7mmMauser = .280Rem

[roysclockgun]

I see a fair number of hunters claiming to use 7-08 for elk hunting. Certainly the 7mmMauser (7x57mm) case can hold more propellant than does the 7-08. Can 7mmMauser be loaded up very close to .280Rem? Once loaded to capacity, is the difference twixt 7mmMauser and .280Rem: Great? Very wide? Moderately wide? Little difference? Immeasurable?
The question came to me after reading that until one goes into heavier bullets, there is very little difference between what can done, ballistics wise, with 30-06 and .308Win. Something to do with short propellant stack being more efficient?
The 7mmMauser is an interesting cartridge, if for no other reason than to know that it has served various military rolls since at least as far back as 1893!

 

[Ol` Joe]

The Speer manual is all I have at hand at the moment but lets concider this. They list the following for the 708, 7x57 and W760 the fastest load for boths powder. The 280 is also useing W760 but the top vel load listed was 2857 fps with AA4350. Changing the powder changes the whole pressure curve and isn`t a good comparison, although it gives a idea of the cartridges performance.

7-08 - 160 gr - 2735 fps - @ 50 K CUP - 24" bbl

7x57 - 160 gr - 2605 fps - @ 50K CUP - 22" bbl
( these loads are for modern rifles, M98s ect and the std CUP for the round is 46K CUP)

280 - 160 gr - 2577 fps - @ 60K psi - 24" bbl
(which according to RCBS load = 50K CUP in this cartridge)

The 7x57 test bbl was 2" shorter then the 7-08 and 280s` which will account for some of the velocity difference.

The three are peas in a pod. IMO I don`t see enough difference to say one has any real edge over the others.

 

[rick smith]

The 7/08 is to the 280 as the 308 is to the 30/06. A 7x57 case has slightly more capacity than a 7/08 but less than a 280.Rick.

 

[Tom1911]

I am curious, in terms of actual hunting, is there really a difference in performance among the cartridges?


Thanks,

Tom

 

[roysclockgun]

Tom wrote: "I am curious, in terms of actual hunting, is there really a difference in performance among the cartridges? "

Good question Tom. I wish that I had asked that! I doubt that we can get much in the way of an objective answer, because each 7mm cartridge has it's own strong, loyal following. Those disciples most all believe that which ever cartridge they are using is the best of the lot. The 7mmRemMag, of course stands out and I would put that one in a class, apart from the other three. In terms of chronological entry into the world of hunting the 7mmMauser has to be the elder of the three (7mmMauser, 7-08, .280rem). The .280Rem only caught on upon being intro'd three times under two names. The 7-08 caught on fast, IMO due to being able to be used in short actions. Like some others, I believe that the real differences between the three, concerning ballistics, are minor. The .280Rem can be loaded hotter and heavier, but few need hotter/heavier in hunting. All are fine deer cartridges and in the hands of riflemen familiar with both their cartridge and their rifle, they are more then adequate for elk and moose. The 7mmMauser may not be as popular, just because being over 100 years of age, it lost out to the "bigger, newer, better" ad techniques that cause many to run to the gun shop. I am convinced that any number of hunters will line up, claiming that one of the three is superior to the others. However, I doubt that we will hear from many who will claim to have owned, tested and extensively hunted with all three. Except for paper comparisons, weighing one against the other using field results is difficult.
Hunters seem to cleave unto rifles and cartridges with which they are familiar. My cousin began hunting with an old Savage 99 in .303Savage, in the 1950s. He killed all his many deer with the rifle and when he had a chance to hunt elk, he successfully used the same, obsolete .303Savage. To the end of his hunting days, he claimed that rifle in that chambering to be the BEST, bar none! I suppose that there is a little of my cousin in all of us.

 

[Tom1911]

roy,

Yup, you're right on target. I learned at a very young age to not disparage three things: 1. A man's chosen rifle; 2. A man's chosen caliber; and, 3. Success!

I used to look at ballistics tables and know instantly which cartridges were "worthy" of being carried up and down the mountains of the west. But when I moved out of adolesence, I learned there were many ways of assessing a cartrdige's true value. Success bestowes an irrefutable argument: if your cousin was able to fell elk with his .303 Savage w/o losing any, that is testimony of authentic value. God only knows how many head of big game were felled by the "enemic" .30-40 Krag!

It took me a while to realize that I have more than impressive velocity in my 7MM Rem Mag. The fella who killed all those elephants with a 7MM Mauser got me thinking about the near mystical ability of .284 projectiles to penetrate! Knowing a bullet that does not reach vitals is useless, I came to appreciate that the long profile of 7MM bullets provide superb penetration. This penetration an be achieved with 7MM Mauser velocity, the magnums providing additional range!

I bought a .308 Win as my mountain rifle. I wanted to be able to load 200 grain Partitions for it when I hunt Wyoming. But truth be told, the 7MM-08 with 175 grain Partitions would work just as well. Fact is, I got a great deal on my Stainless Featherweight about 12 years ago, & I couldn't pass it up. Moreover, I do love a good short action rifle. If Sako would reintroduce its Finnwolf in .308 Win, I'd be all over it like white on rice!


Take care,

Tom

 

[Blaine]

Where I come from in Maine, there have been more deer killed with the old Winchester "thutty-thutty" lever action than all the other cartridges combined. Does that mean it's the best deer rifle....NO. It simply means that it will get the job done in the close in quarters of New England deer hunting. My favorite (this week) is my 7mm Rem Mag. Last season it was my 308 Encore handgun, the year before that it was my 270 Win. Point being that whatever you feel like using will usually be fine unless you're looking at smacking one at in the 300+ range. If you like a gun, and you shoot well with it, and if it is comfortable enough to practice a lot, I don't think any one caliber is better than the others. I currently own the following centerfire cartridges in one or more guns: 243,308,7mm-08,7mm mag,270,270 WSM,30-06,300 Win Mag, & 44 mag (ruger carbine). I have killed deer with most of them and hopefully will again. My gun choice is based on where and how I'll be hunting (still,tree stand,blind etc.) rather than based on caliber. I like to use my Encore handguns when I'm going to be doing a lot of walking (I don't do that much these days), and I like my 7MM when I'm going to sit in a tree stand all day. The 270 used to be my favorite "all around" gun, but that was because I didn't own that many choices. Now, I can't say I have a favorite (ballistically), they all get used a lot on the range. So pick a caliber/cartridge, learn to shoot it well, practice a lot, and have fun. When deer season rolls around you'll be ready, and you will never have to worry if you are using the "right" caliber. There.....that's my sermon for the day :lol:

Blaine

 

[jhalcott]

I have the 7-08, 7x57,280 and the 7x30! Had a 7MagREM and a couple wikdcats also! Within 100 yards even the 7T/CU is a proven deer killer.When you stretch the range is when the larger capacity cases come into play.The 7x57 is downloaded for the older actions and rated for the 46,000 psi military actions.Also the Military guns are usually throated for long 175 grain slugs,while the 7-08 and 280 are some what shorter throated. all that aside,either one will kill deer at several hundred yards IF you do your part.

 

[roysclockgun]

jhalcott wrote: "....all that aside,either one will kill deer at several hundred yards IF you do your part....."

Given that you own and have used the 7-08, 7mmMauser and .280Rem., Which one would be the one of your choice, for hunting and/or survival, if you had to choose only one from those three? Why that choice? What features make that choice more effective?

 

[Reloder28]

Roy,

Many people have opinions on the 280 but very few shoot them. I own 2 280's and would never part with them. I own a7-08, 7-08 Improved, 7 Wsm, 7mm Wby & a 280 Improved also. If I were to shed all but one, I'll take the plain old 280. It has put plenty of animals down. It shoots 1/2" evry trip to the range. I am a believer in velocity just the same as Roy Weatherby was. The 280 outperforms all but the 7mm Wby. The 280 handloaded can match the velocity of the Wsm with 160's. Yes the Wsm can exceed the 280 sometimes but not a nickles worth of difference in the killing fields.

The 7-08 is a sweet round. It is great for anyone that loves short action stuff. On the other hand, the 280 has not enjoyed the success it deserves. The 280 Improved was John Nosler's rifle of choice for ALL of his hunting.

 

[roysclockgun]

Reloader28 wrote: "On the other hand, the 280 has not enjoyed the success it deserves."

I agree with Reloader28, in terms of recognizing the .280Rem as perhaps the least appreciated caliber sold today. This, even though I have never hunted with a rifle in .280Rem. All that is written indicates that the .280Rem edges out my beloved .270Win, as the rifle for all seasons. This last statement, in part, may explain why the .280Rem has never gained one of the top slots of "most sold calibers". The .270Win has been with us since 1935 and most riflemen who owned one were not willing to trade up to a .280Rem for the slight gain realized by such a move. Certainly I can guess that many more owners of non-mag rifles would jump to 7mmRemMag or any one of the .30cal magnums simply because of the perceived gain. Even though the 7mmRemMag gives only small advantages over the .280Rem, the flashy name of that Mag drew many more converts who had previously carried rifles chambered for .30-06, .270Win and others.
If I were to choose only one cartridge in 7mm, with which to do all my hunting, it would be the .280Rem. While the 7mm magnums and the shorter non-magnum 7mm cartridges are all great rounds, none seems to be able to fill the job of all around, well suited cartridge, as does the .280Rem.

 

[Reloder28]

Amen Brother Roy ! ...Shall we gather at the gun rack !

 

[captdavid]

I own a comercial FN 98 in 7x57 and a 26" barrel 7-08 700VL. I shoot 139-140 reloads in both around 2800fps, and 150 PTs about 2700. My longest kill to date is a 135lb feral goat around 300yds. I also shoot 139 Light Mags @ 2980fps out of the 7-08. This should about equal a 280. I don't think , using an approporate bullet on pigs or deer that there is any practical difference. Shooting a +2" @ 100yds all are around dead on at 200 and around 8-9" low at 300yds. This will alow you to "aim at hair" farther than most of us should be shooting! If your considering a 7mm-308 caliber, it's my opinion that if you need more gun at under 300yds or less, you need a bigger bullet not more speed. capt david

 

[roysclockgun]

captdavid wrote: "....I own a comercial FN 98 in 7x57 and a 26" barrel 7-08 700VL....."

Of the two, which do you prefer for deer hunting? Why? If you could only own one rifle and the caliber had to be either 7x57 or 7-08, which would you choose?

 

[captdavid]

:? I'll give you the semi-long answer. To me one of the classic rifles of all time is a '98 Mauser in 7x57. I looked for a comercial 98 in 7x57 for a long time. After 8yrs I found a FN.It shoots around 1.25" with decent H/L. It is my favorite gun for pigs and deer. My 7-08 is a heavy barrel varmint special. I use it only when my shots might exceed 300yds, because of the light mags at almost 3000fps. After all of that, if all of my guns were stolen tomorrow, I would buy a 7-08 700 CDL with a 24" barrel and start looking for another FN 7x57. to some it up; the 7-08 CDL is a new 'classic ' and the 7x57 is 'the classic'. 'capt david :grin: :grin: :grin:

 

[roysclockgun]

captdavid wrote: " I'll give you the semi-long answer. To me one of the classic rifles of all time is a '98 Mauser in 7x57....."

:wink: Not really conclusive. No? By your post, I am assuming that the calibers could be switched in the two rifles that you've described, and the outcome, in terms of use, would be the same?

 

[captdavid]

You got it!!!! There is no difference in performance if you reload! Pick the gun that you like/fits you best. I know some claim higher velocities with the '57 because it holds slightly more powder. I haven't found that to be true. Like I said, If you'r talking about under 300yds or so their is no need for more for deer/pigs. For that matter a friend's son killed an elk at 175yds with a 7x57 using a Partition. It broke the shoulder and was found under the hide on the off side. capt david :grin: :grin:

 

[roysclockgun]

captdavid, are hunters still bringing in great bucks around Falcon Lake and near Zapata? When I hunted there, I saw some really nice racks come in.

 

[captdavid]

We had leases there for 7-8 years. We have been under drought conditions. I think the gene pool is still here, but over hunting and poor fawn crops have reduced the herds. only the really large ranches without small leases around them and the high fenced areas seem to be producing now. capt david :grin: :grin:

 

[roysclockgun]

Well hopefully, with the end of the drought, the bigguns will begin to make a comeback. Great country to hunt down there. Where I hunted, the guide had little sheds, raised high enough to see out over the cactus and scrub brush. I did not enjoy being in the stand and walked about some and ended up seeing more deer that way. That hunt was about twenty years ago.