Copper fouling

[bdbrown66]

Let's stir the pot a bit. What say you?

 

[jjs405]

I would agree for the most part ... when I am breaking in a barrel I clean it more rigorously than after the break-in to remove all the copper fouling. After that, no. As a matter of fact, when I use to clean very well I would fire a fouling shot so that I do not have to deal with the first clean/cold bore shot being off.

Just my 2 cents

 

[SJB358]

While I don’t prescribe to all his stuff I do watch his videos now and again. I enjoy seeing others viewpoints and way of doing things.

His bench is way to clean though, I don’t trust him

 

[Bruce Mc]

"A clear desk is a cluttered mind!"

 

[wvbuckbuster]

I agree with some of it. Why I leave my bore fouled after sighting in during hunting season, I guess. Then there's the thing of some rifles hit where sighted in from cold clean bore and others require a few fouling shots. So, my guess is it comes down to what the barrel likes. Just me.
Dan.

 

[bdbrown66]

I agree with some of it. Why I leave my bore fouled after sighting in during hunting season, I guess. Then there's the thing of some rifles hit where sighted in from cold clean bore and others require a few fouling shots. So, my guess is it comes down to what the barrel likes. Just me.
Dan.

Well, there's a difference between powder/carbon fouling and copper fouling. What he's saying is, clean the powder fouling and don't worry about the copper fouling.

And yes, I never clean my rifles until after the season is over, either. And when I shot smallbore competition in college, we never cleaned our rifles until the whole competition season was over, as well, before putting them away for storage.

 

[clearwater]

Best groups have been with a very clean barrel after one fouling shot except for cast loads where things tighten up at a dozen loads. I think lube in the barrel helps with those.

 

[walkinhorseman]

There is no universal rule of thumb for all barrels. They each have their own DNA. The shooter has to experiment with each one for its specific application. For F-Class barrels, I cleaned to base metal after each match. The morning of the match, I went to the range early and put foulers down range before the match. That barrel settled in on the third shot, when cold and clean.

For hunting rifles that must be swabbed at the end of each day because of hunting in rain, you need to test different bore conditions that give first shot precision on point of aim. Test different final bore conditions and believe the target. I clean all of my rifles to base metal and go from there. For hunting rifles, they went to camp clean, got sight verification and a cleaning with Hoppes, followed by a dry patch and the muzzle taped. After the season, they went back to base metal.

So the degree of precision required for a 99 Savage, 94 Winchester or 760 Remington is much less than expected from sub-moa custom bolt gun which dictates the care of the bore condition. I inherited my grandfathers Sav 99 which I know wasn't ever cleaned to base metal but killed its fair share of deer. I also have his 52B that I shot competitively. It was never cleaned for an entire shooting season but yielded many 10-X’s in my hand. I was taught to put three foulers into the backstop before the first sighter.

There is no right or wrong answer until you test on paper.

 

[SJB358]

"A clear desk is a cluttered mind!"

If that’s true my mind must be as clear as a bluebird day.

 

[RL338]

I tend to worry more about carbon build up versus copper.

 

[Bruce Mc]

If that’s true my mind must be as clear as a bluebird day.

Yep, mine is too.

 

[bdbrown66]

If that’s true my mind must be as clear as a bluebird day.

If a cluttered desk is the sign of a cluttered mind, then what's an empty desk a sign of?

 

[wvbuckbuster]

If a cluttered desk is the sign of a cluttered mind, then what's an empty desk a sign of?

Lost use of space.

 

[PJGunner]

I rarely watch his videos. In fact, I don't think I've ever agreed with anything he's said on the few I did see. I have a Winchester M70 Featherweight that I dearly love chambered to the 7x57 Mauser round. From a perfectly clean bore it shot beautifle groups. By the time I'd fired off 20 round bullets were hitting the target sideways and the bore looked like there were mini mountain ranges. Cleaning with copper removal stuff was usuay two to thee 8 hours days. Finally, is desperation I gave that barrel a serious firelapping session. then did the copper removal scene. It still fouls out a bit but at least not to the point that accuracy is bad or bullets keyhole. It cleans up quite nicely in a reasonable amount of time. To be perfectly blunt, his theory of copper filling the striations in the barrel making it smooth is not quite accurate. Maybe calling the fouling mountain range might be exaggeration, there were visible clumps sticking in the land and grooves. So, once again I fail to agree with that old gentleman. Just one man's opinion. Maybe I should have sent him that rifle to figure out what was going wrong. LOL.
Paul B.

 

[Wolfshead]

I’ve often thought of this, and I can only share my experiences in things of this nature, but I’m the farthest from being an “expert” on a lot of the discussions had here.
I (in my logic) just don’t understand how the difference in shooting a copper bullet, and a bullet wrapped in copper can have a difference in fouling.
Especially since the only thing contacting the barrel is copper.
Is it something in the difference of the metals? Is it the pressure against the rifling between the two types of “copper”?
Copper is going to contact the rifling either way so in my mind it shouldn’t different

 

[salmonchaser]

I had it drilled into my head clean after every trip to the range. I still tend to keep them clean. Generally I’ll start a load test with a clean bore firing two or three fouling shots at my steel plate.

 

[PJGunner]

I’ve often thought of this, and I can only share my experiences in things of this nature, but I’m the farthest from being an “expert” on a lot of the discussions had here.
I (in my logic) just don’t understand how the difference in shooting a copper bullet, and a bullet wrapped in copper can have a difference in fouling.
Especially since the only thing contacting the barrel is copper.
Is it something in the difference of the metals? Is it the pressure against the rifling between the two types of “copper”?
Copper is going to contact the rifling either way so in my mind it shouldn’t different

I think it's because of the difference in the metals. Most cup and core bullets use gilding metal which is predominantly copper with I believe zinc added as a hardener. I'm not even sure anyone is using strictly pure copper for a bullet jacket any more but there may be some. I think most monometal bullet are pure copper but I know some use a gilding metal alloy. The only monometal bullets I've used are the Barnes TSX in .25, 7MM and .35 Calibers with mixed results. I'm not sure that they're even pure copper of an allow of some sort. All I can add about those is they've never excessively fouled and of the bores in my rifle. Well, at least no real difference between them and regular cup and core bullets.
Paul B.

 

[TackDriver284]

After breaking it in with 15-20 shots on a new barrel, I clean it with Bore Tech Eliminator and run a bore scope, if I see heavy traces of copper I clean it with Bore Tech Copper Remover with a nylon brush only, no bronze brushes. Several passes with wet patches and till its just clean, then I start shooting normally after. No need to aggressively scrub it out. Smoother bores will not really show much copper as much as rough bores.
I don't clean my rifles as much as I used to, back in the days I would always bring my cleaning one piece rods and my cleaning set to the range. I would always clean the barrels each time I am arrive at the range. Cleaning barrels does more harm than shooting them.
Nowadays I clean my barrels maybe after 100 shots or when accuracy fades off. I don't see traces of copper in my barrels, just carbon and the dreaded carbon ring which is easily removed by using a bore mop soaked in the chamber and several twirls with a nylon brush in the carbon ring area of the chamber. I am always careful when I exit the jag at the muzzle, either carefully push it back in instead of pulling it in with the rod handle or unscrew the brush and screw it back on when you run the rod back in the chamber again.

 

[Ridge_Runner]

then why, after shooting for a season, then another, then another without cleaning why is the rifling green?