1100 Remington Man
Handloader
- May 1, 2007
- 1,153
- 302
I don't see anything in North America I would not hunt with My 300 H&H. You are blessed where you live yukon huntress and for what its worth I have no desire for a .35 Whelen.
348/358---300 H & H/35 Whelen
- Thread starter Thankful Otter
- Start date
- Nov 4, 2004
- 24,523
- 6,974
April,
Part of the reason why my 35 Whelen sits in the safe is because I have a 338 RUM.
The bone crushing horse power is impressive on game. :mrgreen:
JD338
Part of the reason why my 35 Whelen sits in the safe is because I have a 338 RUM.
The bone crushing horse power is impressive on game. :mrgreen:
JD338
ramiroh146
Beginner
- Dec 23, 2016
- 22
- 0
Sorry to tell you gunner. You should only need one shot. One shot.
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SJB358":2h9pdbbf said:
Thanks Scotty for being tactful as I now will follow your lead and merely say EVERY cape buffalo hunt you will be on will require two bullets, first something like a Swift A Frame and then a Woodleigh FMJ--you expect to use them both and hope you only need two shots.
I have used more than one shot on many animals, lion, bear, moose, elk and a couple of times even three shots were taken, whether it was because I missed a shot, the animal didn't go down even after hit and sometimes out of plain and simple fear--shoot him again, shoot him again. One of the points made on this thread by Gil was an very important point about extra magazines for lever action rifles and for that reason alone if I was in the market for a 348 or 358, I would get a 358
I too wish that I could say that every animal that I have ever harvested only required one shot.
Elk rarely die quickly from one shot (particularly those fully adrenaline do in the rut that you have worked up enough to come in at 10 yards or less). Bison are very large animals that are hard to impress with ft-lbs of energy, when you do not get the bullets into the vitals as well as you thought (their thoracic cavity is not what you would expect if you have never seen one butchered!). Then you get animals in every species that are just plain tougher than the others, and their tenacity of life can be astounding. My first caribou took five 375 Win 220 gr bullets in the vheart and lungs before expiring. At approx. 100 yards, those bullets were each packing over 2300 ft-lbs of energy! I've shot some tough elk, but this caribou still stands out in my memory.
There is always a chance of a misfire. I was backing up a friend on a black bear hunt and when we finally caught up to it, my first she'll did not fire. Luckily, the bear went away instead of charging us. I was also backing up DrMike on his grizzly, when one of the rounds in his magazine also failed to fire. Luckily, this was one of the last rounds in his magazine as he was following up with a finishing shot on the dying bear.
I always carry extra ammo on my person, even if I am carrying a full second magazine for a particular rifle. A lesson learned on my first bison referenced above. Never assume one, to or even five will be enough.
Better to have and not need vs need and not have!
This is even more important on those critters that can bite back or gore/trample you.
Elk rarely die quickly from one shot (particularly those fully adrenaline do in the rut that you have worked up enough to come in at 10 yards or less). Bison are very large animals that are hard to impress with ft-lbs of energy, when you do not get the bullets into the vitals as well as you thought (their thoracic cavity is not what you would expect if you have never seen one butchered!). Then you get animals in every species that are just plain tougher than the others, and their tenacity of life can be astounding. My first caribou took five 375 Win 220 gr bullets in the vheart and lungs before expiring. At approx. 100 yards, those bullets were each packing over 2300 ft-lbs of energy! I've shot some tough elk, but this caribou still stands out in my memory.
There is always a chance of a misfire. I was backing up a friend on a black bear hunt and when we finally caught up to it, my first she'll did not fire. Luckily, the bear went away instead of charging us. I was also backing up DrMike on his grizzly, when one of the rounds in his magazine also failed to fire. Luckily, this was one of the last rounds in his magazine as he was following up with a finishing shot on the dying bear.
I always carry extra ammo on my person, even if I am carrying a full second magazine for a particular rifle. A lesson learned on my first bison referenced above. Never assume one, to or even five will be enough.
Better to have and not need vs need and not have!
This is even more important on those critters that can bite back or gore/trample you.
35 Whelen
Handloader
- Dec 22, 2011
- 2,196
- 346
Cheyenne,
Happy Holidays! And I find myself once again with the good Dr on this one, you have waaaaay to much time on your hands !!! :lol:
But to address your post, on the first comparison of your beloved .348 vs a .358, for what ever its worth there is certainly so little difference in the calibers, it would be silly to consider one over the other in there ability scores to kill
Game for what your doing........ However the bullet selection is another story......... As you know I am a big fan
Of light handy guns......... A full pound, is a big deal to me if I have to lug it all day in the mountains, so my thoughts are if I were condemplating a 348/358 and didn't already have one I might lean towards the .358W, simply because
It is available in some nice handy configurations, I had a Savage Featherweight model 99 for 25 years in .358 with a reciever sight at the rear, that was our go to gun, on Snowy days tracking big Whitetails, it was short, light, handy, most of the shots the bucks are running straight away the .358 worked perfect....... The .348 would have done the exact same thing but just added a pound more
To carry all day........
Now since you already mentioned you only use your old 300 ouch n ouch for sheep and goats again I cant think of any good reason to switch from that caliber either. As you know because my pardner for many years at Alaska Safaris, used one 99% of the time, i have seen them in action on alot of game. I personally love a model 70 in 300 H&H (or 375) simply because how they feed those big
Slight shouldered cartridges like butternut.......
However and I reluctantly have to add, that in todays world and the extremely limited availability of commercial
Ammo when i look at the numbers Federal Premium list the 300 Holland in 180 gr at 2870, a great combo for sure.
Hornady list their Superformance loading for the 30/06 at 2840 so for all practical purposes they are now identical in performance , so in this case it could now get crazy in the guns themselves as a pre64 M70 scoped could easily
Wind up on the north side of 8 3/4 lbs......... A new Tikka lite in 30/06 with a lightweight scope could come in on the southside of 6.1/2 lbs............. I think you know where this is headed.
Honestly for me the comparison of 300H vs 35 W is not a
Good one, they are two different animals. And the 35 fits much better into the 348/358 pile...
I would compare the 35W heads up to the .338WM , and even with its big belted case it can barely outdo the old Whelen, but adding again a pound or more weight to lug and significantly more recoil......
And your right the Whelen is gods gift to the hunting fraternity..........
Ps. Anyone that can handle the recoil of a 340 Weatherby
Without a darn good brake on it ...........is alot tougher than
I am at this stage of the journey!
Happy Holidays! And I find myself once again with the good Dr on this one, you have waaaaay to much time on your hands !!! :lol:
But to address your post, on the first comparison of your beloved .348 vs a .358, for what ever its worth there is certainly so little difference in the calibers, it would be silly to consider one over the other in there ability scores to kill
Game for what your doing........ However the bullet selection is another story......... As you know I am a big fan
Of light handy guns......... A full pound, is a big deal to me if I have to lug it all day in the mountains, so my thoughts are if I were condemplating a 348/358 and didn't already have one I might lean towards the .358W, simply because
It is available in some nice handy configurations, I had a Savage Featherweight model 99 for 25 years in .358 with a reciever sight at the rear, that was our go to gun, on Snowy days tracking big Whitetails, it was short, light, handy, most of the shots the bucks are running straight away the .358 worked perfect....... The .348 would have done the exact same thing but just added a pound more
To carry all day........
Now since you already mentioned you only use your old 300 ouch n ouch for sheep and goats again I cant think of any good reason to switch from that caliber either. As you know because my pardner for many years at Alaska Safaris, used one 99% of the time, i have seen them in action on alot of game. I personally love a model 70 in 300 H&H (or 375) simply because how they feed those big
Slight shouldered cartridges like butternut.......
However and I reluctantly have to add, that in todays world and the extremely limited availability of commercial
Ammo when i look at the numbers Federal Premium list the 300 Holland in 180 gr at 2870, a great combo for sure.
Hornady list their Superformance loading for the 30/06 at 2840 so for all practical purposes they are now identical in performance , so in this case it could now get crazy in the guns themselves as a pre64 M70 scoped could easily
Wind up on the north side of 8 3/4 lbs......... A new Tikka lite in 30/06 with a lightweight scope could come in on the southside of 6.1/2 lbs............. I think you know where this is headed.
Honestly for me the comparison of 300H vs 35 W is not a
Good one, they are two different animals. And the 35 fits much better into the 348/358 pile...
I would compare the 35W heads up to the .338WM , and even with its big belted case it can barely outdo the old Whelen, but adding again a pound or more weight to lug and significantly more recoil......
And your right the Whelen is gods gift to the hunting fraternity..........
Ps. Anyone that can handle the recoil of a 340 Weatherby
Without a darn good brake on it ...........is alot tougher than
I am at this stage of the journey!
truck driver
Ammo Smith
- Mar 11, 2013
- 7,234
- 764
Cheyenne after reading over all that has been posted and including my own post I can see where you have chosen two cartridges and the M71 that have a lot of history behind them. Each known for dependability and getting the job done and doing it well. I also see where there is some romanticism ( if that is the proper word ) for each which there is nothing wrong with that either.
I went thru a stage in my life where I really got big into black powder rifles to the point where I even went to Williamsburg VA to watch and learn from the Smithsonian Institutes gun smiths who built rifles on site by hand with tools and techniques from that time and era to build my own black powder rifle from scratch buying what parts I needed in the rough and finishing them to duplicate what I saw and read in books. At that time I believed I was born 100yrs later than I should have been since the 1840's life style was an era I could have fit into very easily.
Now I have found a new love in my old age the 35 Whelen, it's parent the 30-06 will always have a place in my heart and gun safe since I can not imagine not having one. Romantic you bet, if only to be 20yrs younger I would migrate to the BC or Yukon to live my life out in peace and quiet away from the mass of people and fast pace of life.
Enjoy the M71 348 and the 300H&H they will serve you well.
I went thru a stage in my life where I really got big into black powder rifles to the point where I even went to Williamsburg VA to watch and learn from the Smithsonian Institutes gun smiths who built rifles on site by hand with tools and techniques from that time and era to build my own black powder rifle from scratch buying what parts I needed in the rough and finishing them to duplicate what I saw and read in books. At that time I believed I was born 100yrs later than I should have been since the 1840's life style was an era I could have fit into very easily.
Now I have found a new love in my old age the 35 Whelen, it's parent the 30-06 will always have a place in my heart and gun safe since I can not imagine not having one. Romantic you bet, if only to be 20yrs younger I would migrate to the BC or Yukon to live my life out in peace and quiet away from the mass of people and fast pace of life.
Enjoy the M71 348 and the 300H&H they will serve you well.
- Thread starter
- #29
Thankful Otter
Handloader
- Oct 8, 2012
- 783
- 95
I will soon be leaving this fine country and headed back to the wilds of Canada, it has been interesting, to say the least.
I want to thank everyone for their contribution to my thread, even the post from the fellow that is so good he only needs one bullet, brought good information from April and Gil.
For the record, the 300H and H was not being compared, by me, as an apples to apples type of comparison. Ballistically, and for the purpose the 300 H & H is used for, I was curious whether or not even this apples to oranges comparison gave the 35 wheeler hunter a clear advantage on a sheep hunt, or at least one that I did not see. From a practical point of view, I was aware the 300 H & H for the purpose intended was adequate, as it has done so several times, but was curious if their were even more to the story and thanks to you fellows I received some good information and even some agreement, with the question I was asking.
To April's question. My husband does have a 340 Weatherby and it is a very fine rifle and definitely a killing machine, but more than I can or want to handle.
To the 348/358 question, again thank you for your kind responses. Now let me ask all of you a question. Have you ever seen a very attractive woman with a man who might be a tad overweight ( 358 can weight less ), maybe a little older ( new 358's on the market ), looks a little less than athletic ( 358 with a magazine ), his build does not let him dress as sharply ( 348, no scope ) and you say to yourself, "what is she doing with him ? ". ------- She loves him and I love the 348. But, everyone has certainly made excellent points and god forbid if something happens to him and he must be replaced, then a 358 will probably end up in my arms.
I might get one anyway, just to start getting used to him and it would certainly be a nice addition to my lever collection.
One last question for my friend from the North, Hodgeman and Idahoctd, what do you dislike about the lever ?
I want to thank everyone for their contribution to my thread, even the post from the fellow that is so good he only needs one bullet, brought good information from April and Gil.
For the record, the 300H and H was not being compared, by me, as an apples to apples type of comparison. Ballistically, and for the purpose the 300 H & H is used for, I was curious whether or not even this apples to oranges comparison gave the 35 wheeler hunter a clear advantage on a sheep hunt, or at least one that I did not see. From a practical point of view, I was aware the 300 H & H for the purpose intended was adequate, as it has done so several times, but was curious if their were even more to the story and thanks to you fellows I received some good information and even some agreement, with the question I was asking.
To April's question. My husband does have a 340 Weatherby and it is a very fine rifle and definitely a killing machine, but more than I can or want to handle.
To the 348/358 question, again thank you for your kind responses. Now let me ask all of you a question. Have you ever seen a very attractive woman with a man who might be a tad overweight ( 358 can weight less ), maybe a little older ( new 358's on the market ), looks a little less than athletic ( 358 with a magazine ), his build does not let him dress as sharply ( 348, no scope ) and you say to yourself, "what is she doing with him ? ". ------- She loves him and I love the 348. But, everyone has certainly made excellent points and god forbid if something happens to him and he must be replaced, then a 358 will probably end up in my arms.
I might get one anyway, just to start getting used to him and it would certainly be a nice addition to my lever collection.
One last question for my friend from the North, Hodgeman and Idahoctd, what do you dislike about the lever ?
35 Whelen
Handloader
- Dec 22, 2011
- 2,196
- 346
I love that analogy of the " beautiful girl" lol
Well said! Never thought of it that way.
And for the record if I am headed out sheep hunting it wont be with my 35 Whelen. I am going to ask to borrow your 300 H&H and I will bring a box of 150gr BTs!!
If your ever able to handle a pre 1960 Savage 99 Featherweight in .358 (about 6lbs flat) I bet you would like it. Perfect balance, short overall, lighting fast. :grin:
Would look right at home beside the olde 71 too
Well said! Never thought of it that way.
And for the record if I am headed out sheep hunting it wont be with my 35 Whelen. I am going to ask to borrow your 300 H&H and I will bring a box of 150gr BTs!!
If your ever able to handle a pre 1960 Savage 99 Featherweight in .358 (about 6lbs flat) I bet you would like it. Perfect balance, short overall, lighting fast. :grin:
Would look right at home beside the olde 71 too
- Thread starter
- #32
Thankful Otter
Handloader
- Oct 8, 2012
- 783
- 95
Thanks Dewey
Earle, you will love this. Gil has already turned me onto the old Savage 358 and I immediately sent an email to my grandfather ( who is off the mountain for the winter ) and told him I wanted one. He emailed backed and said "people in hell want ice water ", but I know he is already searching for one for me ( how do you spell spoiled ). Anyway, whether I end up liking it as well as the 348 or not is not important, as I think it would be a great addition to my collection of levers. I do want to thank you for the suggestion as it simply adds fuel to the fire, Gil ignited
Earle, you will love this. Gil has already turned me onto the old Savage 358 and I immediately sent an email to my grandfather ( who is off the mountain for the winter ) and told him I wanted one. He emailed backed and said "people in hell want ice water ", but I know he is already searching for one for me ( how do you spell spoiled ). Anyway, whether I end up liking it as well as the 348 or not is not important, as I think it would be a great addition to my collection of levers. I do want to thank you for the suggestion as it simply adds fuel to the fire, Gil ignited
ramiroh146
Beginner
- Dec 23, 2016
- 22
- 0
If I don't hit with the first shot you see it again. Mine are percise shots won't take a maybe shot.
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It's kinda funny Cheyenne were comparing two ALMOST dead cartridges. One is a little older than the other but they are both fairly rare in most places. I've got them both and like them both just fine. My 358 does have a scope on it and the 348 has a receiver sight on it. I'm probably using the same load as you with the 250 Woodleighs at around 2300 and the 358 runs a 225 PT at 2450. Not a dang Nickles worth of difference. The 358 has taken a bunch of deer for me. The 348 hasn't yet got blooded but I do like carrying it. I could have used it this year in Oregon since I shot the danged elk at 75 yards.... oh well, maybe next year.
ramiroh146
Beginner
- Dec 23, 2016
- 22
- 0
Look people if you call yourself a hunter you must try to make it a one shot kill. Most people that take more than one shot are the one pay for a hunt and think they must kill something. And take maybe shots wound the animal and it runs then you must track it and hope you find it. That's not a hunter .
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ramiroh146
Beginner
- Dec 23, 2016
- 22
- 0
Should not matter what you hunt if you are not set up to kill the animal your after don't do it. Or get set up for it.
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ramiroh146":2syv61nl said:
I think you are really stretching that. That's painting with a broad brush.
Everyone strives to take their animal with one well placed shot. It doesn't happen in the real world all the time.
Please show us your set up. I'd love to learn how you do it every single time. Show some pictures of your animals. We have a great way to post your animals taken, separated by year.
In my experience and a couple of years spending time around shooters and hunters I've seen a few botched shots but that comes from varying conditions and just hunting living things over the past 30 years.
But please tell and show us. Those usually have the largest effect with making your point.
ramiroh146
Beginner
- Dec 23, 2016
- 22
- 0
That it I hunted last year I did not have a good shot so I didn't take one.I decide what shot I take. And to show you pics. To prove I do as I preach. No I won't. I've been hunting for a long time my grandfather and father taught me how to hunt and do it very well.they also said don't be cruel if you think you can't kill the animal on your first shot don't take it
So there have been seasons with no kill but that is ok cause is am a hunter.
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So there have been seasons with no kill but that is ok cause is am a hunter.
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SJB358":32b35rca said:
Cheyenne, Scotty is not talking about Dr Mike and I in his first two sentences (-;
Scotty, excellent post and point's. If you like levers, the old savage and winchester are a couple of classics for sure. we never owned the savage in a 358, but the 250/3000 was a sweet little rifle. I hope that yourt 348 gets blood on it real soon.
Scotty a little off topic, but from memory didn't your wife get a rifle gifted to her, was wondering what she has hunted with it. Also did your son go with you again this year when you went west and did he get anything ? Happy New Year Scotty and everyone
