At what Pressure

Teknys

Teknys

Handloader
Jan 14, 2008
833
339
Running Quickload for a 45-70 .. at what pressure would I set it for in a modern lever gun. SAMMI is what 28K? To get published velocities I bring it up to 55K and 60K.
Is this right?
 
If I recall correctly, the older Hornady reloading manuals having heavier load data for the 45-70 for Marlin lever actions that was safe (but not for other makes that did not have the same action design giving the Marlin that extra strength), and with lighter loads for the Trapdoors and heavier loads for the Ruger No.1. This means that the pressure rating for your rifle would be dependent upon the make and model.
I do not recall if they stated the pressure rating for the Marlin lever action or not, but I want to say that there were also articles written that did state what that pressure increase for the Marlin was...but dot recall the magazine, author, or date that this would have been published in. Perhaps someone else here may recall. I do want to say that it may have been in the mid 50's range (and I do not recall if it was CUP or PSI).

I noted this, as I had a Marlin Guide Gun for a short period of time, as well as a Winchester Model 1886. But as I did not keep either for long, I never did handload for either rifle.
As great as this old cartridge is, it just didn't appeal to me, and I spent more time with other cartridges, such as the 375 Win, 356 Win and 358 Win in lever actions, which I still have and use. But that is just me.
 
SAAMI allows 28000 psi; CIP is set at 2200 bar (31908 psi). You can up the pressure, without doubt, but you really don't gain all that much velocity before you are over pressure. For instance, with a 300 grain PT and 58.7 g A2495, you will generate 2158 fps using SAAMI standards. Using CIP standards, the same 300 g Pt and 60.9 g A 2495, will yield 2252 fps. You'd be safe use the CIP pressure as a guide. However...
 
The Lyman 49 edition lists pressures for various firearms. (1873 Springfield, 1886 Win and 1895 Marlin, and for Ruger No 1 and No 3) For the Ruger, max is 40,000 CUP
 
Hodgdon shows significantly higher pressure loads for lever action 45-70's. They can get a bit rough on the ol' shoulder, but I've loaded up to their maximum before. Not typically, but yes sometimes I have. This is for a 350 grain Hornady jacketed round nose bullet, one of my favorites for the 45-70:
1710012166084.png
 
As Guy mentioned, the Hodgdon data tends to be a fair bit warmer than virtually every other source. Personally, my loads for IMR 4198 and 300gr bullets tend to fall in between the "trapdoor" and "lever" loads from Hodgdon, but they are well within or even above the "lever" loads from the other sources.
 
If you want to toss heavier slugs downrange, Hodgdon still publishes a 2000+ fps load for a 400 grain bullet. For lever action rifles....

1710046946096.png


I've loaded and fired it. My rifle and I are still here. Now I don't know what sort of prehistoric beast for which this may be intended, but if I can get tags for it... Well then! :)

Guy
 
I'm told that some of the loads in the Barnes reloading manual (for the 1895 levergun) will reach 40,000PSI. I used their maximum load under the 250gr mono bullet without issue but shooting too many of them can't be good for the rifle.
 
Interesting to note the disparity from the various sources...and some given in CUP, while others in PSI...would be nice if it was all in one pressure type for consistency.
I have always heard that the 45-70 load data for the Ruger No.1 was approaching (but not getting as heavy as) 458 Win mag levels. That is definitely skookum territory, and as mentioned not one I would want to be playing with much for North American game (except maybe tracking wounded brown bears into the alders)!
But as it is not safe in the Marlin, it wouldn't be my go to load...and I would rather have the Marlin in that scenario vs the No.1, but at that range with that angry beast, you may only get one shot!:cautious:
And at the end of the day, I want the rifle to maintain its integrity with safe loads for it, as mentioned above. Not to mention, I am rather fond of my body parts maintaining their healthy status!:)
 
The intent of my use is for play and elk and maybe bear over bait. Just a firm hunting load would be all I need.
Not trying to knock down a T-Rex. Ha
Thanks again for all the responses.
 
When the 1895 Marlin first came out, gun writer Ken Waters felt that the Marlin was good for Ruger #1 type loads. I'm here to say he was flat out WRONG! Just ask me how I know. Seriously, as Mr. Waters as a conservative reloading type I tried working up to his data for those oh so very warm loads. I still was about two grains below his max when the loads started kicking he lever open. Thinking maybe I'd messed up ai dropped back a bit and started back up. Nope! Same results. Shoot as the lever would kick open ejecting the round. I guess I could have called that gun a semi-semi- automatic as all I had to do was close the lever and chamber the next round.

The gun was one of thert off the line with that horrendous curved butt plate and was never comfortable to shoot. The guy I got it from felt the same was. He'd just bought it that day and e were out back of the place where we worked. Even had a place to soot when things were slow. He fire one shot with a funny look on his face. I think he may have been trying not to cry out in pain. He hands me the riflr and tell me to take a shot. I was careful with that butt plate on my shoulder and touched one off. I didn'yt think it was all that bad and said so. He said, "Make me an offer!" Told him all I had was about $20 in my wallet but there's a shotgun in my truck if you want a trade. He looked at it and said it's a trade. I'd paid $50 for the shot gun. Mess with the marlin for a few years and traded it off for something. Not even sure what I traded for now.

The only 45-70 I have now is my Ruger #1dated to 1978. It's a fun gun.
Paul B.
 
PJGunner said:
When the 1895 Marlin first came out, gun writer Ken Waters felt that the Marlin was good for Ruger #1 type loads. I'm here to say he was flat out WRONG! Just ask me how I know. Seriously, as Mr. Waters as a conservative reloading type I tried working up to his data for those oh so very warm loads. I still was about two grains below his max when the loads started kicking he lever open. Thinking maybe I'd messed up ai dropped back a bit and started back up. Nope! Same results. Shoot as the lever would kick open ejecting the round. I guess I could have called that gun a semi-semi- automatic as all I had to do was close the lever and chamber the next round.

The gun was one of thert off the line with that horrendous curved butt plate and was never comfortable to shoot. The guy I got it from felt the same was. He'd just bought it that day and e were out back of the place where we worked. Even had a place to soot when things were slow. He fire one shot with a funny look on his face. I think he may have been trying not to cry out in pain. He hands me the riflr and tell me to take a shot. I was careful with that butt plate on my shoulder and touched one off. I didn'yt think it was all that bad and said so. He said, "Make me an offer!" Told him all I had was about $20 in my wallet but there's a shotgun in my truck if you want a trade. He looked at it and said it's a trade. I'd paid $50 for the shot gun. Mess with the marlin for a few years and traded it off for something. Not even sure what I traded for now.

The only 45-70 I have now is my Ruger #1dated to 1978. It's a fun gun.
Paul B.
Click to expand...
Cool story Paul. You definitely got a good deal.

JD338
 
PJGunner said:
When the 1895 Marlin first came out, gun writer Ken Waters felt that the Marlin was good for Ruger #1 type loads. I'm here to say he was flat out WRONG! Just ask me how I know. Seriously, as Mr. Waters as a conservative reloading type I tried working up to his data for those oh so very warm loads. I still was about two grains below his max when the loads started kicking he lever open. Thinking maybe I'd messed up ai dropped back a bit and started back up. Nope! Same results. Shoot as the lever would kick open ejecting the round. I guess I could have called that gun a semi-semi- automatic as all I had to do was close the lever and chamber the next round.

The gun was one of thert off the line with that horrendous curved butt plate and was never comfortable to shoot. The guy I got it from felt the same was. He'd just bought it that day and e were out back of the place where we worked. Even had a place to soot when things were slow. He fire one shot with a funny look on his face. I think he may have been trying not to cry out in pain. He hands me the riflr and tell me to take a shot. I was careful with that butt plate on my shoulder and touched one off. I didn'yt think it was all that bad and said so. He said, "Make me an offer!" Told him all I had was about $20 in my wallet but there's a shotgun in my truck if you want a trade. He looked at it and said it's a trade. I'd paid $50 for the shot gun. Mess with the marlin for a few years and traded it off for something. Not even sure what I traded for now.

The only 45-70 I have now is my Ruger #1dated to 1978. It's a fun gun.
Paul B.
Click to expand...
An autolever action , that’ll bring fear to the liberals.
He must have had a mighty stiff load.
 
PJGunner said:
When the 1895 Marlin first came out, gun writer Ken Waters felt that the Marlin was good for Ruger #1 type loads. I'm here to say he was flat out WRONG! Just ask me how I know. Seriously, as Mr. Waters as a conservative reloading type I tried working up to his data for those oh so very warm loads. I still was about two grains below his max when the loads started kicking he lever open. Thinking maybe I'd messed up ai dropped back a bit and started back up. Nope! Same results. Shoot as the lever would kick open ejecting the round. I guess I could have called that gun a semi-semi- automatic as all I had to do was close the lever and chamber the next round.

The gun was one of thert off the line with that horrendous curved butt plate and was never comfortable to shoot. The guy I got it from felt the same was. He'd just bought it that day and e were out back of the place where we worked. Even had a place to soot when things were slow. He fire one shot with a funny look on his face. I think he may have been trying not to cry out in pain. He hands me the riflr and tell me to take a shot. I was careful with that butt plate on my shoulder and touched one off. I didn'yt think it was all that bad and said so. He said, "Make me an offer!" Told him all I had was about $20 in my wallet but there's a shotgun in my truck if you want a trade. He looked at it and said it's a trade. I'd paid $50 for the shot gun. Mess with the marlin for a few years and traded it off for something. Not even sure what I traded for now.

The only 45-70 I have now is my Ruger #1dated to 1978. It's a fun gun.
Paul B.
Click to expand...
My Marlin commemorative did that with the Buffalo Bore ammo. I bought the Marlin in 90s it was the half round half octagon barrel model and it has a 26 inch barrel so likely the Buffalo Bore which is supposed to be safe may have added pressure with the longer barrel. They likely tested their ammo with the more normal shorter barrel rifles. What it would do a couple of times is just loosen the lever a little but that is still a sign that I should likely stop shooting the rounds in it.
 
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