6.5 x 54 m.S.

[Europe]

will wonders never cease

My granddaughter has taken a liking to her grandfathers old M.S.. He used 160 weight bullets when he used it, but that was a while back

I see wood leigh has 140 and 160

What are you fellows using ? thanks

 

[DrMike]

I'd love to have a 6.5X54 MS! Consequently, because I don't own one, I'm not using anything. No doubt, the choice of bullet weight is dependent upon the game one intends to take with the cartridge. I'd be inclined, with the modern bullets and powders available, to opt for a 130 grain or 140 grain bullet, depending upon what I was hunting. Charged with some of the newer powders, the old warhorse would really "POP."

 

[Europe]

Dr Mike, thank you

In her infinite wisdom she wants to take it to Africa for her plains game hunt. Since she will not be hunting any of the big 5 or even dangerous 7, she wants to take that rifle that her grandfather used in Africa and her new 7mm-08 that got her.

The wood leigh for that hunt works for me, and to be honest I think the 140 would be all she would need. She wants to take five animals and she is working on that list --- so far the zebra and giraffe are OFF the list

But appreciate knowing what others are using or would use

 

[DrMike]

I'd be most comfortable with my daughter (or granddaughter) endeavouring to take plains game using the 140 grain Woodleigh PP SN in this particular cartridge. That bullet should stand her in good stead.

 

[Anonymous]

Most of the loading manuals approach the 6.5x54MS with an abundance of caution befitting very old rifles, as a result there just isn't much difference in MV between the two, maybe 100 or so feet per second and neither are screamers.

I'd let the rifle tell you what it likes with accuracy as there won't be an appreciable amount of difference in trajectory or effect on the animals. Either will do the trick.

Is the rifle scoped? With irons, I'd wager you wouldn't be able to tell any perceptible difference in accuracy either.

Those are really a classy little rifle!

 

[Europe]

Mike and Dr Mike --thank you gentlemen

Mike, it is not scoped, never has been and would not be easy to do--obviously this limits her range and to be honest animals available that she can hunt with it. Her short list ( of her 5 ) looks like

Gemsbok, Impala, Kudu, Lechwe, Sable Antelope. It is not the size of some of these that concerns me, but the difficulty in getting close enough to use the old war horse. I have made arrangements for her to have a gun bearer of sorts, thereby allowing her to carry both rifles into the field. The 7mm-08 is scoped.

I think I will suggest to her father that he order both the 140 and 160 and see which one works best. However I tend to agree with Dr Mike about the 140--but it is best to wait and see which one the gun prefers.

Kind of a pain in the butt, but it is important to her, I am such a sucker for my grandchildren, especially her

 

[Anonymous]

With irons, you're looking at 100 to 150 yards at most unless she's got a lot of trigger time with the rifle.

I'd probably pick 140s and just roll with it and hope the slight bump in MV gets you a bit more expansion and energy transfer. Good call with having someone haul the 7-08 along. I did something similar when I carried my ancient 30-30 for a caribou season...never got close enough to shoot it but used my son's 7-08 to take a couple beyond the reach of the 30WCF.

Just for kicks, let her read Bartlett's "The Last Voyage of the Karluk"...the 6.5x54 figures prominently and the crew shoots a pile of seals and more than a few polar bears with the rifle.

 

[Europe]

yeah Mike, I am pushing her toward using it to take an Impala at a water hole and say she did it and then hunt everything else with her 7mm-08. On her list the Sable and Kudu could also be taken via water hole blind, but she is young and setting and waiting is not something most young folks are good at. Also an impala is not something she wants btw. Her mother has really spoiled that girl

Thanks for the heads up on the book, it would be a good read for her on the flight

and thanks again to both of you for the assist

 

[DrMike]

For my part, I'm increasingly content to "sit and wait." The days of walking for long distances through the mountains is somewhere in the dim past. :lol:

 

[Blkram]

Sounds like it will be a great hunt for her!
I too, would suggest finding what load the rifle prefers.
If it does not do well (or acceptably well enough) with the Woodleigh's, you may want to consider a Partition or A-Frame alternative. Experimentation will tell.
Have her practice with it off of sticks at various distances so that she will be familiar with that style of shooting, and the rifle with open sights. That way she will be able to determine what she will be comfortable with for shooting distances with it. She may find that 100 or 150 yards will be fine, for her, and open sights.
This will also help, as its feel, and action will be different from that of her 7mm-08, and this will help her be better prepared to use it without having to think about it too much in the field. (Improved confidence and ability).
The best of luck to her on her new adventure!!!

PS Are you going to accompany her in the blind?

 

[Blkram]

Oh, I forgot...
if she isn't keen on the impala, she might look at the bushbuck...another beautiful antelope!

 

[HAWKEYESATX]

Just my 2 cent's worth.
I would have her go with the 140's. They get decent velocities, and plenty flat trajectory, and will bore through what you have in mind for her to hunt.
Quite lethal, in my opinion.

Sent from my moto e5 play using Tapatalk

 

[Europe]

For my part, I'm increasingly content to "sit and wait." The days of walking for long distances through the mountains is somewhere in the dim past. :lol:

Amen Dr Mike Amen !

Thanks Gil, good advise. I am going to make the trip, as I also want to visit with some old friends. However, I will not leave the main Lodge. She has asked if they can, at least on a couple of the hunts, not come back to the lodge at night. She really wants to set up camp wherever they end up that day. She never got over the story I told her about her grandfather and I on one trip finding fresh elephant tracks just outside our tent in the morning. Anyway, it is not a long hunt, maybe 10 to 12 days, so she will need to stay focused to take the five animals she hopes to harvest. I agree Gil that would be another one that should be possible for her, but I am pushing toward whatever can be taken with it, take it, and then use the 7mm-08, since all she wants to do is say she shot an animal in Africa with the same gun her grandfather shot one with.

Hawk, thank you

We are going to order the book Mike, thank you and thank you for sharing your knowledge with us.

Appreciate all the responses , suggestions and guidance, thanks gentlemen

as an aside Mike, you once said we went from black powder to levers to scopes or something like that and on reflection it is so true. I am actually happy to have her practice practice practice with iron sights on a big game rifle and then use them in the field

 

[wvbuckbuster]

A friend of mine had one of this and he shot Speer 140 gr Grand Slams in it. Both have since departed so I can't ask about the load. Hope she is able to make her dream come true! Dan.

 

[Polaris]

When I loaded the cartridge, I used IMR 4350 with Hornady data in both the 140 and 160 weight. Accuracy was excellent, and I wouldn't call the loads "mild," rather appropriate for the pressures of the cartridge. Never did take any game, but I'm sure they would have worked well on deer-antelope sized animals. The bullets I used were both Hornady. I have used the Hornady 140SP in 6.5x55 on whitetail deer, and the results were outstanding.

If IMR 4350 is not available, I would try something in the same burn rate. Should be ideal in this cartridge.

 

[ElmerThud]

Hi Europe, I have two MSch M1903 rifles in 6,5x54. One a 1922 manufacture ‘Takedown’ currently being re-barreled in the same calibre/certridge & the other a 1936 manufactured ‘Stutzen’.
I have used both on red deer and feral goat in Scotland, also I have used both 140gn and 160gn bullets in both rifles.
I can tell you that these rifles are gentle as lambs with recoil, neither is great at ranges exceeding 150 yards, the knock down power using the 160gn bullet (for which the cartridge was originally designed) is far superior to the 140gn bullet.

I have scoped my Takedown using Ziegler & Recknagel ‘QD claw mount’ bases and rings to fit a Schmidt & Bender 8x56 scope, 30mm tube. The butt profile for this requires resting on the chin rather than cheek, but works fine.
The stutzen is as yet unscoped, but I will scope it using the same German manufactured kit, but for a 6x42 S&B 1” tube scope. Giving better cheek/butt contact.

RWS make good ammuntition for this cartridge, although I reload my own using the Hornady 160gn RN bullet. Frankly that or the Woodleigh are the best for what your granddaughter wants to do.
And, these rifles have a big historic past in Africa, where I have been many times, though not hunting other than with a camera.

Getting in close to the game you’re after will be a challenge, but that’s the name of the game and her/your PH should be able to ensure good chances.
If I can get into red deer here in Scotland close enough for sure kills, you guys can do it in Africa.
The MSch will be great in use, as long as you’re sure of its accuracy.
Personally, I think they’re wonderful rifles.

One thing to do is strip the action and bolt and get rid of any oil in there. Strip the bolt right down and be sure there’s no oil for african dust/sand to get in and jam it.
You can always oil/grease up again after your trip.
Enjoy your hunting trip in Africa, such a fantastic continent with stunning game opportunities.

This may help, though I’ve been using IMR4350 & H4350
Rhttp://www.hodgdonreloading.com/reload ... eload-data

If the link doesn’t work, google hodgdon european metric load data.

 

[ElmerThud]

Just one other thing if you’re reloading 6.5x54MSch. .. .. most modern seating dies have seating plug that accomodate pointy bullets.
If you’re using the 160gn RN bullet, you need an appropriately shaped seating plug.
The pointy ones really don’t help when seating RN bullets.
Obvious I know, but people have forgotten about it.

 

[SJB358]

If it were me, I’d probably stick with 160’s in the old 6.5. It’s how it was made to kill back in the old days. Trajectory won’t be much of a concern and anything Woodleigh or similar would be wicked cool.

Didn’t Bell hammer a bunch of elephants with the 6.5 as well?

 

[ElmerThud]

If it were me, I’d probably stick with 160’s in the old 6.5. It’s how it was made to kill back in the old days. Trajectory won’t be much of a concern and anything Woodleigh or similar would be wicked cool.

Didn’t Bell hammer a bunch of elephants with the 6.5 as well?

Ha Scotty, well remembered. Yup DW Karamojo Bell certainly specialised on shooting elephants with a 6.5 ... lots of them!
And by the way, my little stutzen is a shooter despite its age haven’t scoped it yet though. That’s next years project. Still, it’s knocked over quite a few feral goats this season. Mostly ‘nannies’ only a couple of ‘billys’ neither with decent trophy heads.

The re-barrel job on the Takedown should be complete next month, so I’m expecting a lot from its new Krieger barrel.
At the moment I understand the gunsmith is working on the ‘feed’ from magazine to chamber.
It’s a long long wait for his work to be done.

 

[SJB358]

That's awesome ET! Those rifles are amazing little guns and anything 6.5mm is cool. Alot of efficiency with that little bullet.

Glad you are getting some hunting with the stutzen. That sure is a handy looking little rifle.