a typical boned core bullet.....

[Guest]

I'm not writting this threads to debate.... but to reinforce the AccuBond
verses say Hornady SST.

I read an artical in The American Rifleman March 2007 by Bryce Towsley..
"The .270 Winchester... A second Opinion about Jack O'Conners Favorite Cartridge"

Bryce says he used a 140 grain "boned core" bullet. Down below his artical he has a load chart of the load he used. 57.6 grains of RL19 behind a 140 Hornady SST. Two shots... one at 250 yards in the shoulder and then at 35 yards in the other shoulder. The second shot did the,"rutted-out mule deer" in. He mentions it was a scrawny buck.
Sounds to me the SST failed, after getting through the bone.

"I'll keep hunting with my .270 Winchester"s", but limit my game to nothing much bigger than deer.

From my observation here on this site is.... The BT and the AccuBond are made for seperate uses. I learned, by observing, and listening, that bullet selection is as important as shot placement.

Why didn't Bryce, after 40 years in the feild, observe the same thing? It's not like the Partiton just came out. :shock:

 

[JD338]

The Hornady SST opens up to a larger diameter mushroom which limits penetration. The AB will not open up as much but will penetrate deeper.
There are trade offs with expansion and penetration.

JD338

 

[Antelope_Sniper]

In addition to what JD said, the AccuBond is designed to loose it's petals, and retain about 70% of it weight. The rapid expansion give a good initial shock, but still allows for good penetration.

The BT is specifically designed for deer. But IMO you can hunt anything from mice to moose with the 140gr AB in a .270 Winchester. But since I have a .338 Win Mag, it joins me when hunting anything larger then deer. My favorite bullets for it are the 200gr BSST, 200 and 225 gr AB's.

 

[sask boy]

Hi longranger, never be afraid to use the 270 win with either the AccuBond or the Partition.
I have used partitions for the better part of 35 years on Moose and Elk and have put a large number in the freezer. In the last couple of years I have also started to use the AccuBond and have had great success.
If you go on the hunting forum you will see the Elk I shot this year and it was with a 130gr AccuBond and after it weighed 109grs lodged in the opposite shoulder. The bull this year walked into my bullet at over 300 yards :wink:
Shot placement and knowing your rifle make up the majority of what is needed on a hunt.
In a few minutes I am going downstairs to my gun room and I am going to load up the last of my 130gr. partitions for a mule deer hunt that starts this coming Sunday. I sure sounds different as this is the first year that we have been able to hunt on Sunday.

Blessings,
Dan

 

[Guy Miner]

Bryce, like most gunwriters, makes his living trying a lot of different combinations of rifle, cartridge, bullet, etc... He may have been deliberately testing the SST instead of going with a long-time proven performer like the Partition. Heck, I like to mess around and try different bullets from time to time, even though I know the Partition will do the job perfectly, just like it did 25 years ago for me.

I'm not surprised when I hear of a big ol' mule deer buck taking two shots to the boiler room to drop. They're tough animals. If the first shot was at 250 yards, and the second at 35 yards, it sounds like Bryce may have walked up on the downed mule deer buck and finished him with the second shot. Heck, I've done that with a couple of rounds, including a .45/70 tossing big ol' 405 gr bullets! One shot dropped the deer, then I needed another to finish things off when I closed in, even though the first one smashed through both shoulders and disrupted spine before exiting.

Did the SST fail? I don't know, not enough info. Does sound like it dropped the buck though. The SST isn't a bonded bullet, Hornady makes the "Interbond" as their bonded version. The SST is more like a Nosler Ballistic Tip - a jacketed, lead core (not bonded) bullet with a pointy plastic tip. Both the SST and the Ballistic Tip have good reputations for accuracy and also for rapid expansion.

As a handloader, I'm just happy that we've got so many very good bullets from which to choose anymore. A staggering array compared to the relatively small selection available when I was young.

Regards, Guy

 

[Guest]

Did the SST fail? I don't know, not enough info. Does sound like it dropped the buck though.

The SST isn't a bonded bullet,.... spliting hairs
According to thier cataloge it is a bonded bullet.

Hornady makes the "Interbond" as their bonded version. The SST is more like a Nosler Ballistic Tip - a jacketed, lead core (not bonded) bullet with a pointy plastic tip. Both the SST and the Ballistic Tip have good reputations for accuracy and also for rapid expansion.


From what JD said the SST expands well but is limited to penetration, because it expands too well.





[/b]

 

[FOTIS]

The interbond is bonded, like the AccuBond is, not the SST. All the sst has is a mechanical expansion "control " system called the interlock. Kind of a crimp that keeps the core and jacket together. The SST stands for super shock tip and that alone says it all.

Super Shock Tip Bullets combine proven Hornady performance with a higher ballistic coefficient than available with most hunting bullets. The sharp, pointed polymer tip creates a faster, flatter shooting bullet. With its one-piece core and jacket strengthened in critical areas, the SST delivers much more controlled expansion and superior weight retention than other tipped bullets. Featuring Hornady's trade mark Interlock ring system, this bullet's core and jacket remain locked solid during expansion, creating massive wound channels.



The InterLock is designed to be a devastating hunting bullet and nothing less. The InterLock Ring - a Hornady exclusive - ensures that the core and jacket remain locked during expansion. The InterLock retains more mass, energy and momentum after impact and transfers that energy to the target. Its reliable stopping power has earned the InterLock a worldwide reputation as a bullet for serious hunters.




The Hornady InterBond Bullet features a proprietary bonding process that holds the jacket and core together for 90%+ weight retention. Combined with the proven ballistic advantages and accuracy of the Super Shock Tip design, the InterBond will make a big impact on your next hunt.

 

[1Shot]

POP you beat me to it. I was going to to say the same thing. People get the terms Interlock and Interbond mixed up.

My experience on white tail deer with the Hornady SST Interlock and the regular soft point Interlock is they react the same. They do expand but they do hold more retained weight than the ballistic tips. The SST shoots more accurately than the Interlock for me. I like the ballistic tips better for killing deer. With a 115 gr ballistic tip from my 25-06 or a 125 gr ballistic tip from my 308 or 30X47 HBR to the front shoulder drops deer in their tracks. I have had the deer run off a little ways using the Hornady SST and SP interlocks with the same shots. When you skin a deer out you can really see the difference in the damage done. The ballistic tip wins hands down. I have only taken two deer with the Nosler AccuBond 130 gr in a 264 Win mag. Both were front shoulder shots. One at 275 yards and one at 135 yards. The bullet seems to open up quickly like a Partition does and then hold together like a Partition does to exit with a quarter size exit hole. They are as accurate as a ballistic tip and fly like one also. I think the AccuBond is the best of both worlds.
I have not tried the Hornady Interbond bullets.

 

[Antelope_Sniper]

The BT and AccuBond also have a more tapered jacket. Thinner at the front, thicker at the back. I've tried both, but the SST's just didn't shoot for me.

But I have to go with Guy on this one. That first bullet did enough damage, that deer wasn't getting away. Weather he finished if off with a pistol (so it would still count as a one shot kill) or his rifle, either way, the big buck landed in the freezer. (Yes, I know this is sacrilege, but) I have no qualms about putting a round anywhere along a critters spine to anchor them to the ground, so I can finish them off with the second shot, and land them in the freezer.

 

[Guest]

I stand corrected, SST is interlock, mechanical lock.

 

[Desert Fox]

If I understand it correctly, He used the data from his SST load on the Interbond. The two bullet are identical in shape so it would not be a problem.

Again, I wasn't there but it seems to me that this is a case of poor bullet placement. I can't believe that a bonded core bullet like the Interbond will fail to anchor a deer at 250 yards if the bullet was placed correctly, even if the bullet hit any bones. That bullet has over a ton of energy at that distance. Deer doesn't have the bone density of a bear or an elk. The longest shot I had on deer was at 650 yards with my 280 Remington. The 150 grain Nosler Ballistc Tip hit the deer slightly forward of the shoulder and right at the base of the neck. The deer dropped like it was hit by lightning. The neck bones was shattered in pieces, the bullet was never recovered. This from a swaged bullet.

 

[SJB358]

I use the 150gr SST's in my wifes 308. They shoot really well in here rifle and have good performance on deer. I have never recovered one, so that is a good thing in my book. I also have an excellent load using the 130gr Interbond in my 270WSM. It shoots really tight groups at 200 yards. I haven't had a chance to use it on deer yet, but I suspect it will work just fine. If it wasn't for Nosler 2nds, I would use more HDY bullets. They have a good selection and seem like a very value priced bullet that works well. But, since I can buy seconds cheaper, I tend to shoot more Nosler stuff. Scotty

 

[FOTIS]

I also like Hornady bullets a lot.

 

[Guest]

Oh no, here we go....

 

[Guy Miner]

"I can't believe that a bonded core bullet like the Interbond will fail to anchor a deer at 250 yards if the bullet was placed correctly, even if the bullet hit any bones."

DF - the more a fellow hunts, the more he sees. "Properly placed" can mean a lot of things. A bullet through the lungs, or even the heart, of a big game animal (including deer) may well result in the animal running off quite a ways, while it bleeds out enough to cause collapse. Even with a big ol' herking magnum type cartridge! :grin:

I've seen different reactions to being well-hit over the years. Much prefer the instant drop, but it doesn't always happen. I've been fortunate enough to avoid tracking jobs on my own game, but have helped several other guys recover their animals only after tracking them - even when well hit!

Regards, Guy

 

[Guest]

Yo.... you hit that critter BEHIND the shoulder.. just above the leg, and your disrupting the lung AND heart and main artery. What more can you ask. It'll be winded and collapsed before you can reload.

 

[Desert Fox]

[qoute]
DF - the more a fellow hunts, the more he sees. "Properly placed" can mean a lot of things. A bullet through the lungs, or even the heart, of a big game animal (including deer) may well result in the animal running off quite a ways, while it bleeds out enough to cause collapse. Even with a big ol' herking magnum type cartridge [qoute]

Understand Guy, animal reacts differently when hit. Sometimes they drop where they stand and sometimes they ran quite a ways but my point is, a well placed shot will always anchor an animal. Sometimes you might have to track them but a second shot, most of time is unecessary unless of course it's a dangerous animal... We are talking about deer here!

According to Longranger if I understood him correctly was that Bryce first shot was at 250 yards. The second was at 35 yards, both shoulder shot. So I assumed that deer was still alive and attempted to get away when he approached it thereby necessitating a second shot. How long did Bryce wait before approaching a down animal or did he waited at all. Does anyone here have any idea how long it takes for deer to die if hit in the lungs/heart area. In my experience, it don't take long. The only time an animal lingers on after having been hit was when the bullet totally missed the vitals.

Just last week a friend shot a deer high on the spine with 140 grain AccuBond from his 270 WSM at 450 yards. The deer was bedded down when he took the shot. He told me that he waited 15 minutes and since the deer did not moved, he went ahead and approached it thinking that the deer was probably dead. But the deer wasn't dead! It raised it's head when he heard my friend approaching. A well placed shot in the neck finished the deer for good.

I saw this first hand also on two African animal. I shot a Zebra with 375 Weatherby at a distance of 150 yards. I thread the bullet through on a very steep angle shot. The 235 Barnes shreaded both lungs and heart and the Zebra traveled 50 yards, collapsed and died in a pool of blood. My buddy George on the other hand shot a Red Harteebeast at around 200 yards with the same rifle and bullet. The Red Harteebeast was standing broadside. The animal was hit farther back missing all the vitals. We found the animal no more than 25 yards from where it was standing, laying on its side dying. We've waited for almost an eternity waiting for the animal to die but it refuses. We keep poking the eye and see if it was dead but the animal still refuses to die. After almost 20 minutes of poking and waiting, we all agreed to put the animal out of his missery. The PH pulled his 357 and put one in the heart. It took another 10 minutes, I think before the animal died.

Each hunter experienced differ from one another but we all on the same consensus here. Placed the bullet on the animal vitals and you'll get you're game always. Missed them and you're in for a long haul.

 

[Lou270]

Towsley is about as close to a modern day Elmer Keith as we have (this is not an insult). Towsley is a big bore guy and takes shots at the .270 every now and then. I remember the article, but thought the 140 bonded bullet he mentioned was the Remington CL Ultra and said he was dissapponted because a "bonded" bullet from the .270 would not shoot through a buck. A bonded bullet with no means to stop expansion not exiting is not an uncommon scenario. I have seen several 180 gr Swift Sciroccos from a .300 RUM not penetrate through small whitetails (these were the originals, not the II version). The bullets don't exit because they open very wide and regardless of how much they weigh, the large frontal area limits penetration or poking through hide on offside more than anything else. I remember another article by Towsley about Moose rifles and he said how poor the .270 wsa because he saw a guy shoot a moose a bunch of times with the .270 with cheap 130 gr bullets were not penetrating. Bryce then went to say how good a Moose rifle the .35 Whelen is because he killed a Moose with one shot using 225 gr X-Bullets that went all the way though. Now, I don't think many will argue the .270 is better on Moose than the Whelen, but at least be semi-fair if you are going to use anecdotal evidence. Point is, when you read something by Towsley about the .270 take it with a grain of salt as he might be trying to drum up some controversy. On the other hand, if you want good info on .35 cals for example, Towsley is a good source.

Lou

 

[Guest]

Just from my observation a bullet that is contructed for the right critter is better on moose, although O'Conner used the same bullets for all? My father-in law mentioned to me to down a bear to shoot it through the shoulders... that may work fo that critter but not for a moose.. sounds like knowing your bullets is in order, and Towsely seem he lacks knowledge in this department thereof.... so he uses a caliber that doesn't require some, although you could still use the wrong bullet in the whelen too?

 

[SJB358]

Chances are he just doesn't like the 270. Its okay to not like something, plus it gives him as a writer a little character. Nobody can really argue thr 270 is a great round, but some folks just don't like them. My old man swears up and down a 270 is "light" for big game, at the same time he has used and 06 and 338 for all of his big game hunts. He hasn't taken a single head of game with a 270 but his friends, hunting partners and others have accompanied him and taken just about the same amount of game, with their 270's. Different strokes for different folks. You couldnlt wrestle my 270WSM from me. Scotty