Any 358 Norma Mag kills?
- Thread starter preacher
- Start date
- Thread starter
- #2
gerry
Ammo Smith
- Mar 1, 2007
- 6,707
- 1,303
I tried but those lousy moose didn't want any part of a 200 gr TTSX at 3000 fps. I honestly think you can say it is like a 35 Whelen but can deliver a bit more out farther due to it's higher velocity. It can fling heavy bullets out at respectable velocity as well which would give it an advantage over the Whelen. I also had the 200 gr load moving out at 3070 fps but opted to run at 1 gr less powder since it worked well. I do believe you can get more speed than that if you want.
- Thread starter
- #4
G'morning Uncle Gerry! I too have a hard time getting the local fauna to cooperate with my "ballistic experimenting", ha. What was your load again for that 200TTSX? I got 2950 from my Whelen AI on top of (come to find out) the equivalent of a pinch of C4, 70K! Whew, I got the old original 200X to 2970! I can live with what a Norma can do ( and continue to see properly, ha) Did you use Norma brass or necked up 338/300win cases? Thanks Pard.
I've shot quite a few things, including 4 elk, my bull moose and a few deer, with my 358STA using 250gr bullets at a little over 3050fps. That's as close as it gets for me. What a 358Norma will do with 225's the 358STA will surpass with 250's. At the time when I was hunting with it there weren't a whole lot of good bullets available. There were Nosler Partitions, the original X bullets, and Hornady 250gr SP. I didn't like the performance from the Partitions in my 300 Baer I used prior to this one and the original X-bullets weren't known to open well so I shot the Hornady's. They were super tough and I pencil holed a few elk. The good thing is the hole was big enough so it didn't matter much. Not long after that I built a few 358STA's for some friends and Sierra came out with a 225gr SBT. Those were mean little pills at 3150+fps. Nosler also came out with a 225gr BT (I'm not sure why they discontinued them because they worked well with the beefed up rear shank on the bullet). Not one to leave thing alone for long I built a .375-358STA after that and a 416 Rem. after that.
joelkdouglas
Handloader
- Jun 5, 2011
- 1,310
- 3
SJB358":24or625l said:
Scotty are you going to bring it to elk camp?
truck driver
Ammo Smith
- Mar 11, 2013
- 7,213
- 742
For some reason I can't explain the 35Whelen AI doesn't recoil as bad as my standard 35Whelen M700 Classic, both weigh about the same and both have the same recoil pad. Maybe you need to open the chamber up to an Ackely Improved, I don't think you would regret it.Elkman":3k8vmdfo said:
- Thread starter
- #11
TD-My Mod 700 Classic in 350 Rem Mag was a lot more uncomfortable to shoot than any of my Whelens! The Mod 700 Classic I had in 375 H&H felt a lot harder in recoil than the Mod 700 BDL SS in 375 H&H, but when I had the latter reamed to the 375 Weatherby, they felt the same, go figure.
Idaho- you say you guys used that Sierra 225BT on elk or just deer? I always thought the sierra would be too soft. I used and really liked both the 340 W and the 338 RUM, I suppose they are in the kinda sorta class of the 358 STA? I "thought" about that round, but then a lay down awhile and the thought went away,ha. Elk, deer and hogs are my biggest targets anymore. IF I lived in brown bear country, I would have to have another 375W ( purely nostalgic, I like reading of Hal Waughs Big Nan) I'm certain a 358 Norma will would do fine, but I'm not leaving Utah for Alaska and 20K is a "tad steep" for me for a brown bear hunt, ha. Besides, all those humped back bears give me the willies, didn't say I was "scared of them", just that I don't know the difference between a bluff charge and the real deal....I'd either get mauled hesitating or jailed for hammering him/her, ha. I watched "the Edge" again last night...whew. That particular bear "Bart" was raised out here, over in Heber, Ut (they call it Park City, but he was closer to Heber). He died some time ago.
Idaho- you say you guys used that Sierra 225BT on elk or just deer? I always thought the sierra would be too soft. I used and really liked both the 340 W and the 338 RUM, I suppose they are in the kinda sorta class of the 358 STA? I "thought" about that round, but then a lay down awhile and the thought went away,ha. Elk, deer and hogs are my biggest targets anymore. IF I lived in brown bear country, I would have to have another 375W ( purely nostalgic, I like reading of Hal Waughs Big Nan) I'm certain a 358 Norma will would do fine, but I'm not leaving Utah for Alaska and 20K is a "tad steep" for me for a brown bear hunt, ha. Besides, all those humped back bears give me the willies, didn't say I was "scared of them", just that I don't know the difference between a bluff charge and the real deal....I'd either get mauled hesitating or jailed for hammering him/her, ha. I watched "the Edge" again last night...whew. That particular bear "Bart" was raised out here, over in Heber, Ut (they call it Park City, but he was closer to Heber). He died some time ago.
gerry
Ammo Smith
- Mar 1, 2007
- 6,707
- 1,303
truck driver":12iffsvg said:
Almost certainly it is all about how each stock fits you. Everybody is different, I like how Remington and Sako stocks fit me but Ruger, Tikka, Marlin lever gns and the Browning A Bolt don't.
gerry
Ammo Smith
- Mar 1, 2007
- 6,707
- 1,303
preacher":3gs1dx0p said:
viewtopic.php?f=4&t=29104&hilit=358+norma
You can find he info here ^^^
I used Norma cases which were top notch, measuring runout of loaded rounds on my RCBS Casemaster showed it was some of the straightest I have ever loaded in any round. It is pricey but worth it in my opinion.
- Thread starter
- #15
Thanks guys! Gerry..I know I have a partial canister of Big Game here somewhere. If I can't find it available I will skip it though. I don't know if h4895 might not be a good one for less recoil in the 200TTSX and still get good velocity?
Idaho- Thanks Pard, I suppose that 225 Sierra should be a good one, might as well try them! I have a partial box of them here somewhere too ( probably hiding behind the Big Game!
) I know they shot very, very well in both my 358 and my standard 35 Whelen. I still have a full box of the old 250X...you just KNOW I'll have top try those! ha. Thanks again guys...I appreciate the sharing!
Idaho- Thanks Pard, I suppose that 225 Sierra should be a good one, might as well try them! I have a partial box of them here somewhere too ( probably hiding behind the Big Game!
) I know they shot very, very well in both my 358 and my standard 35 Whelen. I still have a full box of the old 250X...you just KNOW I'll have top try those! ha. Thanks again guys...I appreciate the sharing! - Thread starter
- #16
Thinking about that 225 Sierra...I based my opinion of it being too soft on an experience I had with their 300BT in a .375 H&H on elk. I shot a midsize cow right at 200yds, tight behind the shoulder. She humped up but stoof there. Since there was a "frying pan" ravine right next to her ( you know, the kind of ravine you have to take a frying pan down and eat them there? ha) I shot her again, but top of the shoulders. That 300BT left exit holes bigger than my fist ( and I have big hands!)
But remember the first of the Ballistic tips were soft? I figured out the best 30 cal was the 165 and not the 180. The 165 had "less" soft lead up front. The 225BT is said to be a tough bullet anyhow, and less soft lead up front (i.e that 300BT) would be better controlled by the tough jacket. Just my opinion, even though the Ballistic tip has that great solid base, I've seen many sierras ( like a 150 pro hunter in a 300win) act just like a Partition on small deer! Anyhow, its good to know they work in a 358STA! I'm sure a 358 Norma can't hurt it, ha.
But remember the first of the Ballistic tips were soft? I figured out the best 30 cal was the 165 and not the 180. The 165 had "less" soft lead up front. The 225BT is said to be a tough bullet anyhow, and less soft lead up front (i.e that 300BT) would be better controlled by the tough jacket. Just my opinion, even though the Ballistic tip has that great solid base, I've seen many sierras ( like a 150 pro hunter in a 300win) act just like a Partition on small deer! Anyhow, its good to know they work in a 358STA! I'm sure a 358 Norma can't hurt it, ha.
It's really too bad Nosler got rid of the 225BT's and 260gr .375 BT's. When you cross sectioned them you could see why they worked well. The shank of the bullet was super thick.
I shot a doe whitetail with the 260gr .375's out of a 375JRS at about 30yds. I think there was a problem with the deer because the hair exploded off of her upon impact. It looked like you threw a bag of deer hair on the ground around her when I got up to her. She was only about a 50lb deer and didn't stand a chance against that bullet.
BTW I shot a bunch of game, including 5 or 6 elk and all of my African animals (up to a Kudu), with the 250gr Sierra .375 bullet at 3080fps from my 375-358STA. I've never lost an animals and most were instant death. The only one that went far was a bull that I misjudged the distance on and shot clean through the front ankle (I thought he was about 500yds and he was closer to 650yds in the days before laser rangefinders). I still got him but it took about 1/2 mile before I caught up to him and got a good shot on him. That bull elk and my Kudu were the only two animals I had to shoot twice with the gun. The Kudu was 513yds. That gun would literally dump elk in their tracks when you hit them in the vitals. It was impressive.
One of the friends I built a 358STA for took it to Africa with us and shot a Wildebeast with it (they call them the poor mans Cape Buffalo because of how tough they are). He was in his 60's and got buck fever like a 12 year old. He had to shoot it 4 times because it took that many times to hit the vitals. He also killed a bull moose in Alaska and several animals in NZ with it. The 225's did their job if he could hit what he was shooting at.
I shot a doe whitetail with the 260gr .375's out of a 375JRS at about 30yds. I think there was a problem with the deer because the hair exploded off of her upon impact. It looked like you threw a bag of deer hair on the ground around her when I got up to her. She was only about a 50lb deer and didn't stand a chance against that bullet.
BTW I shot a bunch of game, including 5 or 6 elk and all of my African animals (up to a Kudu), with the 250gr Sierra .375 bullet at 3080fps from my 375-358STA. I've never lost an animals and most were instant death. The only one that went far was a bull that I misjudged the distance on and shot clean through the front ankle (I thought he was about 500yds and he was closer to 650yds in the days before laser rangefinders). I still got him but it took about 1/2 mile before I caught up to him and got a good shot on him. That bull elk and my Kudu were the only two animals I had to shoot twice with the gun. The Kudu was 513yds. That gun would literally dump elk in their tracks when you hit them in the vitals. It was impressive.
One of the friends I built a 358STA for took it to Africa with us and shot a Wildebeast with it (they call them the poor mans Cape Buffalo because of how tough they are). He was in his 60's and got buck fever like a 12 year old. He had to shoot it 4 times because it took that many times to hit the vitals. He also killed a bull moose in Alaska and several animals in NZ with it. The 225's did their job if he could hit what he was shooting at.
- Thread starter
- #18
- Thread starter
- #19
