Ballistic tips

[big rifle man]

We're my statements accurate or what.

 

[richcale]

Whatever, now I'm a sixty year old with a 6 y/o son! :wink:

Have a nice day! :grin:

 

[remingtonman_25_06]

not really, you guys have your views i have mine, its just that since your older your right and the younger guys are wrong. your to bullheaded to think anyway else, and im to bullheaded to think anyway else because im young. either way, we both could have a little more open minds. but you old guys are so set in your ways that you'll never change.

 

[Eagleye]

Rem Man, It has nothing to do with old is right and young is wrong. It's got to do with years of Experience. I tried to be tactful in a previous post about your bragaddocio, and condescending attitude, but that obviously had no effect. You seem to think that anyone who does not subscribe to your way of thinking is wrong. Well, I'm here to tell you to gain some real world experience [like about 20 more years] then come back and share what you have learned. I'm betting your viewpoints will have changed considerably. Regards, Eagleye.

 

[CamoWildcat]

Ditto from me, Eagleye.
I've got a 243 WSSM with a 6.5 -20 scope on it and I can hit a gong at 800 yds and beyond. I have a rangefinder AND a Chrony AND I have 45 years experience shooting AND hunting. But most importantly, I know the long range energy limits of my cartridges AND I know the limits for a SURE AND HUMANE kill on the game I shoot. Any kid can take potshots at game that is 800 yards away. It takes skill to cut that distance in half and make that SURE and HUMANE shot.
Rem Man, you had better stop and think for a minute before you alienate everyone on this forum. You are irritating quite a few people. I for one am getting VERY tired of your BS.

 

[remingtonman_25_06]

I dont care if your gettin tired of it or not. All I do is tell my experiences just like you guys. But you guys get all bent out of shape for the way I do things or perceive things. Its not your place to tell me how or what to do anyways. I dont tell you guys how or what to do, and I dont expect it ouf of you guys either. Just because you have all that equipment doesn't mean you can hit things at 800 yards. You have to know hot to USE it and PRACTICE. Duh. SOmething I do at least 2-3 times a week at the ranges I speak of. If you guys dont like what I have to say, then keep it to yourself and dont say anything. I have quite a bit of experience and knowlege when it comes to long range shooting and ballistics. How many 20 year old kids are even on this site??? Probly not to many because they dont give a shit about any of it. Obviously I'm different and I dont like to be treated as so. I knew from the start this was not the place to advocate long range HUNTING, but I chose to share my experiences both short and long. Thats why my preferred site is still longrangehunting, you dont have a bunch of people telling you how far is to far. Just a bunch of people interested in teh same thing I am. ITs just maybe you old guys are still stuck back in teh 50's with your 300 yard long shots, or maybe reading to many magazines and believeing that 300 yards and beyond is not necesary, or "lucky" shots. IF thats the way it is fine, I have no problems with it. As long as you kill your animal I dont care if you throw a rock at it. You guys aren't ever going to change my mind or views. Long range hunting is a small percentage of people, obviously not for everybody. I just thought maybe I could share my stories and experiences without getting slammed on, but obviously this is not the place because its filled with people who dont believe in shooting at game past 300 yards. I dont really care, and I'll continue to shoot my deer and elk at 500-600 yards on the 1st shot and kill them just fine as you guys are at 100-300 yards.

 

[richcale]

I just thought maybe I could share my stories and experiences without getting slammed on...

Yeah, me too!
You jumped me RemMan. I was just relaying my experience to the poster. I had not written anything to you or about you. You called me out and that's the way it is. I had no idea you were 20 until you announced it. Quite frankly I don't care as long as you're not calling me a liar, you can post anything you want.

 

[Eagleye]

I dont really care, and I'll continue to shoot my deer and elk at 500-600 yards on the 1st shot and kill them just fine.

Yep, You just keep doing that! But when you screw up royally, and wound that majestic elk at 600+ yards, and fail to recover, then you will sing a new song. But the first four words in the quote above sum it up well, I believe. Wrap a towel around your neck son, your shoulders are getting wet from the moisture behind your ears! :grin: :wink: Regards, Eagleye.

 

[CamoWildcat]

The KID thinks he invented long range shooting. I was shooting groundhogs at 600 yards with a Remington 6mm heavy barrel before he was even born. Only thing was, I didn't have the luxury of a range finder as they hadn't been invented yet. We had to pace off our shots. But I wouldn't even consider a 600 yard shot on an elk - there is simply too much risk of the initial shot not being fatal.
KID, you ought to know that the slightest little error means the difference between a clean kill and a wounded animal. But I guess you are willing to take that chance. Too bad. By the way, who introduced you to shooting and hunting? Surely not some 'old' guy like your dad, since us 'old' guys don't know what we're talking about.

 

[remingtonman_25_06]

I surely did not invent shooting long range, but I try to perfect it in every way possible. BTW, my dad did get me into hunting and shooting, but not long range shooting. The story goes like this. We were hiking up a canyon, I spotted a large 4x4 muley buck. I had never shot a 4x4 and really wanted to take the shot. It was 400 yards. My dad said, "no lets get closer" I said ok dad. We took maybe 10 steps and that deer bolted never to be seen again. From that day on, I wanted to shoot long range. I coulda sat down and made that shot easily today. I feel it only helps bring home the bacon for a successful hunt. I would rather shoot something then go home empty handed at this point in my life. From then on, I started shooting milk jugs at 300 yards, i was about 13 at the time. I also started getting on the internet and talking to guys that shot long range and knowing the proper equipment and how to properly use it to be successful. I also have a range out to 1150 yards that is a whole 5 minute drive from my house, so I practice at least 3-4 times a week. Long range shots dont happen by luck when you do it over and over again. I graduated my distance every 100 yards when I got really good at wacking them jugs. I figured if I could hit a milk jug, deer are in serious trouble. I know very slight occuracnes happen, but I have a brain, I wont shoot in 10 mph winds. Thats pretty much the only thing that we long range shooters have to deal with. Elevation is sorted out easily by a rangefinder and a click system with a drop chart. Wind is negligible if its no more then 5 mph out to 400 yards. When shooting big heavy high BC bullets, they buck the wind very good out to 500 yards. And with a wind meter and very low winds, you can place your bullet within inches of your target at 500 yards. Its not that hard guys. Every time I go out yote hunting or whatever, I find inatimate objects to shoot at 500-700 yards. My dad spots for me. I lay prone get my clicks set up for elevation and wind and 90% of the time, I will hit what I want to and per say, that would be a dead deer or elk. If I dont hit it, its because I'm a couple inches to the left or right due to wind. How many hunters you know place there bullets within inches at say 300 yards? Its no different at 600 yards. A couple inches is a couple inches. Deer have a vital zone of 10", My rifles shoot at least a 7" group at 600 yards before they hit the field and expect to hit a deer. Along with practice, practice, and some more practice.

 

[CamoWildcat]

When shooting big heavy high BC bullets, they buck the wind very good out to 500 yards. And with a wind meter and very low winds, you can place your bullet within inches of your target at 500 yards.

I lay prone get my clicks set up for elevation and wind and 90% of the time, I will hit what I want to and per say, that would be a dead deer or elk. If I dont hit it, its because I'm a couple inches to the left or right due to wind.

You have no way of knowing what the wind is doing 500 yards away. As far as high BC bullets bucking the wind - 30 cal 165 grain .477 BC bullet leaving the muzzle at 3200 FPS drifts 16.6" at 500 yards in a 10 mph crossing wind. 16.6" If you get it HALF right, you end up with a gut shot animal dying a miserable death.

And you said 90% of the time you will hit what you want to. That means 10% of the time you don't. Every tenth animal gets wounded - and dies that miserable death.

Do you have any idea how much energy your bullets have remaining at 800 yards? I don't have a clue. I've only seen that information (published) out to 600 yards. If you insist on taking shots out to 800 yards and beyond, I think you owe it to the animal for you to know your bullet still has enough remaining energy to HUMANELY kill.

 

[remingtonman_25_06]

Lets do one of my comparisons. 210g berger VLD with a BC of .640 at 3100fps. If you had a ballistics program, you would know that you can find out your ballistics out to 2000 yards. Not just published out to 600. Something a lot of you guys dont know. I have windmeter to tell me what the winds doing at my muzzle and thats where it effects your bullet most, through my scope I can look downrange at grass, or trees or whatever and try to tell if the wind is switching on me. Anyways, at 500 yards that bullet would drift 12 inches at 500 yards. I told you I'm not good at shooting in 10mph winds. I would shoot only in 5 or less. At 5 mph, that means 6 inches of drift, or 5 clicks for windage. If there is only a couple mph that is only 2-3 inches of drift, and about 2-3 clicks. Say I put on 5 clicks for what I think it should be, and for heaven sakes I'm off 1-2 clicks, my bullet is still going to land at most 3 inches off point of aim. If the windmeter says 5mph, im not going to compensate for 2-3 mph, so I'll be a lot closer then HALF right. That still going to kill my deer or elk, easily, Get it? 90% of the time i can make pretty much a dead center hit on rocks or whatever I intend to practice at ranges out to 700 yards, which means the othe 10% hit a couple inches to the right or left. That is a couple inches which will still have killed my deer or elk. Deer have a zone of 10" and elk are about 18", so whats a couple inches going to do? Not a whole hell of a lot, its still going to either take out the shoulder or lungs and thats all I need it to do. Ok, now to energy levels at 800 yards that particular load still has 1900 ft lbs, and still traveling along at over 2000fps. Are you trying to tell me that, that particular bullet will not destroy anything in its path, even out to 800 yards? It still has enough energy and velocity to do the job at past 1K with a solid hit, it doesn't matter how far your shooting, it matters what your ballistics are showing you at those ranges. Thats the whole point of shooting a fast magnum with a high BC bullet. You can obviously see that it carries far off, and retains its energy and velocity, and witha drift of 5mph the wind is negligible even if I am 1-2 clicks off, I"m still going to hit my deer easily in the vital zone of 10" You dont even seem to have a clue as to ballistics is what I"m thinking, so you will never know whats possible and whats not with different calibers and bullets.

 

[CamoWildcat]

I'm finished trying to reason with you, Know-It-All. I guarantee that sooner or later, probably sooner, you will just wound a nice game animal and it will die a slow miserable death. I won't be wasting my time replying to any more of your self gratifying dribble.

 

[remingtonman_25_06]

Good because I'm tired of explaing the way I do things and why I am good at what I do. Know it all.

 

[JD338]

Camowildcat,

You have no way of knowing what the wind is doing 500 yards away. As far as high BC bullets bucking the wind - 30 cal 165 grain .477 BC bullet leaving the muzzle at 3200 FPS drifts 16.6" at 500 yards in a 10 mph crossing wind. 16.6" If you get it HALF right, you end up with a gut shot animal dying a miserable death. [/quote]


Actually, if you know how to obtain the information, you can make long range shots with amazing accuracy.
Your example above with .308 165 gr .477BC at 3200 fps would yeild the following results at 1000 ft evelation with a 10 MPH wind at 90 degrees.

500 yds 1873.5 fpe 15.8" wind drift

800 yds 1170.7 fpe 45.1" wind drift

975 yds 875.4 fpe 71.8" wind drift

If you understand the dynamics involved in shooting long range, have top quality equipment (rifle, ammunition, optics, laser range finder), practice, practice, and more practice, you will gain confidence in both your equipment and yourself to make long range shots.

I realize that there are variables that can have an effect on the shot such as variable winds, the animal moving, etc. but this is hunting. No different that the fair weathered hunter that buys 2 boxes of factory ammo, one to sight in his rifle at the bench and the other to hunt with. This guy has no idea what his load will do at 300 yds and takes a rest on a big rock and shoots at 425 yds. How about the guy that empties his gun on a running animal? Most likely he didn't practice those shot conditions.

Most Long Range Hunters are very dedicated to their sport. Only if the conditions are perfect, they will "send it".

JD338

[/quote]

 

[chet]

very well put JD

 

[moreloader]

I have 3 dead dear that would argue with some of these statements 165gBT's with a velocity of 3200 out of a 300 WSM. Deer shot at 15-275 yards all with one shot, and all bucks between 165-185 dressed weight. All were clean passes with a half dollar exit whole at 15 yards, the other two about the size of a quarter. I will say that they all had many broken ribs. One was pinned through both shoulders at 180. I would never call anyone a lier but some of the statements I here about perfect hits in the shoulder having no results make me wonder. I guess it is just that sho-me state thing.

P.S. I will say that I am also the one that has never had a 243 fail. Come to think of it I have never seen bullet failure cause game to be lost. It has always been someone's hunter error. Then again I can only speak for about 30 head of whitetail

 

[djknkk]

Geez. I didnt mean to start a war here with my post.

 

[FOTIS]

Geez. I didnt mean to start a war here with my post.

It is a way of life for a select few on every forum. Do not feel bad!

If you wnat to start another one mention super long range hunting and or (my personal favorite) Match bullets for hunting---that is when POP loses it!!!! :evil: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

 

[djknkk]

Well, I did get a lot of great info from you guys on this subject. More than likely I will try and find an accurate load around 3000 fps, which is still smokin. I'll probably tinker around with 150, 165, and 180 BT's and see what shoots best in my gun. I will probably horse around with the new Accubonds too. I've got a lot of expirementing time come fall. Or maybe I will just say forget the Weatherby and drag out the old standby 257 Roberts!