Copper?

[England]

It's looking more like in the not too distant future lead will be banned in the UK where I live.
So, with that in mind I switched to a European bullet made by Fox for my .243 (80 grain) and my lesser used .308 (130 grain)
Not happy with the results, they appear to pencil through, and the deer takes too long to die, and sometimes runs for too long, which is a problem as they can cross onto other properties.
So I am about to load some 80g Barnes TTSX in my Sako 75 .243

Any other suggestions or experiences would be very welcomed.

 

[noslerpartition]

Hi England!
I shoot lead-free for quite some time now.
I had good results with the fox, but 308 up.
If you want them to go down quickly and more like with a cup and core, I'd use fragmenting bullets.
For 30-06 it is the LOS HT, but I think it is not available in 6 mm. For 6,5 Creedmoor, the Lehigh. But that one does quite some damage.
There is one I did not test much: OK+.
It is similar to Lutz Möllers bullets who sadly died in a plane Crash. Though his views are discussable at some points.
My experience is that on smaller game, bullets that keep all their mass take a bit longer to kill. The bigger they get, the better they perform (the game, not the bullet).
The fox seems to open faster than the Barnes, so maybe you will not see much of an improvement there. I had a buck go 100 m with a perfect shot with 168 gr Barnes from a 30-06.

For the 308, take a look at the LOS HT in 140 gr. As said, the front fragments to act more like a lead bullet. If you can't get them over there, drop me a line and I will get them to you. Actually, I have a few here that I can send over for testing. All assuming you reload.
I use Lovex D073.6, which gives speeds the 30-06 did 20 years ago.
Reload Swiss would be another option

 

[jimbires]

the only all copper bullet I've shot is Barnes 7mm TSX . I did kill a few big game animals with them . my results resemble what you have found .I'm not enthused with mono bullets .

 

[noslerpartition]

If you want to go all the way, there are some bullets that replaced lead with tin.
They act basically like a cup-and-core.
Since they are way lighter, downrange performance lacks past say 200y.
If you go for Barnes etc, stay on the lower weight range. Speed kills with the monoswe have some years of experience, since state-owned Forrest banned lead a few years ago.


They do the job. If you know how

 

[England]

Hi England!
I shoot lead-free for quite some time now.
I had good results with the fox, but 308 up.
If you want them to go down quickly and more like with a cup and core, I'd use fragmenting bullets.
For 30-06 it is the LOS HT, but I think it is not available in 6 mm. For 6,5 Creedmoor, the Lehigh. But that one does quite some damage.
There is one I did not test much: OK+.
It is similar to Lutz Möllers bullets who sadly died in a plane Crash. Though his views are discussable at some points.
My experience is that on smaller game, bullets that keep all their mass take a bit longer to kill. The bigger they get, the better they perform (the game, not the bullet).
The fox seems to open faster than the Barnes, so maybe you will not see much of an improvement there. I had a buck go 100 m with a perfect shot with 168 gr Barnes from a 30-06.

For the 308, take a look at the LOS HT in 140 gr. As said, the front fragments to act more like a lead bullet. If you can't get them over there, drop me a line and I will get them to you. Actually, I have a few here that I can send over for testing. All assuming you reload.
I use Lovex D073.6, which gives speeds the 30-06 did 20 years ago.
Reload Swiss would be another option

Thanks for the information, very helpful, I will research the LOS HT
I use my .243 mainly as the .308 only comes out when it's nice weather
I do reload.
I hunt, Roe, Fallow and Red deer.
Thanks for the offer, thats really kind of you.

 

[noslerpartition]

Since we have to use at least 6,5 mm for anything bigger than roe, I use the Creedmoor and 30-06.
We have boar, so I don't want to be out with anything smaller than 6,5...
I load for a few friends and they are happy with 130 gr Barnes in 308, Los HT in 30-06 and 308. And Fox, too.
I killed roe, boar and fallow deer with the Los and the Lehigh.
They go down fast, but more damage than with the Barnes

 

[wvbuckbuster]

It's looking more like in the not too distant future lead will be banned in the UK where I live.
So, with that in mind I switched to a European bullet made by Fox for my .243 (80 grain) and my lesser used .308 (130 grain)
Not happy with the results, they appear to pencil through, and the deer takes too long to die, and sometimes runs for too long, which is a problem as they can cross onto other properties.
So I am about to load some 80g Barnes TTSX in my Sako 75 .243

Any other suggestions or experiences would be very welcomed.

I shot one whitetail doe with the Barnes 85gr TTX from a .243 Win at 212 yds. Broadside thru the shoulders, exit wound was the size of our dime. Did some damage to the lungs put didn't bleed until almost dropped after running about 60-70 yds. Killed the deer but wasn't impressed with the performance. Never used again. Dan.

 

[England]

Since we have to use at least 6,5 mm for anything bigger than roe, I use the Creedmoor and 30-06.
We have boar, so I don't want to be out with anything smaller than 6,5...
I load for a few friends and they are happy with 130 gr Barnes in 308, Los HT in 30-06 and 308. And Fox, too.
I killed roe, boar and fallow deer with the Los and the Lehigh.
They go down fast, but more damage than with the Barnes

Iv'e just got to use 11 of the Fox bullets then I will try the Barnes I loaded today.
Out on the fallow deer in a few hours.

Have you heard of Yew Tree Bullets?
They are supposed to be the dogs danglies of copper bullets.

 

[GeeZedTee]

Yew Tree bullets are made in England and, as he's still expanding the business, I'm pretty sure he doesn't export. They are hollow point boat tails turned on CNC lathes to a tolerance of 2 microns and on impact the front shreads into 3 bits with the remaining 'slug' holding about 80% of the mass. I use a 6.5x55 with a 20" barrel and propel the 112gr bullet at 2880fps, grouping at .5" or less at 100m . I've used them on Roe from 30m upto 185m. I deliberately aimed for lung (ran 25 -35m), shoulder and neck (predictably they dropped). To date I find the terminal performance very similar to lead but without the jellying of meat. If you look on "Stalking Directory" https://www.thestalkingdirectory.co.uk/ there is plenty of evidence of their performance. Most importantly, here in the South of England, they are readily available!

 

[noslerpartition]

There are quite a few designs now you can work with theses days.
First choice: pure deformator of fragmenting.
Since US supply is rather unsure, I switched to European producers where possible.
I personally like fragmenting bullets, but I found designs that are too much. Meat damage is severe if you don't hit just right. Well. Actually that's an US bullet...
Most deformators like TTSX, GMX, Fox, E-Tip, Naturalis, ... Work similar and the differences show at certain situations. Mostly on longer distances. Usually they they run a little longer as with cup and core. If you don't have a dog, that can be a problem.
Fragmenting bullets work more like cup and core. Some are light and fast, others at normal weight.
So I choose bullets depending on the results I want to have. Short runs ore less meat damage...

 

[misser]

i did take a deer with a hornady copper. the deer reacted immediately to flee .before it had gotten 30 yard i shot again. that one anchored it

 

[RL338]

I have great results with Barnes TTSXs on whitetails. 100gr - 257 WBY , 165gr - 300 WBY and 350gr - 416 WBY. They are my favorite hunting bullets.

 

[cloverleaf]

Been shooting Federal premium trophy coppers in my 12 ga. slug gun since they came out because they are the most accurate things I've found. Before that it was federal premium "barnes exspanders". Same reason, but not quite as accurate as the "trophy's". That said I have 1/2 a box of the old Barnes copper bullets in .257 (without the "relief rings") that I wont shoot due to SERIOUS copper fouling in my 250 Savage. I think the technology may have improved. 12ga slugs are all sabot's anyway so may not apply to the discussion, but they are accurate enough. Still, dont like the change. CL

 

[England]

No issue today, hit rib on way in.

 

[England]

Since posting this I have shot 2 red deer, as they were close to another private area I pinned them through the shoulders, they obviously dropped on the spot, then a quick follow up shot, Barnes worked well.

 

[PJGunner]

I did a little work with the barnes TSX bullets. The 100 gr. .257, 120 and 140 gr. in 7mm and the 225 gr. 358 bullets to be exact. No joy with the 100 gr. in the .245 Roberts and I haven't tried then in the 25-06 yet. The two 7MM bullets have not worked in three 7x57 rifle nor in the .280 Remington. I can get the speed in all those rifles but not the accuracy I desire. So far I have not even come close to my minimum standard which is a consistent 1.5" or less at 100 yards. I have quit trying but until components start showing up again I'm putting that work up on hold.
The big ray of sunshine came with the 225 gr. TSX in the .35 Whelen. Good speed (2710 FPS) and excellent accuracy. (.50 to .75" at 100 yards depending on how well I'm shooting) That load has account for six elk so far. No complaints there.
Edited to add: On the .257 Roberts, My son in law picked up his shortly before I found mine. Both are Winchester M70 Featherweights. He hadn't start reloading yet so I got the chore of working up a load for his rifle. He wanted the Barnes 100 gr. TSX so that's what we went with. Started with H4350 and hit nivana right off the bat. I won't give the load as it's a bit over max in all the books, especially the Barnes #4 manual. When I found my rifle I started with what worked for his, but no joy. Played with seating depth, no help there. Different primer, nope. Not enough bullets left to try something else and my LGS are completely out. FWIW, I haven't been able to get that particular .257 Bob to shoot anything yet but my Ruger #1 .257 Bob has been sub-MOA from the get go. Leaves me with a couple of choices; rebarrel or rebore to something else. I can't bring myself to pawn off a lemon to anyone else. I'll think of something.
Paul B.

 

[England]

Edited to add: On the .257 Roberts, My son in law picked up his shortly before I found mine. Both are Winchester M70 Featherweights. He hadn't start reloading yet so I got the chore of working up a load for his rifle. He wanted the Barnes 100 gr. TSX so that's what we went with. Started with H4350 and hit nivana right off the bat. I won't give the load as it's a bit over max in all the books, especially the Barnes #4 manual.
Paul B.

Interesting, I have the same with the Barnes TTSX 80grain, I used IMR4350, 3150FPS but the load is at the very top end, but it is superbly accurate

 

[England]

I was actually stalking 4 red hinds when this one popped out of the woods, double lung, dropped on the spot.
The blood is where I started to gralloch the deer.

 

[varmit]

I use the 80 grain Tipped TSX, which is TTSX works great on deer and very accurate. Lead is not prohibited in Canada but I don't want lead fragments in my meat.

 

[RiverRider]

Re: the Barnes 80-grain TTSX...

I tried this bullet in my 6mm-284 and got amazing accuracy and speed. I found a great load running just shy of 3600 fps. I don't doubt for an instant that it will open up, but I am wondering if it will be too destructive within 100 yards.

Any insight on this?