct, use it) but the recoil might get your attention.

Scotty, 35 Whelen, otherWhelen users---why not a 340 Weatherby instead if the 35 Whelen ?

 

[IdahoCTD]

God I feel for you having to endure SF. When I was a kid we lived in the central valley of CA and we had season tickets to the 49er's. So we spent a good deal of time in that crap hole. I think that many people having to live that close to each other just makes people weird.

To your rifle question.....bigger bullets kill better. That's proven so I do think the 35 Whelen will kill better than your 300 H&H but I don't think it has better long range ballistics (something I don't think you care so much about) nor do I think it is need for the game your hunting. I'm not a lever person at all so I'm not going to comment on the .348 vs .358 short of to say that I would bet, like others have said, the .358 components are much easier to come by.

 

[sask boy]

Cheyenne when I decided to have a rifle built I had whittled it down to 2 what I considered big gun calibres the 300 H&H or the 35 Whelen. I shot the 375 H&H exclusively for about 10 years and then for some unknown reason I sold it .
So after chatting with the guys on this forum and having already shot a H&H I decided to go with something different so I had the 35 Whelen built. I really love this calibre but would not for one minute ever shy away from the 300 H&H as I love the old cool calibres.

Blessings,
Dan

 

[PJGunner]

"Scotty, 35 Whelen, otherWhelen users---why not a 340 Weatherby instead if the 35 Whelen ?"

Good question. Let's see. Five in the magazine and one up the spout in my .35 Whelen Mauser. Four in the magazine and one up the spout in my Remington M700 Classic. Three in the magazine and one up the spout for the .340 Wby. I don't remember what my Ruger M77 holds as I haven't touched it in years. I have suspicions about it's chamber. I do like the idea of the "extra" rounds in case of an encounter with an animal that has teeth that bite and claws that scratch. Besides, I think the .340 Wby. make have a bit more recoil than I want to put up with. My .35 Whelen load is just fine for elk to 350 yards and I'm not comfortable shooting much farther that that with anything.
Paul B.

 

[PJGunner]

"I must say this and I am not trying to be rude to our neighbors to the south, but how in the world do you put up with some of the mannerisms, clothing or lack of it, anger, that I have encountered here in San Francisco. It is a beautiful city but it would take some getting use to the populace here and when I leave the hotel all I see is people not a moose or bear to be seen--what is that all about ? BTW, in all fairness Quebec is the same way."

YH, I wish I could give you a cognizant answer to your question. San Francisco is my home town, born and raised. I left at age 22 to do my time in the military and when I came back, (1964) it wasn't the city I knew. I left forever in 1968 for several very good reasons, returning only for very short visits for family birthdays and holidays when I didn't have to work. Family is all gone now and I have not been back in close to twenty years. I doubt there will ever be any reason whatsoever for me to ever go back. That's what happens when the liberals take over.
You enjoy the freedom to have where you now live.
Paul B.

 

[Thankful Otter]

Scotty, 200 gr Norma Oryx

Jim, I do have a 45/70 sir and you are correct, however I just dont use it since acquiring the 348

Dan Thank you

Guy, your point is so-so true. To each their own and if it works for them that is all that matters, thank you

Hodgeman, you are correct sir, however in my head I was comparing "my" 300 H & H to "their" 35 Whelen, only from a distance point if view. But you are correct and thank you for your input sir, it is appreciated.

Paul, good point about the addition rounds and the recoil ( 340 vs 35 whelen)

Dr Mike, Idahoctd, Paul. Today we were forced to watch while having lunch a group of women marching because they want the manhole covers to say people covers, a group of boys who are now girls or girls who or now boys or whatever are upset that the bathrooms are not accessible to both genders or something like that, yesterday we saw a women on the street topless because, if the boys can go topless it is discriminatory against women if they can not, ( for the record, nobody wanted to see her naked whether she was a boy or girl ) we also notice a lot of people feel that they should be "provided for" by those who do work for a living. My first thought on that subject I can not print here. -----------I miss my dogs LOL

 

[truck driver]

Cheyenne I have no answers for you except to say that what you have works for you and I wouldn't look to change anything.
I do like to mess around with reloading and trying different things but in the end I always seem to use what has best worked in the past.
If I lived where you do and had the same life style I would more than likely own just 2 calibers and both would be in bolt actions with scopes. The calibers would be the 35Whelen/AI and the 7mm Remington. For scopes I would have a 1.5-5 on the 35Whelen/AI and a 2-10 on the 7mm Remington because they work for me.
Every body has something they like and it works for them.

The second part about the animals who live in big cities is I stay away from them since I have been told that I don't play well with others at least not with these types. :grin:

And I'm sure your dogs are more civilized than what your seeing in Kalifornia.

 

[Blkram]

Cheyenne,

You are not missing a thing, with either your 348 or 300 H&H, otherwise you and your family would have succumbed to starvation years about! LOL

In your shoes, I would be very happy with both, as you are and have been, all along. You like your particular rifles each for its own particular merits that mean something to you. That is all the reason that you need to continue to use what you have.

This is the nice thing that some people forget during their campfire conversations; we do not NEED to justify our choices (whether it be a want or a need) to others. It is just that, our choice! Just as we appreciate that they may have made the same choice, or a different choice; because it was what they wanted or felt they needed!

For each of us it is purely a choice of our individual priorities as to rifle and cartridge, and it's use and particular service it is pressed into.

For instance, the 358;
- I like that it is a lever action with a detachable magazine, so it can be fired rapidly, and reloaded quickly with just a change of magazines, of which I carry a spare on my belt, along with 10 spare cartridges in a belt carrier.
- as I often carried the rifle with me for work, the ability to load the rifle quickly and safely via the detachable magazine, when getting in and out of a vehicle, or off and on a machine (atv or ski-doo) was desirable compared to a tubular magazine
- as much as I like shooting and hunting with open sites, I like the fact that I can mount a scope on the BLR where I could not on the Model 71. My Vari-X III in 1.5-5x25 is mounted in QD rings, so that I can remove and use the open sights if the scope fails or conditions warrant.
- and as was pointed out above, by Europe, and witnessed first hand in hunting and shooting with DrMike and others over the years, the older one gets, the harder it becomes for some, to continue to use open sights, and I am not as young as I once was, and may not be able to continue to use open sights as effectively as I once did, and that day may not be that far in the future for me.
- but please do not take my not currently owning a Model 71 as an indication of my lack of appreciation or value of it; as I still think that it is one of the finest rifles out there, and still desire to get another, someday
- ballistically, there isn't a big enough difference between the two cartridges, that any animal you have harvested, or will harvest, to be able to tell the difference that they were shot with the 348 vs the 358.

I may do quite a bit of experimentation in hand loading (but definitely not as much as the good Dr), but it is in order to find the best load for each particular rifle. Once that load has been determined, I try to keep at least 100 rounds of ammo loaded for each rifle at all times, unless a certain component becomes hard to find or discontinued. And I only hunt with that particular load for that particular firearm. In this instance, my 358 Win load is the Speer Hot Cor 220 gr FN over 50.0 grains of Win 748 in Winchester cases with a WLR primer. It produces 1" groups at 100 yards, and has successfully taken black bear, elk and moose over the past 14 years. At a chronographed velocity of just 2209 fps in my rifle, it may not be a very fast load, but that 2365 ft/lbs of muzzle energy has definitely done the job that was asked of it. You are lucky that your grandfather can and wants to do this for you, as you are busy with other priorities. And yes, I too wish that I could again spend more time in the field as you do! As mentioned previously there are many of us here that are happy that you are able to and do, and there are more than just a few that might admit that they are a wee bit envious!

I too, do not care for the so called "civilized" zoo that you are experiencing in SF, as I have to travel to Vancouver, Edmonton and Calgary for work quite often, and always appreciate getting back to the "wilds" of northeastern BC where life is more sane!

Enjoy your life, as you are truly blessed!

 

[SJB358]

April, for me the 340 is a very serious cartridge but I don't like muzzle brakes nor 10lb rifles so my 338 does the trick for me. No doubt in my mind that if a fella or lady didn't care about either of those two aspects a 340 would answer the mail for everything, everywhere.

 

[lefty315]

I think what Hodgeman said, " logistics and not ballistics" pretty much sums it up. If you're like most of us here and you have a weakness for guns then I say get a .35 Whelen and keep the others. If your guns are tools, in a couple of very nostalgic calibers, then they are more than adequate for anything that you will most likely ever hunt on this side of the planet.