Bore Cleaning! : More harm than good?

[roysclockgun]

The older I become and the more that I learn, regarding firearms, the less I seem to understand. I began cleaning rifle bores in the 1950s, when after a day of groundhog shooting in Maryland, I would pull the bolt on my uncles Mod. 70, 220Swift and my Dad's Rem. .222 cal., and runs two or three patches, soaked with Hoppes #9, through the barrels, followed by three or four dry patches and then one more with gun oil. After several years of shooting groundhogs, I did not observe any drop off in accuracy, in either rifle!

Fast forward to the late 1960s, when I began to hunt on my own and gather my own battery of rifles. I then learned that it took a couple of days to get all the fouling, copper and/or lead, out of the bore. These days, I run a patch soaked in Butch's Bore Shine through and as soon as it exits the muzzle, I pull off the patch. The second patch with Bore Shine gets 10 pass throughs, followed by a two minute wait, then dry patches, until they no longer are picking up anything noticeable. Then, regular Hoppes #9 with two or three patches, then leave the rifle over night. I always have the rifle in a cradle, with the muzzle slightly down to run off excess solvent. Generally after four nights, the green no longer shows on the patch. If I am going to shoot within a day or two, I dry the bore and leave it dry. Three "fouling shots" restores zero. If the rifle is to be stored, I coat it with Break Free. I do not use the slotted patch holders, but only plastic brushes, wrapped with 100% cotton patches. I always use a rod guide in the breach end. I only use Dewey rods and wipe them with a clean rag after each patch is changed. On M1 Rifles, I use a 7x57 cartridge with the base cut off, and the throat stuck into the muzzle of the M1 Rifle barrel, to protect the crown.

What am I doing wrong? In old age, maybe I am just paranoid? What am I doing right?
Best,
Steven in DeLand

 

[Guest]

Steven, I don't think you're doing anything wrong. I do think you're taking the long way home, though, so to speak. Get yourself a bottle of BoreTech Eliminator an just follow the instructions inthe bottle, using your good rods and guides. Go ahead and get some zinc plated jags as well, if you want. You'll find cleaning to take less than an hour, generally, and the longer you use this regimen, the more seasoned your barrels will become.

Beyond that, keeping a barrel clean is about long life as much as accuracy, really. I generally clean my rifles every 20-30rds regardless of accuracy. I don't clean mid-season, though.

 

[Anonymous]

I think this is one issue where the OCD among us really come out...

I just clean the rifle...not obsess about it. Do I get every last micron of copper out? No. Do I remove every last trace of powder fouling? Not even close.

Do I clean one well enough that I don't damage a bore or lose accuracy? Of course I do, and it doesn't take all day to get there.

I'm not saying some folks cleaning regimens aren't useful, or maybe they squeeze a few more rounds down the tube before rebarreling, maybe they get a little better accuracy than I do. I am saying that the return on the time investment just isn't worth it to me. I'd rather be hunting or shooting or something other than obsessing about the barrel of my rifle.

Just my $.02

 

[BK]

I think this is one issue where the OCD among us really come out...

Hey, you pointing that at me?

I will admit to being a bit (!) obsessive about cleaning... partially because I can't get away to shoot that much when I am home, but I can sneak out to the garage to clean guns.

I will say that I'm more worried about my rifles chambered in fire-breathing rounds, like my .300 RUM, .257 Weatherby and .220 Swifts than I am of my 7-08, .30-06s, .358 Winchester, and .35 Whelen.

 

[roysclockgun]

I suppose that if spending 5 minutes a day over the four day period is obsessive, then I am guilty. I have always believed that if the lead and/or copper is not taken out, accuracy will suffer and I like accuracy. I never have worried about barrel replacement, in part, because before I have burned out a barrel, I have sent the rifle down the road! So, yeah, I am obsessive over trying to wring the best accuracy out of most of the rifles that I own, or take care of for the wife. This year's Christmas gift to her of a new rifle, worked out so well, I may give her another rifle next Christmas!
Happy New Year!
Steven

 

[Guest]

Steven, I can't emphasize more strongly that if you'd like to achieve your stated goal, the very best way (and the easiest, oddly enough) is to get some BTE and follow the directions on the bottle. I'm amazed at what came out of barrels after other "good" solvents were done and patches were coming out sterling white. A BTE soaked patch through on a zinc jag gave me immediate blue, and letting it soak 5-10min, gave me a ton of blue patches, and even some additional layers of carbon as well.

 

[Guy Miner]

Steven - I think you're doing fine.

I'm not as obsessive about bore cleaning as in the past. Typically anymore I'll use Wipe Out/Patch Out - giving each rifle a few minutes to soak. Usually I give 'em a quick clean after each range session.

The only big fouling problem I've had in recent years was when I was trying to run the soft copper Barnes TSX at high velocity through a fairly rough .25-06 Remington factory barrel. This left a LOT of copper in the bore and I had to clean every 15 - 20 rounds to maintain accuracy.

The Krieger-barreled .308 doesn't get a lot of cleaning, because it doesn't foul much. I run a couple of patches through it now and again and it comes out real nice. That one typically gets put away after three fouling shots anyway - just part of my little ritual to make sure the cold bore shot is always on with that rifle. The few times when it hasn't been on, it's been shooter error for sure.

Living on the dry side of the Cascades, we rarely get any humidity, so rust isn't normally an issue. I'll typically store my rifles with dry bores.

 

[jmad_81]

I used to clean all the time. Got tired of doing it all the time, and now only do it when accuracy drops off or when I'm starting some new load development. My savage .243 win has over 100 rounds down the barrel. Went out lastnight to get some 55 BT yote loads dialed in and the first two shots went into the same hole. I don't shoot the barrels to hot, so as long as they are shooting really good I don't bother messing with it. I do work pretty hard during the break in period to keep things clean. Once things get smoothed out all seems to stay cleaner longer than non broke in barrels.

I use Butch's Bore Shine, or Shooter's Choice to start with. then I hit it with some CR-10. If I don't need the rifle that day, Wipe-Out does work very well!

 

[SJB358]

Steven, I don't think you're doing anything wrong. I do think you're taking the long way home, though, so to speak. Get yourself a bottle of BoreTech Eliminator an just follow the instructions inthe bottle, using your good rods and guides. Go ahead and get some zinc plated jags as well, if you want. You'll find cleaning to take less than an hour, generally, and the longer you use this regimen, the more seasoned your barrels will become.

Beyond that, keeping a barrel clean is about long life as much as accuracy, really. I generally clean my rifles every 20-30rds regardless of accuracy. I don't clean mid-season, though.

I am starting to think Dubyam is on to something. I have just started using Bore Tech Eliminator. Great stuff, doesn't stink to high heaven and pulls alot of crap outta the bores. I am beginning to be a big fan of the stuff. I clean after every range sessions, usually ends up being 20-30 rounds, depending on the rifle. While a rifle is new, it'll get a little bit of Iosso and Kroil on a patch to smooth the bore out some. That combo will pull alot of crap outta the rifle and really get it back down to bare metal quickly.

I always store every rifle with some Gunzilla oil in the bore. Rifles used for hunting get a fouling shot or two and they stay that way till I am done with them. Scotty

 

[DrMike]

I like to clean at the range before loading my rifles. That way, they are ready for the safe when I get home and Mama doesn't complain about the odour.

 

[300WSM]

I don't see how any harm could be done by cleaning too much. Not cleaning enough would be bad. At which point you could wind up having copper/powder/lead almost embed itself inside the barrel. In which case if you aren't using solvent strong enough it would become so hard to remove. Moreover a patch alone would never remove everything if cleaning wasnt done often.

Accuracy? Well some rifles are pickier than others. I had a 7mm-08 that would start to walk on the target on the 18th round and beyond. Not bad enough it couldn't make a lethal shot, but noticable. 1-17 would become one giant hole on the target. 18 would stray and so on.
But other platforms 30 rounds or a few more would go before any real change.

As far as your routine...to each their own. If you have the time to do that and it makes you feel warm and fuzzy about the barrel and accuracy.....clean on!!!

My method takes about 5 mins and consists of the following things
shooters choice
brush (bronze or nylon)
some patches

That is it
How I use those items is the key :wink:

 

[cloverleaf]

dubyam- BTE? Is this a Montana product? I did a little looking and cant find it. Have you tried WIPE OUT? It is my personal favorite and wonder how it compares? Thanks CL

PS OOPS Bore Tech Eliminator- that I can find. Still experience VS wipe out would be appreciated. CL

 

[Win_94]

Over-cleaning can cause excessive wear, under-cleaning/improper cleaning can cause pitting and/or fouling build-up.


I have a US Model of 1917 Eddystone; I assume and when it was used previously, it was used with corrosive ammo.

I have been trying to smooth the bore out over a period of time by shooting and cleaning much like a barrel break-in procedure.
I usually take one shot a day, and with that rifle I would clean it after every shot. I did that for about 1.5 years. Here are the results.

I don't clean it as much nowadays, because it shoots well enough, (my best group was shot with this rifle.) Actually, all my rifles are dirty now. I' will clean them when they get rained on, or once every 40 or more shots; not because the cold-bore POI will deviate from the fouled bore POI, but because a bullet traveling down a perfectly clean bore causes more wear then when fouled. (A break-in procedure would not smooth a bore, if that wasn't true.)
All my loads now have the same POI whether a cold-bore or fouled, I've found that the deviation is load specific, (at least with my rifles,) not rifle specific.

With my Win_94 I was told that a bronze brush would damage my bore, so 25 years of insufficient cleaning caused a ring of carbon near the throat. Here is a pic after I removed it.

The ring is from where the bore did not wear since there was carbon adhered to it. I did a break-in procedure with it to try and remove the ring.

It is still there but greatly reduced; now the bore doesn't copper foul at all.

I have 2 rifles that don't copper foul because of a break-in procedure.

Sorry for the long-winded response, but I thought it could be of use.

 

[Too Tall]

How you get them pictures? I like them.

 

[SJB358]

Very cool pictures! I like them as well.

Man, what kind of cranks are we to oogle over pictures of rifling! Man, no wonder our better halves think were nutty! Scotty

 

[Guest]

CL, I've never used Wipeout, but that's just about the only solvent I haven't used. I can tell you that BTE gets Cooper out that foams, abrasives, and ammonia based cleaners leave behind. I've tested it to see. And, I've cleaned with BTE first, and did not get anything out with the other solvents. If you can grab 4oz, try it. If you don't like it, I'll buy it from you!

 

[Win_94]

How you get them pictures? I like them.

I used my cannon Power Shot. With the bolt actions I removed the bolt, positioned the camera as close to the chamber as possible, then used the Macro setting on full zoom. There is a flashlight at the muzzle end of the barrel to illuminate the bore.

With the lever action it is the same set-up but instead of removing the bolt I use a mirror to get the proper angle.

The hardest part is getting the focus right on the "Auto" setting.

I use that camera for those close-ups, to my long distance shooting videos, (through a spotting scope,) it just takes a little practice.

Thanks!

 

[cooker300]

this might sound dumb but i just use remingtion 40x bore cleaner and follow the directions on the bottle then when finished a good gun oil on a clean patch