348/358---300 H & H/35 Whelen

[hseII]

Gerry,

I have found talking to several guys over the past 10 years that I am getting the exact same performance out of my 338-06 as they are getting with their AI versions.

While the AI version has its "cool" factor, I do intend to take this rifle to Africa when I go and wanted to be able to have the factory loaded ammo for it. Which it shoots the Wby 210 Partition ammo at a chronographed 2750 fps producing 1/2" groups. (Duplicates Wby specifications for this ammo)

In my handloads I am using Wby brass and 62 grains of H414, WLR primer, with the 215 gr SGK and getting 1/2" groups at a chronographed 2751 fps out of a 22" barrel.

At 300 yards, due to the higher BC of the 215 SGK over the 210 Partition out of the 338 Win Mag, the retained energy is greater than that of the Magnum. Sierra puts a thicker jacket on the 338 SGK for better penetration and controlled expansion at Magnum velocities.

I like that the rifle holds 5 cartridges and produces less felt recoil than the Magnum. And as much as I like my 358 Win, and respect the 35 Whelen, due to my experience on large game (elk, moose, bison and grizzly bear) with the 338 WM, I do not feel undergunned with the 338-06.

I found this to be all very interesting, and while I still want to replace the Magnum, I do not need to.

Is there any benefit to using a magnum action over a Long action for the 338-06?

I was under the impression the 338-06 ammo could be fired from a 338-06 AI chambered rifle if in a pinch?

Am I mistaken?

 

[Blkram]

You may want a longer action if you were needing to seat long heavyweight bullets out further (ie 300 grainers), but some long action actions have longer magazine boxes that allow seating bullets out further than others with ordinary 185-250 gr bullets.

Yes, you can fire ordinary ammo in an AI chamber. You may lose some performance with factory ammo in the improved chamber vs the regular chamber, but it will be minimal. And your scope may not be sighted in for the "reduced" load. But a quick adjustment in field can be done to correct this, if required.

 

[hseII]

You may want a longer action if you were needing to seat long heavyweight bullets out further (ie 300 grainers), but some long action actions have longer magazine boxes that allow seating bullets out further than others with ordinary 185-250 gr bullets.

Yes, you can fire ordinary ammo in an AI chamber. You may lose some performance with factory ammo in the improved chamber vs the regular chamber, but it will be minimal. And your scope may not be sighted in for the "reduced" load. But a quick adjustment in field can be done to correct this, if required.

So a Wyatt's blind magazine pared with a regular Long action should be enough length for just about any 250 grain combo?

2700 fps 250gr Accubonds from a 338-06 sounds pure sexy.

 

[SJB358]

You may want a longer action if you were needing to seat long heavyweight bullets out further (ie 300 grainers), but some long action actions have longer magazine boxes that allow seating bullets out further than others with ordinary 185-250 gr bullets.

Yes, you can fire ordinary ammo in an AI chamber. You may lose some performance with factory ammo in the improved chamber vs the regular chamber, but it will be minimal. And your scope may not be sighted in for the "reduced" load. But a quick adjustment in field can be done to correct this, if required.

So a Wyatt's blind magazine pared with a regular Long action should be enough length for just about any 250 grain combo?

2700 fps 250gr Accubonds from a 338-06 sounds pure sexy.

Not saying you can't do that, but you've have to roll the coal to get a 250 AB up to 2700, but you should be able to get 2500 to MAYBE 2600 With a 24" barrel. I've ran a lot of 250's through my 338 Win Mag and my 24" barreled Whelen and getting 2600 from a 250 is about the top end.

Again, not saying it isn't possible but probably a touch outside of the cartridges realm.

Gil, have you taken much game with that 215 Sierra? Seen a few tests where it didn't expand a whole lot under 2400 or so. Just wondering what you've seen with them.

 

[hseII]

It's sounding like the 225 Accubonds & a 26" tube is what's needed for reliable 2700fps.

 

[truck driver]

You may want a longer action if you were needing to seat long heavyweight bullets out further (ie 300 grainers), but some long action actions have longer magazine boxes that allow seating bullets out further than others with ordinary 185-250 gr bullets.

Yes, you can fire ordinary ammo in an AI chamber. You may lose some performance with factory ammo in the improved chamber vs the regular chamber, but it will be minimal. And your scope may not be sighted in for the "reduced" load. But a quick adjustment in field can be done to correct this, if required.

So a Wyatt's blind magazine pared with a regular Long action should be enough length for just about any 250 grain combo?

2700 fps 250gr Accubonds from a 338-06 sounds pure sexy.

What length barrel are you planning to use to get 2700fps with a 250gr bullet out of a 338-06?

 

[hseII]

You may want a longer action if you were needing to seat long heavyweight bullets out further (ie 300 grainers), but some long action actions have longer magazine boxes that allow seating bullets out further than others with ordinary 185-250 gr bullets.

Yes, you can fire ordinary ammo in an AI chamber. You may lose some performance with factory ammo in the improved chamber vs the regular chamber, but it will be minimal. And your scope may not be sighted in for the "reduced" load. But a quick adjustment in field can be done to correct this, if required.

So a Wyatt's blind magazine pared with a regular Long action should be enough length for just about any 250 grain combo?

2700 fps 250gr Accubonds from a 338-06 sounds pure sexy.

What length barrel are you planning to use to get 2700fps with a 250gr bullet out of a 338-06?

I'm still in the planning stages: I was thinking 24" or 26".
If I have to drop to the 225 Accubonds, so be it.

 

[truck driver]

You may want a longer action if you were needing to seat long heavyweight bullets out further (ie 300 grainers), but some long action actions have longer magazine boxes that allow seating bullets out further than others with ordinary 185-250 gr bullets.

Yes, you can fire ordinary ammo in an AI chamber. You may lose some performance with factory ammo in the improved chamber vs the regular chamber, but it will be minimal. And your scope may not be sighted in for the "reduced" load. But a quick adjustment in field can be done to correct this, if required.

So a Wyatt's blind magazine pared with a regular Long action should be enough length for just about any 250 grain combo?

2700 fps 250gr Accubonds from a 338-06 sounds pure sexy.

What length barrel are you planning to use to get 2700fps with a 250gr bullet out of a 338-06?

I'm still in the planning stages: I was thinking 24" or 26".
If I have to drop to the 225 Accubonds, so be it.

You might get 2700fps with a 28" or 30" barrel but I'm no expert on it but Noslers manual list a 250gr bullet at 2424fps max out of a 24" barrel for the 338-06.

 

[hseII]

You may want a longer action if you were needing to seat long heavyweight bullets out further (ie 300 grainers), but some long action actions have longer magazine boxes that allow seating bullets out further than others with ordinary 185-250 gr bullets.

Yes, you can fire ordinary ammo in an AI chamber. You may lose some performance with factory ammo in the improved chamber vs the regular chamber, but it will be minimal. And your scope may not be sighted in for the "reduced" load. But a quick adjustment in field can be done to correct this, if required.

So a Wyatt's blind magazine pared with a regular Long action should be enough length for just about any 250 grain combo?

2700 fps 250gr Accubonds from a 338-06 sounds pure sexy.

What length barrel are you planning to use to get 2700fps with a 250gr bullet out of a 338-06?

I'm still in the planning stages: I was thinking 24" or 26".
If I have to drop to the 225 Accubonds, so be it.

You might get 2700fps with a 28" or 30" barrel but I'm no expert on it but Noslers manual list a 250gr bullet at 2424fps max out of a 24" barrel for the 338-06.

My Nosler book is on my bench, & I haven't yet consulted it.

Thank You.

 

[SJB358]

Just my opinion I think of a 338-06 with a 23-24" barrel set up to be handier and lighter than a 338 Win Mag would be. Running 200 Accubonds or 210 Partitions at 2700 plus wouldn't be any big trick and there is nothing that combo wouldn't hit very hard out to sane ranges.

Different strokes for us all though but sometimes we all get wrapped around the cartridge instead of making or buying the rifle we want and then figuring out which cartridge gets us to where we wanna be FPS wise.

Just my thoughts. I love the 338. One of my favorites and my favorite to have in my hands when I'm hunting tough conditions and want it all in my favor.

 

[Blkram]

I have only shot a black bear with the 215 gr SGK out of my 338-06 so far. Carried it everyday this year until the day I shot my moose with my new 6.5 Creedmoor (wife suggested a change in firearms that day may be the change in luck I needed...seemed to have worked!)

Am looking forward to harvesting game with it...next year...

I went with a 22" barrel on my rifle (with open sights) as I wanted it to be handy in the woods.

I had DrMike give me some QL data when I was trying to determine what powders to try with the 210 Partition and 215 SGK. (I have other larger calibers for use with heavier bullets). My load was max as per that data.

As Norma usually loads Weatherby ammo as hot as they can, actually getting factory specs from a 22" barrel is pretty good performance. Getting it with a slightly heavier bullet and not having any pressure signs, was even better. I was happy with the load and did not go any further. And it appears that I may have a "fast" barrel.

 

[Dwh7271]

I run the 210 PT out of a 338/06 with a 22" barrel at 2740. It's ok in my rifle YMMV. Could even maybe go a hair faster but that's ok.
I played w the 225AB and it did fine but IMO if you're looking for 2750 or higher w the 225, a 338 WM is probably the best bet. Running that or higher in a regular chamber., regular throated 338/06 is going to be tugging on the tigers tail as far as pressure. There is a correlation between speed and pressure. The Whelen is going to be similar. Remember the Whelen and the 338/06 use the same case. Bigger the bullet, higher the speed, you have pressure.

 

[SJB358]

As Jim says, there's no replacement for displacement.

 

[35 Whelen]

Cheyenne,
I hope your grandads search for a pre 1960 Savage 99 in the great .358 Win is short n sweet. The featherweight model is my favorite for sure, the darn things are getting expensive so lets hope for a great deal for ya.
For what its worth I mentioned this to my pet "Otter" and here is a picture of how he feels about it too! Lol

 

[truck driver]

Cheyenne, I found one on Gun Broker.( http://www.gunbroker.com/item/610132617 )
Maybe this one will work for you.

 

[hseII]

Thanks for the input.

I'm thinking 338-06AI in a long action with a 26" tube.

Probably send it to ER Shaw & let them put it together.

I was originally thinking CRF mod 70, but this in LH has peaked my interest: http://www.nwactionworks.com/actions .

Again, thank You

 

[35 Whelen]

YH.
The one TD posted is the correct one! If you get one I probably have the correct Lyman tang sight to fit it, Up at our shop!
E

 

[SJB358]

That's a Beauty of a Savage....

Good luck with your build HSEII. That 26" tube should help you get the speeds you're looking for.

 

[truck driver]

YH.
The one TD posted is the correct one! If you get one I probably have the correct Lyman tang sight to fit it, Up at our shop!
E

I had one in 308 and sold it because I couldn't rap myself around it.
Like this one it was factory drilled and tapped for a scope or tang sight.

 

[DrMike]

Cheyenne, I found one on Gun Broker.( http://www.gunbroker.com/item/610132617 )
Maybe this one will work for you.

That's be a sweet rifle for the bush. I do like the .358 Win. Only had one Savage in 38-55; it was a sweet old rifle.