.358” projectiles out of spec is quite common I’ve been finding out lately

[badaxeriverman]

A few years back I was crushing case necks on my 35 Rem brass when trying to seat .358, 180 grain Speer Hot Cores. I couldn’t figure out what was going on at first. Check the specs on my die i’ve used quite a bit in the past with the same bullet, and the measurements were within spec. And then measured the diameter of the hot core’s. They were at smallest .3595” all the way up to .363”. I sent my two boxes into Speer who confirmed they were all oversized. I had to wait for the new production run which as almost a year. The new ones came at .358/.3585”. Seated nice and tightly like they should. No issues since till I bought a 35 Whelen and kept getting fist sized groups, and larger, at 100 yards with several bullet choices. My barrel on the whelen is on the large size slugging at .358”. Remington told me it was within spec but on the “large” end of the spectrum for specs. My 35 Rem from Remington and my Marlin 336 in 35 Rem both slug at .357”. Makes no sense to me that the whelen would be at .358” and shoot the same projectiles. Anyways, I started measuring my jacketed projectiles that I can’t get to group worth a darn. Hornadys .358” 200 grain spire point measured .357”, Hornady’s .358” 250 grain spire point measures .357”, Barnes .358” TSSX blue tip measures .357”, and Norma Oryx .358” 250 grain projectiles meaured .3565”! The Speer Hot Cores that are .358”/.3585” shoot nice tight groups needless to say. I posted a group here in the last couple days that measured .427” at 100 yards. The others undersized above are close to minute of pie plate at 100 yards on average. I talked to Hornady and was told that their tooling gets dull or comes out of spec once in a while and had me send them back. They sent a return label and said they will measure them and send new boxes regardless of what they measure. Figure I’ll roll the dice and try Barnes and Norma as well. I’ve talked to Barnes in the past about the the .308” 180 grain TSX I have that measure .3065”/.307” and they basically told me they didn’t care and find another gun to shoot them in. So I’m not expecting Barnes to replace them. I’ve tried .243 XLCs when they first came out as well with the same undersized issue. Couldn’t hit a 4’ square of paper with them at a 100 yards. I don’t know why I keep getting suckered in to wasting money from time to time on a Barnes branded mono bullet because they never group in any of my guns.

https://imgur.com/T4uAoYZ

https://imgur.com/LDd1ONH

The Hornady are on their way back or I’d post pictures of them at .357” as well. I can post a picture of the Norma’s tomorrow if someone really wants to see them under spec. It explains why some bullets and ammunition just don’t shoot in your gun then you don’t know if you don’t measure. I always thought it was the powder. It didn’t like in a particular firearm over the decades when I didn’t reload. Now I’m realizing that a lot of manufacturers don’t get the specs right on the projectiles is probably more of the issue.


So has anybody run into out of spec .358 projectiles or am I just keep having bad luck with them ? I’m guessing it’s just not a common size projectile and that’s why the manufacturers have such an issue with making them out of spec? FYI I’ve used these calibers and another set to double check my homework. Same with my slug that measures .358” I put through the barrel of my Whelen.

 

[RL338]

I went and dug out some of those 180gr TTSX and they measure .357”. Next I measured some 225gr BT and .357”. Then I moved onto some .338 TTSX 210 and 225 both measure .337” and the same with 300gr CC.
I going to say my dial calipers are probably 0.001” off as they aren’t high quality , but they give repeatable results.

 

[badaxeriverman]

Whether my calipers read correctly or not the projectiles are .001” smaller than my slugged 35 Whelen’s bore diameter. Good to know yours are undersized as well. How do they shoot for you and have you slugged your barrel for comparison? My other two 35 cals…35 REM’s both slug at .357” so there wouldn’t be an issue with .357” sized projectiles with them.

 

[RL338]

The 180gr TTSX shot very well and will be my hunting load in the woods this year. The 225gr BT flat out shoot out of my CVA 35 Whelen. 250gr Hornadys have been a struggle.

 

[badaxeriverman]

Did you ever slug the barrel of your gun to see what the diameter of it is? I do this because I shoot Cast bullets in my guns or I would’ve never known that my barrels were a machined at a larger diameter than the projectiles. Your barrel might slug at .357”.

 

[RL338]

Never found the need to slug the barrel as I don’t intend to run cast in it.

 

[badaxeriverman]

Never found the need to slug the barrel as I don’t intend to run cast in it.

I thought the same and just did it because I was going to run Cast. Never had a gun that wouldn’t shoot until this one and I’ve owned hundreds of firearms. Glad I did so I at least now know what’s going on to fix the issue. I’ll be measuring ALL every one of my jacketed .358” projectiles before loading them from now on. If they are under .358” I’ll save them for my .357” slugged 35 REM’s. Just another good way to think outside of the box when you can’t get a bullet to shoot acceptable groups.

Another good way to fix the issue is to Powdercoat them. I found that if you don’t clean the copper jackets powder coat stick won’t stick to them. These are ones I pulled the other day from my ladder tests for the 35 Whelen. You can see the purple ones peeled the powder coat when pulled them. They also had three coats on them so only put one coat on them…is all you need. After I powder coated them I ran them through my lee .3595” sizer dye. There was a good amount of force when I went to size them down so they definitely grew larger than then .3595”. They all started at .357”. You can see on the blue ones that the powder coat sticks to very well and did not come off. Got the idea from powder coating my Cast projectiles to increase the diameter. I pulled them since I found a load without having to powder coat and figured I would run with my 180 grain hot cores this year and save my H4895 powder that I loaded these with with for the loads. I did have to sift my powder about four or five times to get the flakes of powder coating out of it, but it looks pretty darn good now. Ill re use my primers too. Those pointed 250 grain hornet days were murder on my Lyman kinetic bullet puller two. It’s under a year old and one of the projectiles poked right through and busted the bottom out when I was hammering on it. I don’t have the receipt, but hopefully Lyman takes care of me. They had me email a picture late in the day on Friday so I’ll have to wait till Monday to hear back from them. I blame the purple powder coating for not sticking because it was old powder. I had mixed in a container for a few seasons, but you can see on the 220 green SPEER in the Ziploc bag It never came off of. The 200 grain Hornadys were the ones the PC flaked off of. They were pretty oxidized and dirty before I coated. The others were shiny and new that the PC stuck great to.

 

[badaxeriverman]

Well, I just got off the phone with Barnes. After about a five minute conversation of trying to be told how to load my ammo properly and saying that they need to jump super far I explained that they’re still too small and diameter versus slugged barrel. Then I was told that my caliper wasn’t accurate. Of course, without them looking or checking at it I told them I measured them with two calipers, and also my slug with two calipers and whether the reading was correct or not my Barnes bullets are smaller in diameter than my barrel. They said they would send a return label and measure them themselves. Well that’s further than I got with them. The last two times I had massive issues with not be able to to hit a barn when I was locked inside with them.Lol. I’m gonna double measure my TSX that I had such a problem with 308 and probably include those in with the return label and tell them to measure them as well. Remember right there are almost 2000s undersized. I bet I get them both back and say they’re both fine. I’ll post either way what the findings is. I figure I’ll try Norma too and see what they have to say since I’m on a roll. I talked to at Lyman on Friday about my kinetic bullet puller thst blew the bottom out after 10 months of ownership Must’ve just wanted to go home. I called back today to make sure they got my email with the photo and whoever I talked to this morning said they should’ve just replaced it when I called Friday. So just down to the norma projectiles now.

 

[badaxeriverman]

Got an email from Hornaday saying they sent me a box each back in the 200 and 250 versions. Also, my bullet puller showed up today. Just waiting to hear back from Barnes and Norma now. Norma told me that I would have about $73 on credit with whatever they have in stock online and if I didn’t pick anything else out, they would just probably send a check back. Too bad they have 35 Whelen cases but not in stock. I would have Jumped on those or replacement .358’s… which they don’t have either. Guess I’ll just take a check if they send it to me and I’ll buy something else with it.

 

[PJGunner]

I bought a couple of boxes of Hornady .358 bullets quite a few years ago. As I was thinking Black Bear and elk for a .358 Winchester in an area that was thick, think Olympic Penninsula, went with the 250 gr. round nose. Bth boxes had the same lot number and the noses on those bullets were so different that it didn't take any measurement to see how far off they were. They may still be buried way back on a shelf out in my shed. I stayed way from Hornady bullets for a long time after that occurance.
Paul B.

 

[badaxeriverman]

My 2 boxes of replacement Hornady .358’s just showed. A box each of 200 and 250 grainers. I’ll have to open up both of them and measure and see if they’re bigger and diameter when I get a chance…fingers crossed. Haven’t heard back from Norma or Barnes yet. My replacement Lyman bullet puller showed up Saturday as well. No more 250 grain pointed projectiles going to get pulled in my puller. Gone through a few kinetic pullers now. My RCBS lasted about 18 years. Must have made them out of stronger plastic than the lymen. I did shove a piece of treadmill mat inside the base of the hole and put some duct tape around the base to cobble it to pull the last few bullets. I might leave it that way for a spare since it actually worked. Probably a good idea to put a piece of that mat in the new one too to save deformation of the bullet tips and to keep them from busting through the bottom of the hammer.

 

[badaxeriverman]

Just got an email from Barnes. They said my .358” TSSX tipped were undersized according to their micrometers at .3575”…BUT…within their acceptable diameter tolerance “range”. I asked them what their “acceptable diameter” range was and they wouldn’t share it with me. I didn’t expect any less of a reply from Barnes since the last couple of go arounds with them on other undersized Barnes .308 projectiles that I sent in previously. But…The customer service guy was pretty nice about it when I called him back to inquire about the bullets I sent in because he didn’t say in the email if he was just sending back my projectiles or replacements. He told me he could box up the ones I sent in or he could just send me another box... which was nice to get an option this time instead of just returning my projectiles like the last time around. I also only had maybe around 30, or so, of the 50 left on my box I sent in so at least they’re sending me a complete box of replacements, which is awesome. I would guess they probably won’t measure larger in diameter or shoot any different than the ones that I had. The “tip” he did give me is to make sure I load them at a super short OAL. I asked him even with using undersized projectiles and was told yes. He said to start with a random starting powder load and to start them about .005” off the lands and work my way all the way back to even as far as .025” off lands. He told me Barnes like a super LONG jump from the lends. He told me to think of Evil Knievel jumping his bike on a super long jump. I replied to him that I am guessing “in theory” with the big long jump using the projectiles probably not going to start perfectly centered with that “big jump” and will at will end up contact the lands on some side of my barrel’s rifling…and he pretty much said yes that’s the reason they “like the big jump”. I guess it’s worth a try to burn up some powder when they come back. I’ll just use some powder. I have the most of. I’ll just load a starting load end adjust my overall length from 50,000 to about 200,000s until they start looking stupid short and test them in three shot groups. He told me whichever one shot the Titus group to then start ladder testing it with powders so basically you’re burning up a bunch of extra mono bullets just to try and find bullet to shoot halfway decent IMO. Sounds Like way too much trouble to get a mono bullet to shoot halfway decent to me. I probably won’t open them and just throw them on my shelf until someday when I’m super bored and have mother better to do…which will probably never happen. Glad I don’t live in a state where I have to use monos.

 

[badaxeriverman]

Just had a chance to open both replacement boxes of Hornady projectiles. I measured 2 frome each box of 250's and 200's. Happy to report all four measured .358". I won't end up doing any laddrr tests with them any time soon. Ill just put them back into my inventory for time being. I also noticed i cant put any force what so ever on my caliper or it would read .3575"/.357". It would go back to .358" when i took my finger off of it. Guessing there is some flex on the jackets and attached very well to the cores. Either that or my caliper is super sensitive. It didnt do that with the ones i sent in.