6.5x47 Lapua no Data other then by Berger.

[longrangehunter]

I started load development on a GAP Thunder Ranch rifle I got this month in 6.5x47 Lapua. The only bullets I've been able to find to use in it are the Lapua 123 gr. Scenar and the 120 Scenar L.

The two loads I've tried so far are 37.7 RL-15 and 38.0 Varget both with the 123 gr. bullet in Lapua brass and the CCI-BR4 primer. These loads were seated to 2.0850" CBTO = 2.65" COAL which is .015"-.0175" off the lands, and Reloader 15 seems to show some real promise but I only have 50 rounds down the tube and I was using some older (10 year old) powder I had left over. I do have 5 lbs. of new powder on hand as well as 5 lbs. of RL-17 I'd like to try.

Both those loads were in the 2850-2875 fps @ 20' from the muzzle, but I think the RL-17 might give me a little more velocity with this bullet?

If someone could post some data off quick load that would be great. I'm thinking 39 grains of RL-17 behind the 123 scenar would do well in this round but I'd like to see some raw data first.

The bullet length is: 1.30"
Barrel length: 24"

Thanks in advance.

 

[ElmerThud]

http://www.thestalkingdirectory.co.uk/s ... id=3038064

Might find something on here that helps...I have a friend using 129gn Hornady SST & RL17..his results are excellent but I don't have data. His barrel is 24" Shilen. Took the 3rd largest red stag shot in Scotland recorded in the last 100 years last October. ATB

 

[wildgene]

...some more reading...

http://www.6mmbr.com/gunweek072.html

 

[DrMike]

Cartridge : 6 x 47 - Lapua - 6mm HOT
Bullet : .243, 105, Lapua ScenarL GB542 G7 6050G7
Useable Case Capaci: 43.868 grain H2O = 2.848 cm³
Cartridge O.A.L. L6: 2.800 inch = 71.12 mm
Barrel Length : 24.0 inch = 609.6 mm
Powder : Alliant Reloder-17

Predicted data by increasing and decreasing the given charge,
incremented in steps of 2.0% of nominal charge.
CAUTION: Figures exceed maximum and minimum recommended loads !

Step Fill. Charge Vel. Energy Pmax Pmuz Prop.Burnt B_Time
% % Grains fps ft.lbs psi psi % ms

-20.0 77 32.64 2519 1480 32029 9185 97.0 1.498
-18.0 79 33.46 2580 1552 34195 9414 97.8 1.458
-16.0 81 34.27 2641 1626 36509 9625 98.5 1.419
-14.0 83 35.09 2701 1701 38982 9816 99.1 1.377
-12.0 85 35.90 2761 1777 41623 9987 99.5 1.335
-10.0 87 36.72 2820 1854 44450 10136 99.8 1.296
-08.0 89 37.54 2879 1932 47473 10262 100.0 1.257
-06.0 90 38.35 2937 2011 50711 10366 100.0 1.220
-04.0 92 39.17 2994 2090 54182 10464 100.0 1.184 ! Near Maximum !
-02.0 94 39.98 3051 2170 57903 10558 100.0 1.150 ! Near Maximum !
+00.0 96 40.80 3107 2250 61898 10650 100.0 1.117 ! Near Maximum !
+02.0 98 41.62 3162 2331 66192 10738 100.0 1.085 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
+04.0 100 42.43 3217 2413 70804 10823 100.0 1.054 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
+06.0 102 43.25 3272 2496 75782 10904 100.0 1.025 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
+08.0 104 44.06 3327 2580 81109 10982 100.0 0.996 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
+10.0 106 44.88 3381 2665 86827 11055 100.0 0.969 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!

Results caused by ± 10% powder lot-to-lot burning rate variation using nominal charge
Data for burning rate increased by 10% relative to nominal value:
+Ba 96 40.80 3213 2407 75364 10259 100.0 1.037 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
Data for burning rate decreased by 10% relative to nominal value:
-Ba 96 40.80 2943 2019 49845 11077 99.1 1.223

Cartridge : 6 x 47 - Lapua - 6mm HOT
Bullet : .243, 105, Lapua ScenarL GB542 G7 6050G7
Useable Case Capaci: 43.868 grain H2O = 2.848 cm³
Cartridge O.A.L. L6: 2.800 inch = 71.12 mm
Barrel Length : 24.0 inch = 609.6 mm

Predicted Data for Indicated Charges of the Following Powders.
Matching Maximum Pressure: 62000 psi, or 427 MPa
or a maximum loading ratio or filling of 100 %
These calculations refer to your specified settings in QuickLOAD 'Cartridge Dimensions' window.
C A U T I O N : any load listed can result in a powder charge that falls below minimum suggested
loads or exceeds maximum suggested loads as presented in current handloading manuals. Understand
that all of the listed powders can be unsuitable for the given combination of cartridge, bullet
and gun. Actual load order can vary, depending upon lot-to-lot powder and component variations.
USE ONLY FOR COMPARISON !

7 loads produced a Loading Ratio below user-defined minimum of 90%. These powders have been skipped.
Powder type Filling/Loading Ratio Charge Charge Vel. Prop.Burnt P max P muzz B_Time
% Grains Gramm fps % psi psi ms
--------------------------------- -----------------------------------------------------------------
Alliant Reloder-17 96.2 40.8 2.65 3108 100.0 62000 10652 1.116 ! Near Maximum !
Hodgdon H414 95.3 40.8 2.64 3068 99.3 62000 10927 1.127 ! Near Maximum !
Winchester 760 95.3 40.8 2.64 3068 99.3 62000 10927 1.127 ! Near Maximum !
Vihtavuori N550 97.6 40.3 2.61 3053 100.0 62000 10610 1.136 ! Near Maximum !
Accurate 4350 99.8 40.3 2.61 3050 100.0 62000 10450 1.147 ! Near Maximum !
Ramshot Hunter 100.0 41.8 2.71 3045 99.6 60116 10859 1.140 ! Near Maximum !
Norma 204 99.9 41.7 2.70 3044 98.0 62000 10868 1.121 ! Near Maximum !
Norma URP 100.0 40.0 2.59 3040 100.0 61037 10456 1.139 ! Near Maximum !
Hodgdon H380 92.7 38.3 2.48 3007 100.0 62000 10104 1.142 ! Near Maximum !
Norma 203 old 93.1 38.0 2.47 2999 100.0 62000 9721 1.152 ! Near Maximum !
IMR 4007 SSC 94.4 38.7 2.51 2983 98.9 62000 10154 1.138 ! Near Maximum !
Accurate 4064 92.6 36.6 2.37 2955 100.0 62000 9113 1.174 ! Near Maximum !
Hodgdon Hybrid 100V 100.0 39.1 2.53 2930 100.0 55955 9522 1.182 ! Near Maximum !

 

[HOGWILD338-378]

http://www.accurateshooter.com/guns-of-week/gunweek079/

Good luck finding the rite components but butchs reloading usually has that caliber on occasion ?

 

[SJB358]

Cartridge : 6.5 x 47 Lapua
Bullet : .264, 123, Lapua Scenar GB489 6032 G7
Useable Case Capaci: 43.674 grain H2O = 2.836 cm³
Cartridge O.A.L. L6: 2.800 inch = 71.12 mm
Barrel Length : 24.0 inch = 609.6 mm
Powder : Alliant Reloder-17

Predicted data by increasing and decreasing the given charge,
incremented in steps of 2.0% of nominal charge.
CAUTION: Figures exceed maximum and minimum recommended loads !

Step Fill. Charge Vel. Energy Pmax Pmuz Prop.Burnt B_Time
% % Grains fps ft.lbs psi psi % ms

-20.0 82 34.56 2441 1628 31698 8228 95.2 1.489
-18.0 84 35.42 2503 1711 33896 8453 96.3 1.448
-16.0 86 36.29 2564 1796 36259 8663 97.2 1.408
-14.0 88 37.15 2626 1883 38790 8857 98.0 1.365
-12.0 90 38.02 2687 1971 41508 9031 98.7 1.322
-10.0 92 38.88 2747 2061 44429 9187 99.2 1.281
-08.0 94 39.74 2808 2153 47569 9322 99.6 1.242
-06.0 96 40.61 2868 2246 50951 9435 99.9 1.204
-04.0 98 41.47 2927 2340 54596 9526 100.0 1.167
-02.0 100 42.34 2986 2435 58528 9598 100.0 1.132 ! Near Maximum !
+00.0 102 43.20 3044 2531 62778 9665 100.0 1.098 ! Near Maximum !
+02.0 104 44.06 3102 2628 67377 9729 100.0 1.065 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
+04.0 106 44.93 3159 2726 72361 9789 100.0 1.034 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
+06.0 108 45.79 3216 2825 77773 9845 100.0 1.003 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
+08.0 110 46.66 3273 2925 83661 9897 100.0 0.974 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
+10.0 113 47.52 3329 3027 90079 9944 100.0 0.945 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!

Results caused by ± 10% powder lot-to-lot burning rate variation using nominal charge
Data for burning rate increased by 10% relative to nominal value:
+Ba 102 43.20 3158 2723 76802 9251 100.0 1.019 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
Data for burning rate decreased by 10% relative to nominal value:
-Ba 102 43.20 2869 2248 50698 9975 98.0 1.203


They have the 6.5x47 Lapua in QL so it's fairly easy to run the numbers.

 

[longrangehunter]

Thanks Scotty for the QL...... Mike you missed the .5 as in 6.5 mm, no worries Dewey sent them to me as well.

The little case is actually shorter then advertised due to various reamers that are out there being used.

My C.O.A.L. is only 2.65-2.66" otherwise the bullet wouldn't be seated deep enough in the neck to properly hold it!

I haven't tried the heavier bullets yet mainly because of the small case but I heard RL-17 could help push those 139-142 grain bullets fast enough to make them on par with the 123 gr. class bullets. It boils down to speed vs. BC and which would work best?

Thanks for all the other info Guys.

 

[257 Ackley]

Another powder I found to work well with the 123 Scenar's is VV N540. My best groups and velocities were with this powder. USMC89 seemed to find H4350 with the 130 Bergers to work best.

The reason I never worked with secant ogive bullets (VLD style) in a hunting or tactical rifle is because most of the time you have to jam them to get the best groups. I don't want to use any bullet that I may have to extract from the chamber and take a chance that it may get stuck in the lands. Hopefully Berger will come out with a 130 hybrid soon so we will have a bullet for the smaller 6.5's that doesn't need to be jammed.

One of the guys I shoot F-class with uses the 130 VLD and R15 with great results on paper. This is obviously not a hunting bullet so depending on your application, it may not be a good choice. R17 is about the same burn rate as H4350, but the few guys I know that have tried it say the pressure curve needs to be watched closely and their accuracy was not as good as R15 or Varget. You may want to try some 4895 as well for results.

The heavier bullets for the 6.5 (139-142 grain) may show a higher BC over the 120-130 grain initially, but the difference in velocity will make up for slightly less BC. The little lapua case was never meant to be used with the heavier bullets. I did load work with the 139 Scenar's in an 8 twist Bartlein barrel and found great accuracy; the velocities were disappointing though.

Nice rifle to work with BTW!!

 

[DrMike]

Mike you missed the .5 as in 6.5 mm, no worries Dewey sent them to me as well.

Yeah, I saw I had screwed up as soon as Scotty posted. Too many irons in the fire and trying to read this while doing others things. Mea culpa.

Fortunately, Scotty had my back on this one.

 

[longrangehunter]

Mike you missed the .5 as in 6.5 mm, no worries Dewey sent them to me as well.

Yeah, I saw I had screwed up as soon as Scotty posted. Too many irons in the fire and trying to read this while doing others things. Mea culpa.

Fortunately, Scotty had my back on this one.

No Worries Mike. I appreciate your effort so thanks anyways.

 

[usmc 89]

You can try the Re-17 but I would stay away from it, my buddy runs varget in his 6.5x47 and so does his wife. The 130 berger is what most people run in that case at around 2950 fps. I prefer the H4350 in the 6.5x47 myself, better fill in the case and very stable in temperature variations unlike re-15 and re-17. Reloader powders work great, I have just had pressure issues when the temp got up there. I am currently using H4350 in my 6x47 with a 105 berger hybrid at 3000 fps with a 22" barrel. I haven't had to jam any vld type bullet in the 6.5x47 to make it shoot, most match directors will boot you out if you get a bullet stuck in the barrel if your told to clear and make safe in the event of an abrupt cease fire so I don't seat the bullet into the lands anyway. My load in the 6.5x47 was 40.5 grains of H4350 and a 130 berger seated .010 off the lands.

 

[HOGWILD338-378]

Cole I suppose you have seen this but just wanted to trow it in the bucket !
http://www.lapua.com/en/products/reload ... odata/5/54
That would actually be a nice problem to have loading for a 6.5x47 boy that's gotta be tuff ! I bet Jeff would be a wealth of knowledge !!

 

[longrangehunter]

Thanks Jeff, my issue right now is with finding the type of bullets I'd like to use? I've always used bullets that are never jammed into the lands unless I'm fire forming a standard case in a AI chamber as well as the issues that can happen having bullets jammed into the lands but I've stayed away from VLD's mainly because I couldn't get them to shoot? I had assumed they all need to be seated into the lands, so I stayed away from them, if I find the 130 Berger I'll give it a try. I do have a box of the 140 Hybrid though, but figured it was way to long and heavy for the little 47 Lapua.

Hey Terry, thanks for the input as well. I had looked there a few times before but was looking for something that used either Alliant, Hodgdon, IMR or Winchester type powders. I do use VihtaVuori powders but they aren't always on my go-to-list, unless you ask me what works great in a 300 Jarrett and I'd have to say N165!

 

[longrangehunter]

Another powder I found to work well with the 123 Scenar's is VV N540. My best groups and velocities were with this powder. USMC89 seemed to find H4350 with the 130 Bergers to work best.

The reason I never worked with secant ogive bullets (VLD style) in a hunting or tactical rifle is because most of the time you have to jam them to get the best groups. I don't want to use any bullet that I may have to extract from the chamber and take a chance that it may get stuck in the lands. Hopefully Berger will come out with a 130 hybrid soon so we will have a bullet for the smaller 6.5's that doesn't need to be jammed.

One of the guys I shoot F-class with uses the 130 VLD and R15 with great results on paper. This is obviously not a hunting bullet so depending on your application, it may not be a good choice. R17 is about the same burn rate as H4350, but the few guys I know that have tried it say the pressure curve needs to be watched closely and their accuracy was not as good as R15 or Varget. You may want to try some 4895 as well for results.

The heavier bullets for the 6.5 (139-142 grain) may show a higher BC over the 120-130 grain initially, but the difference in velocity will make up for slightly less BC. The little lapua case was never meant to be used with the heavier bullets. I did load work with the 139 Scenar's in an 8 twist Bartlein barrel and found great accuracy; the velocities were disappointing though.

Nice rifle to work with BTW!!

Thanks Joel,

I read your write up on your work you did a while back for your own gun.... nice shooting BTW.

I got some time today to run some new loads using Varget and the 123 Scenar. I dropped down from my last work at 38.0 to 37.7 grains but no luck there, and increased the charge levels .03 at a time up to 38.3 and then backed down to 37.4 to see if that worked, which it did.

Velocities taken @ 20' using a Oehler 35P five shot groups.
37.4 - 2864
37.7 - 2868
38.0 - 2879
38.3 - 2920

I'll settle somewhere in the 37.4 - 37.7 range mainly because of the node that seems to exist there. With the 37.4 load the first round for some reason was high (2898-2902) for some odd reason while all the rest were between 2668-2851 even though it was shot last. Shots 2-5 went into a single cluster.
The 37.7 charges had the least amount of SD-6 and ES-14 but the groups was just so-so, made a square with #2 and 5 going into the same hole. This is what I shot first over a 5 shot group using RL-15 the previous day.

Here's a pic of todays work up.

 

[longrangehunter]

After I did this I checked the dial up to check for scope alignment to the bore.... seemed good but was left of the very first shot at 8 Mils then came more center at 11 mils. Although the reticle is thick, which may have been the problem, that and the grass was very tall so I was holding on the upper 4th mil line with each shot.

Any ways I saw some flies on the tyvek and decided to check my zero, needless to say there is one less fly around here!

 

[usmc 89]

The 140 will work in the 6.5x47 you will just be in the 2725 fps realm. Wade stutteville formerly of the surgeon rifle team "surgeon decided to abandon the team" used a 140 in the 6.5x47 to take third at the snipershide cup. Remember your are going 308 velocity but instead of a .450-.500 G1 bc your getting .618 out of the hybrid.

 

[longrangehunter]

After some long range testing the other day I gave up on the 37.4 gr. load of Varget and the 123 Scenar. Today I tested H4350 with the Lapua 123 Scenar at the same CBTO length of 2.0850" and various charge weights of H4350. It took a lot to try and gain some velocity but in the end I gave up after 41.2 grains after only getting into the 2820-2835 fps @ 20' from the muzzle.

So after looking at the how well the gun like this powder I settled on 40.6 grains H4350 at an average of 2771 fps @ 20' which equates to about 2790 fps @ the muzzle which is what the Factory Lapua 123 Scenar loads their ammo to. Not as fast as the Varget load at 2885 but does seem very accurate.

I went out to a ditch to get high enough over the tall grass to shoot at the Steel Prairie Dog at 375 yards and made contact with the first round on the belly for sight-in. Then proceeded to make four head shots in a row, now that's 100 % better then the 2/5 I had done the day before using the Varget load.

Not bad for a few hours work.

 

[wildgene]

..looking very good. As for other bullets, Western Powders lists some 6.5X47 loads w/ some Sierra Match bullets that might give you a few more options...

 

[longrangehunter]

I decided to rerun the VarGet load today because of the lack of velocity from H4350 in the little 6.5x47 Lapua using the 123 Scenar. I ran these tests at 273 yard round robin style only I made the mistake of dialing the change for each load while keeping the reticle over the larger center cross hair on the target. Mistake number one, old guys that can't see what they thought they counted should use a different scope. In this case it's a S&B 5-25x56 DT Mil/Mil MSR reticle but those hash marks are too small and I dialed the wrong direction not once but three different times in an hour of testing. Had I just aimed at the smaller triangle targets in each corner I would have had all five shot groups hit the paper instead of only four of the three different loads I was testing.

My thoughts on this were one: the 37.7 gr. load of VarGet had the lowest SD and ES over what had produced a better 100 yard group. That being the 37.4 gr. load, but when shot at 273 yards the edge went to the 37.7 grain load (.9765") over the 37.4 grains (1.1245"). Now that might not seem like much but a 13% decrease equates to a .3577 MOA load over a .4120 MOA load and had I just busted out a five round group for each load I'm pretty sure I'd have done better? But in this case I thought I'd try the round robin method but dialing was a curse for me moving back and forth 1 mil right and left which left me missing the target altogether three different times!

Either way I'll load up more of the 37.7 grain load and maybe tweak it using a different primer and/or seating depth and see what happens?

This test was done prone using a harris Bipod and a rear bag off a ditch which wasn't like bench rest style shooting but it does show more of a real world actual group one could expect from a quality build like the GA Precision rifle I was using.

 

[ElmerThud]

These are some details of loads posted by someone with his 6.5x47Lapua...maybe it'll help. ATB