Blueprinting a modern action

[35 Whelen]

I think I may have missed the boat on trueing up rifles ,off what the factorys are turning out nowadays ?
Though I can certainly understand the cconcept of squaring everything up, and the barrel being trued up
To the action, however I guess I missed something as it honestly seams silly when someone already has a Remington Sendero that shoots a 5 shot groups that is covered with a dime @ 100 yds?? That there is this concept floating around, that the gun can be improved upon to a new level of accuracy that would justify spending, a thousand dollars on it , to blueprint the action, and install a new custom barrel..............
If a gun was shooting a 2 1/2" group and blueprinting the action and a new barrel would garantee you a 1/4" group
Then I guess you would have to consider it............. I am thinking selling the gun and buying one that shoots a 3/4"
Group from the factory . That is probably 30% the cost of the custom deal, seams alot more dollar effective?
I just had a friend take a gun that shot 1MOA groups send it out for a new "beefyer" recoil lug on it, after they recieved it,They talked him into compleate tune up job, trueing reciever , rails, facing bolt, squaring up lugs, new barrel, etc......... it now shoots 3/4" groups ??? So I am sorta wondering how this theory, that factory guns are a huge compromise, in terms of accuracy, is still floating around? When so many times, we see folks posting 1/2"........3/8" groups on here all the time? From rifles that have never been touched, What could blueprinting & a custom barrel possibly do for them? :|
I recently installed a new Minox scope on a New Ruger American 243 rifle, they are considered a true entry level rifle, I think he paid 350 for it, he paid 150 for the scope, it tracked like a Niteforce, we both shot 3/4" groups with it
Using some hot handloads loaded for velocity, not accuracy................ so I am lost on this theory factory guns just dont cut the mustard? For short money I am thinking they cut it just fine.
I do realize its fun to have the best, and I appreaciate that. But to assume you gun is going to shoot miles better just because you spend a bunch of money trueing up a reciever, might be a bit over rated concept.......
Miles could be measured as 1/16" of an inch ?? :shock:
The one time I would recomend it is after someone else pays to have the gun done, then decides to move on and is selling it for the same price as a regular factory gun is going for used! Now thats a whole different kettle of fish!

 

[Thebear_78]

I think your right there is definately a point of dimising returns on custom work to modern rifles. We are producing some of the most accurate rifles ever made with todays CNC machining. A lot of the “budget” guns would shoot circles around match rifle of the past.

That said there is something to be said for a trued and sleeved or custom action. They defineately feel higher quality when compared with a standard factory rifle. Is it worth the price? Well that just depends on who you ask. I have a full custom 308 complete with custom action, premium barrel, optimum glass and every available option. It cost more than my first two cars combined but it flat out shoots better than nything i have ever had before. Does a rifle need to shoot 5 shot 1/4” groups, maybe not but its sure fun when they do!!

 

[nvbroncrider]

Try thousandths of an inch. It's all what you think is value. I have one factory gun that will consistently shoot sub- .1" groups. I'm not touching it until the barrel goes. There's just so many variables. By blue printing your just eliminating one more. 20 years ago if you shot 1.5-2" groups it was considered great. Today that's not even considered accurate. It's all in the eye of the beholder.

 

[DrMike]

Modern rifles produced with CNC technology achieve accuracy unimagined even a few years ago. Within the true rifle crank if the idea that the accuracy can be improved. In their mind, a few thousandths of an inch justify the expenditure of moneys. Few people shoot well enough to take advantage of the increased accuracy they demand. I have shot many custom rifles that produced honest 0.1-0.2 inch groups (and I'm not a great shot), though the owners could never get the same rifle/load combinations to produce any better than 0.5 inch groups from the bench. Most of my rifles (and most are standard factory rifles) shoot far better than I can. They are, for the most part, hunting rifles, and they need not be tweaked as they all produce sub-MOA groups. Just my take.

 

[Thebear_78]

Almost none of my rifles are stock. They have all been tweaked or wrenched on


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[wildgene]

...kinda depends on what 'game' you're shooting. I own a number of factory rifles that will consistently shoot 3/4-1/2MOA groups @ 200yds., but if your 'game' is a 3/8" dot @200-300yds. & winners & losers are determined by a 100th or even 1000th of an inch, then anything you can do to gain a few thousandths becomes justified...

 

[IdahoCTD]

Truing a action typically adds very little to the accuracy. It can add to the consistency but the accuracy is less than .1" in my opinion and it's probably closer to .050". The barrel is by far the most important component to accuracy. I'd put the barrel and chamber job up near 90-95% of the accuracy of the gun. That is assuming there isn't problems with bedding. I know how some people chamber guns, me shaking my head in disbelief, and they still get pretty amazing results. CNC equipment or not factory actions aren't square. Remington's still have saw marks on the front of their actions and they still tap them rather than single point thread them or thread mill them. Most Remington action faces take around .003" to square them up and about that for the bolt lug recesses. In reality I think the barrels are what we see getting better on factory guns. CNC equipment makes more consistent rifling and that translates into more consistently accurate rifles. Many factory guns are using button rifled barrels now days, like Savage, and I think their average accuracy has improved with the technology.

 

[JD338]

The barrel is the most important part of an accurate rifle. A trued action and a larger recoil lug
will help with consistency. And don't overlook quality optics to pull it all together.

JD338

 

[Anonymous]

I believe in today's CNC powered world, the services like "truing actions" are going the way of the dodo. I years gone by it just wasn't unusual to get rifles that were seriously out of whack from a factory- the product of a Monday morning hangover or a Fri afternoon daydream. No more- the computer neither knows nor cares what time of day or day of week it is and the operator has few decisions to make other than loading the billet and pressing 'GO'.

The extra dollars for custom guns were for extra attention to detail and years of experience from the machinist.

I'm old enough to remember when a true 1" rifle out of the box was something of a rarity, 3" was considered OK and sometimes 4 or 5" wasn't unusual. I've seen enough new rifles that shoot sub MOA (I've got 5 now) that rather than paying someone to true an action, you could simply buy 3 or 4 Americans or XPRs or Savages and one of them is going to be a real shooter and you'll be many dollars ahead in the long run.

It's weird for me to say, but we are living in the salad days.

 

[35 Whelen]

CTD,
That analogy of the accuracy of any given rifle, with the barrel and chambering coming in at 90/95% sound like a darn good estimate in my mind, I think you covered it nicely kind sir!
Hodgeman ditto on what you just said.....

 

[Guy Miner]

Good stuff here. The times have changed...

I've only re-barreled a rifle, when the current barrel was DONE, as far as my accuracy requirements go at least.

I'm one of those guys who is quite satisfied with 100 yard 3/4" - 1" groups from what I think of as a "general purpose" hunting rifle. Something I'd use out to 300 yards and a bit more.

For a varmint rifle, long-range rifle, or match rifle... No, I want all I can get.

Guy

 

[35 Whelen]

Guy,
We are in the same camp when it comes to accurate guns,
I would rather be out hunting on the hill with a gun that only
Shoots a 1.5" group, than hanging around the coffee shop eating dougnuts blowing about a gun that shoots tiny groups! But that's just me...
..

 

[Thebear_78]

There is no reason to not be sitting on a hill with a rifle that shoots tiny groups!!


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[35 Whelen]

LoL, I hear ya Bear............... I guess my point was just that if a factory gun like Mike suggests is capable of shooting better than I can, then $1000 custom tune ups and $400 fiberglass stocks seam like a bit of overkill when the factory barrel to receiver alignment and plastic stock is already approaching a half inch group.
But that's just my 2CW...........

 

[Thebear_78]

Careful you don't say stuff like that too loudly. My wife might hear all that common sense you speaking and demand to know why I spend so much on my rifles!!!!

My only saving grace is common sense arguments have never had any effect on her in the past so I'm pretty sure I'm in the clear. [emoji14]


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[sask boy]

Interesting post it is hard to argue with such logic :mrgreen:. I agree with all of you but it was so much fun researching all the specs & then to have my 2 rifles built to those specs & now both shoot so well.
I may have a Remington left hand LA for 275.00 with a custom barrel & stock I hope that it would not have 1500.00 into it & that is cheaper than a Sako :mrgreen: and it is something I have had a hand in :wink:.

Blessings,
Dan

 

[Anonymous]

I think there are a lot of great reasons to go custom. Accuracy just isn't one of them though.

I'm planning one now, it shoots just fine just like it is but I'd like fit, finish and a really nice stock. Something very confidence inspiring in a really well made rifle.

 

[35 Whelen]

Hodgy,
I think you just hit the nail straight on the head, well put,

Danny ,
There is nothing like being totally satisfied with a compleated project!

Bear78,
Your starting to scare me when you talk like that ! Lol

 

[30-338]

I started years ago having rifles rebarreled changing stocks and some rifles I have are on their 4/5th barrel. When I first started most gunsmith throw in basic squaring action for nothing for the barrel work.

Action work is one time cost and today's prices you can be equal to custom action. When I started shooting BR it was with sleeved X-P action later I moved to Hall and Kelby actions and they had more option but they didn't shoot any better.

I just as soon take rifle I have little history with and use that for a project. Accuracy is more than just one group and it take good gunsmith and barrel.

 

[BretN]

There's no doubt modern CNC equipment produces some very accurate guns, at all price ranges. The bargain guns might not be much to look at, but most of them shoot very well. My newest gun is a 783 in 308. I'm having a blast developing different loads for it and finding it's not picky, easily finding sub MOA loads and some under 1/2" at 100 yds. For my purposes, that's good enough.

But the CNC work has also made the standard 70, 700 etc rifles more like custom or semi custom rifles of not too long ago. Modern wood to metal fit is outstanding. Not to mention we have better powders and bullets now. Salad days indeed.