Annealing - Glow or Tempilaq

[TackDriver284]

I have always used Tempilaq as instructed by the BenchSource manufacturer where I was advised to use temps between 650 -700. Reloaders swear by the glow method with the lights off and they never used Tempilaq. I feel that I may be using a short duration in the flame using those Tempilaq stuff, and may not be in the flame long enough for it to do anything. Not only that, the baked Tempilaq is a curse inside the case necks, I don't like that. I would have to scrub that stuff out after annealing. I have been watching Eric Cortina's videos on brass annealing and Eric gave great advice.
Do you guys just use the lights off / dull glow method and pull out of the flame? This is pertaining to those who use annealing machines.

 

[hunter24605]

Golly, I'm low tech here, I just set a medium flame where it comes to a fine point and place the case at the neck/shoulder junction and twist in my fingers until it gets too hot to hold, this is usually, not always, but mostly about the time of the color shift, then plunk in water. Sitting the cases side-by-side the "anneal lines" are pretty dern uniform on them. Does that mean they're annealed uniformly? no idea, but works for me and I get good case life.

 

[ShadeTree]

I know you said pertaining to guys that use annealing machines, but along the lines of what Hunter is saying and to give you a guideline based on my experience, I'll state what I use as a guide as too what is enough heat.

No lights off or anything like that for me. I spin my cases in a drill fastened in a vice with the case in a socket.......so in that respect it's the same concept......case spinning and heat applied.

I use a hand held bottle torch. I put the flame on the neck with some of it on the neck/shoulder junction. I watch the flame that's spitting out on the backside of the case neck. It will change color or flash over to a orange/yellow color right at the moment the brass is being annealed to what I want. Heat is immediately removed.

I establish a baseline of time with each cartridge size and type of brass I'm annealing on that session to help with the process of keeping it accurate and even. Some cases will flash over in as little as 3 to 4 seconds. Some are 5, some are more towards 6. I'd say average is 4 to 5 seconds with the size flame I use. I count out as soon as the flame hits while simultaneously watching the flame for the tell tale flash over.

Here's a small sample of 22-250 I did a while back. You want the neck/shoulder annealed and the heat line will generally extend to just below the case/shoulder junction. That heat line should not go down to mid case. Regardless of what way you apply it, this method of how much heat has worked well for me. No cons. Pros have been better results and longer brass life.

 

[Joec7651]

+1 for low tech here. Only difference is that I sit them in a pie pan of water then knock them over with the torch head.

 

[KinleyWater]

+1 for low tech here. Only difference is that I sit them in a pie pan of water then knock them over with the torch head.

Oh, I like that approach. Might have to try it.

 

[ShadeTree]

+1 for low tech here. Only difference is that I sit them in a pie pan of water then knock them over with the torch head.

Joe, probably the safer way to prevent too much heat from getting down low on the case. I've done it both ways. I've developed enough confidence in my method and that the case is not getting any excessive heat down low that I no longer put them in water before or after. I didn't like that the annealed part of the brass goes from hot to immediately cooled down. In my view you're introducing a certain hardness or brittleness back into the process by doing that.

I'm not saying I'm right and water is wrong, but I've been doing the no water method for quite a while now and am happy with the results. I put each annealed case right into an empty pie pan and let them cool naturally. In a couple minutes they can be readily handled with bare fingers.

 

[Thebear_78]

I always set up with tempilaq one or two cases to clean isn’t really a big deal when doing 50+ at a time

 

[sako2]

Golly, I'm low tech here, I just set a medium flame where it comes to a fine point and place the case at the neck/shoulder junction and twist in my fingers until it gets too hot to hold, this is usually, not always, but mostly about the time of the color shift, then plunk in water. Sitting the cases side-by-side the "anneal lines" are pretty dern uniform on them. Does that mean they're annealed uniformly? no idea, but works for me and I get good case life.

That's how i did it until i bought the bench source machine. I use the tempilaq and watch the brass closely you can see it change color.

 

[wvbuckbuster]

Joe, probably the safer way to prevent too much heat from getting down low on the case. I've done it both ways. I've developed enough confidence in my method and that the case is not getting any excessive heat down low that I no longer put them in water before or after. I didn't like that the annealed part of the brass goes from hot to immediately cooled down. In my view you're introducing a certain hardness or brittleness back into the process by doing that.

I'm not saying I'm right and water is wrong, but I've been doing the no water method for quite a while now and am happy with the results. I put each annealed case right into an empty pie pan and let them cool naturally. In a couple minutes they can be readily handled with bare fingers.

This. Dan.

 

[jimbires]

I anneal using a machine . I did experiment using 750* tempilaq , but I just use the dark room . I keep most of my old brass to set up on . that way I have things pretty well figured out before I run my good brass . I pretty much aim my torches at the shoulder . there is plenty of flame that flows up over the neck . when the neck just starts to turn red I advance out of the flame . the neck turns red way before the shoulder . I run the torches hot , so I get in , and out of the flame quickly to prevent heat travel to the lower part of the case . I'll guess 4 or 5 seconds max on the bigger cases .

from what I've read , I think 750* tempilaq is what you want . 700* might be a little cold .

I'm not sure how critical all this is . I think a lot more is made out of annealing than it needs to be .

 

[RL338]

I use an annealer I built from plans online. I run 7 seconds and then dropped into a dry aluminum pan.

 

[TackDriver284]

Thanks guys, I'll try the dull glow method on some old brass, I'll put some 450 degree Tempilaq on the body from shoulder down to the base. Should not let the paint burn off on half of the case or more and it should be fine. If the paint burns off halfway or more, then I'll put the point of the flame closer to the neck / shoulder junction that it would heat up the necks quicker before the heat travels to the base of the case body especially the small cases like the 6 BR.

 

[sako2]

Put the flame at the body to shoulder and try to match the angle of the shoulder.

 

[D21ALASKA]

Personally I use tempilaq and the Annealeez machine. As far as tempilaq in the case neck I use an old scrap piece of brass from whatever cartridge I'm annealing to set up. Then just run the good brass through.
I used to just spin through the flame in my fingers though I've always used tempilaq to gauge temperature. When I did it this way I would be using tempilaq in every case I was annealing. I just did that step before tumbling the brass and the pins take care of the baked on paint no issue.
Not sure I get better results with the machine but it is much more efficient.

 

[Joec7651]

Joe, probably the safer way to prevent too much heat from getting down low on the case. I've done it both ways. I've developed enough confidence in my method and that the case is not getting any excessive heat down low that I no longer put them in water before or after. I didn't like that the annealed part of the brass goes from hot to immediately cooled down. In my view you're introducing a certain hardness or brittleness back into the process by doing that.

I'm not saying I'm right and water is wrong, but I've been doing the no water method for quite a while now and am happy with the results. I put each annealed case right into an empty pie pan and let them cool naturally. In a couple minutes they can be readily handled with bare fingers.

I’ve never actually checked to see if one way gives better brass life than the other. I’ve did it both ways but never checked one against the other. You've got me curious now.

 

[jimbires]

I've kept this article in my favorites . it seems to have about everything pertaining to annealing covered. it's easy to read and understand .

The Art and Science of Annealing

6mmBR.com is the best guide for 6mm BR Benchrest precision shooting, complete with 6BR FAQ, Reloading Data, Shooter Message Boards, Reader Polls, and Photo Gallery. Match event calendar and rifle competition accuracy training tips. Equipment reviews (.243 bullets, 30BR cartridge, 6mm Norma...

www.6mmbr.com

 

[Dr. Vette]

For those who do it - note that water adds ( or subtracts) nothing to the process. You're just making your brass wet.
Try annealing a case for, say, 30 seconds. The anneal doesn't travel down the case very far, you just make the shoulder way too soft. Brass is not steel, so quickly cooling it doesn't do anything.

I have some sacrificial cases that I use to determine dwell time in the Bench Source. I use various Tempilaq stripes to assist, and also watch for the glow. As already noted in this thread, Eric Cortina did an interesting anneal experiment which showed that it's difficult to over anneal in <10 seconds. I encourage you to watch it.

 

[KinleyWater]

A very interesting (to me), very lengthy article on annealing - I have not finished it - https://www.ampannealing.com/articles/40/annealing-under-the-microscope/

Why, yes, they are selling something... what makes you ask?

 

[ShadeTree]

I’ve never actually checked to see if one way gives better brass life than the other. I’ve did it both ways but never checked one against the other. You've got me curious now.

I cannot say it extends brass life, but I do feel (might be in my head) that it's more consistent in results. I can't prove that either, but I've managed to shoot some dandy groups at times depending on the rifle and load using that method, so it sure isn't hurting the process.

My reason for trying it was when I got to thinking about what I was doing, as stated earlier, going from hot to instantly cooled down in my mind is not conducive to keeping metal soft and malleable. Doesn't work that way with anything else, so I didn't see why brass would be different.

Plus when putting hot cases into water the amount to which they instantly cool, and the rate at which they cool keeps changing as more and more hot cases are added to the water changing the water temp from where I started.

In the end all I can say for sure is that I get at least as good of results if not better, and I don't have to mess with wet cases and to make sure they are completely dry inside.

 

[desertcj]

I drop mine in water. Brass doesn't quench harden so it does not change the hardness. Interestingly enough, brass does age harden as well as work harden which we all know. I'm at about 3 seconds with .223 brass, bigger stuff might be 5 or 6 seconds. When the flame changes, that's the zinc burning out of the brass....too much heat.