Does this piss you off? It does me.

[PJGunner]

MUST WATCH !!! GM cars - You are not going to like this. :x :x :x :x
Paul B.

Thanks to America's taxpayers, GM and Chrysler were 'saved' with an $80 billion bailout… and this is what we get in return???


http://www.youtube.com/watch_popup?v=Lvl5Gan69Wo

 

[DrMike]

I saw this sometime back. I determined that because the government stiffed the bond holders (many being retirees or holding these favoured corporate bonds in their retirement funds) in favour of the unions, that I was finished with GM products. In Canada, Chrysler made threats to the government consisting of "If you don't advance billions to us, we'll leave Canada." Neither gets me vote any more.

 

[JD338]

I am with Mike, I am going to become a Ford fan big time!

JD338

 

[gerry]

I'm not sure what I'll do when it comes time to replace my GMC truck in a few years, I'm pretty sure I won't buy another even though it's been a great truck. Are Ford and Toyota really any better, or are they all crooked?

 

[Oldtrader3]

Ford is run by an ex-Boeing Aircraft Division President who quit when he was passed over for the job that the CEO (his boss) of Boeing had been fired from, for lying about his mistress and his expense account. This man (Mulcahy) went to Ford (replacing William Ford) as CEO and has cleaned house at Ford and made them into a better company with higher quality in thier products.

GM has always been run by marketing people and never has embraced the quality culture. The Japanese eroded GM's market share from 50%+ in 1964 to nothing (0%) when they went into Chapter 7 Liquidation. That culture is, in part, why they failed and went bankrupt. GM did not care about shareholders, only unions. Management's old shares were converted to new shares of stock, unlike their shareholders.

 

[JD338]

Spot on Charlie.

I think I am going to replace my GMC 2500 HD with a F250 Super Duty. I have never owned a Jap car and never will. I want the profit dollars to stay in the USA.

JD338

 

[gerry]

Thanks Charlie for the information, I have been a GMC fan but I do not like what they are doing these days, I don't want to support evil people. Since we won't be upgrading any vehicles for a few years I'll have time to warm up to Ford

 

[Oldtrader3]

Gerry, I always buy 4WD and always try to buy made in North America. I must admit though that I owned a Toyota Land Cruiser back in the 1980's. Other than that, I have had one GMC V-8 (wheel bearing, and U-joint eating junk) and Ford's. Lot of folks on here have Dodge trucks as well.

 

[gerry]

Gerry, I always buy 4WD and always try to buy made in North America. I must admit though that I owned a Toyota Land Cruiser back in the 1980's. Other than that, I have had one GMC V-8 (wheel being, and U-joint eating junk) and Ford's. Lot of folks on here have Dodge trucks as well.

Not a big fan of the Dodge, in theory a Dakota might be the pefect vehicle for me but it's hard to warm up to them. Around here a 4X4 is almost a must especially in winter with the heavy snow besides some good fishing and hunting spots require 4WD to get in

 

[Oldtrader3]

Gerry, our company competed head to head with the Japanese (medical devices) and I got tired of being told by their business people people (while in Japan) that we (Americans) were inferior to the Japanese culturally and in self discipline. After listening to this nonsense for 20 years while working within Asian culture, I decided that I will always use American products, if I have a choice. Besides, we started beating them at what they thought was their own game in the 1990's in many industries.

After all we invented most of the engineering systems and technology that they were employing and readily gave these technologies to them after the war. Remembering also that Japan was still a feudal society until 1945. The Japanese and their Gai Jin attitude about us really convinced me to buy American. We are still the most efficient manufacturing country in the world despite our executives sending our jobs overseas.

 

[SJB358]

I am a Dodge guy, and hate to think about the selling out they did. My Dad is a Ford guy through and through, but his Fords have spent a whole lot more time getting repaired and maintained than my Dodge CTD. I like all the trucks to be honest, but until Ford proves their new diesel will stand up mileage wise, I am still a little leery of them.. I don't like how they keep changing up their engines, but they are great trucks, no doubt.

My truck only has a 140K on it, so I have some time to decide.

 

[Oldtrader3]

Scotty, My kids have Dodge Diesels but I still like gas trucks. I have an old Ford Explorer now (1999) with 92K miles on it. The only thing that I have ever changed was a timing belt in 13 years.

 

[338winmag]

It's not just a particular car manufacturer. Its america's corporations (period).

Unfortunately, because these big corps have big lawyers, those that see the same atrocities for the companies they work for, they cannot make comments on the internet or they will suffer retribution.

..but it is not just some companies. Its most if not all and the politians are right there in the hip pocket. The greed is out of control beyond any one of our wildest dreams. We are just more able to see such things now, in these days.

"sigh"

 

[Guest]

I'm no fan of GM or Dodge post-bailout. In my opinion, the companies should have been allowed to fail, and subsequently either been removed from the marketplace (in deference to better competitors who are able to produce and sell vehicles people want at a profit for the company) or reorganized with a business model that would make them competitive. There is no such thing as "too big to fail" in my world view. Ask the British Empire and they'll agree.

Now, that said, the Chinese press conference excerpts must be taken with the understanding that when doing business in China (fully 1/5th of the world's population and thus a key market for any global company) one must make certain kinds of statements to appease the communist government. It's the nature of the beast.

My opinion is, buy what is the best value, and works the best for what you need. I can tell you from experience that is not a GM vehicle (had several as company cars and all of them had plenty of issues), nor is it Chrysler (again, between the company cars and the one Dodge truck I've owned, I had literally months of shoptime from them). My Ford trucks (now standing at a total of six over the last 25yrs) have spent less than two weeks, total, in the shop for repairs. And that's with an excess of 300,000mi under my foot (or my wife's). In fact, her Expedition is right now about to have it's second non-scheduled maintenance trip, at 120k. I can't complain about that at all. Heck, my Dodge had it's second unscheduled maintenance trip before it reached 12k - for a new rearend, after getting new seat covers at 8k! There's just no excuse for the lack of quality in vehicles in today's engineering and Lean/Six Sigma manufacturing environment.

Right now, I drive a Nissan Titan. I'd feel bad for the profits going to Japan, except that Nissan employs folks in TN and MS (where my truck was built) and those folks are my neighbors. And, I dare say, GM doesn't keep it's profits here at home, either. Nor does Chrysler, or Ford, for that matter, as much as I love Fords. So far I can't complain about my Titan, and I've put some miles on it. On track for nearly 20k in the first year, if I hadn't recently started working from home. Now it looks like maybe 16k or so. That's a plus, for sure, at 14mpg and $3.50 per gallon...

 

[257 Ackley]

I went from a 2010 FX4 Ford to a 2011 Z71 Chevy about 9 months ago. I wish I had not done that now. With parts and assembly of most vehicles taking place on a global level, it is difficult to say who is putting the dollars in their pockets any more. Look at how many plants have been built in this country over the past few years that are helping local economies.

The biggest problem I see with the "big 3" manufacturers that still exist is the way the unions have them bent over on benefits they pay to retirees and the compensation packages they give their top management. Having spent 28 years in corporate America and seeing the way decisions are influenced by return on investment to the stockholder and bean counters that only look at bottom line, I don't like or trust any of them. One of the biggest reasons why I left in the prime of my earning years and started my own company.

 

[DrMike]

And now, after extracting billions of dollars from Canadian taxpayers, GM announces that it is closing one of the two remaining assembly plants in Oshawa, Ontario. Yeah, they are as good as their word.

http://www.ctv.ca/CTVNews/Canada/20120601/gm-oshawa-plant-closures-120601/

 

[Oldtrader3]

That is a shame, sorry to hear that about the Oshawa Plant of GM.

 

[tddeangelo]

Dubyam,

My Toyota was built in California. So was my wife's Toyota. My Nissan Frontier before that was made in, I believe, Tennessee.

I agree with your sentiment that while the corporations are not US companies, the employees paid to build the vehicles are Americans. Most accounts seem to show that they are well-compensated and enjoy working for the Japanese auto companies, as well.

My MIL and I got in this discussion once. Her Dodge minivan, at the time was about 20% assembled in the US. I asked her... "so who really 'bought American'...you or me?" Her answer was that she did because she had a Dodge. Didn't matter where it was made, it was a Dodge.

 

[CatskillCrawler]

The UAW kept GM from transferring laid-off workers from one of its most productive assembly lines, Moraine, Ohio, because they were not union members. They could be re-hired at other plants but only at entry-level salaries and positions and would be rated lower than any union "recommended" applicants.

So here's a plant whose workers gave in to demands to cut their benefits to help keep the company above water, produced their product at above normal rates and quality standards. What does GM do? Reward them with pink-slips. Meanwhile, the Lordstown, Ohio plant, long known as having terrible labor relations and was never a money-making operation due to inefficiencies and quality issues has every UAW worker re-hired and is given one of Chevy's best lines, the Cruze, to manufacture. Shenanigans.

I have no problem driving a Toyota Tundra or Tacoma. Body, engine and transmission are all built in the USA and assembled in San Antonio in a non-union plant. Change the oil regularly and throw a timing belt in every 100,000 miles and there's no reason why you won't have to change three timing belts. YMMV.

 

[Guest]

Catskill, the motor for that Tundra is made right here in Huntsville, AL. My neighbors thank you for keeping them busy!

I suspect the reason the non-union plant was shuttered and the union plant was kept open has everything to do with some asinine union contract and Union ownership of a certain portion of GM (thanks to our illustrious leader) as anything else. That's the amazing thing. Unions set up contracts to benefit the union bosses and to prevent the firing of anyone for anything short of violent felony behavior on the job. Years ago, when I first moved to Huntsville, I worked as a tire changer and shop gopher at the Dunlop Tire Test Track. This was back when Sumitomo Robber Co. of Japan owned Dunlop. The Huntsville plant had, to my knowledge, never had a single year where production and cost containment goals were met. Maybe many years before I got there, but at least for the decade prior, not a single year had the union kept its side of the bargain in terms of contract. And yet, whenever management talked about scaling back benefits because of losses, the Union went on strike. One time, they nearly killed some folks who were crossing the picket lines. At least one guy is permanently brain damaged and in a wheelchair because of it. And, nobody was ever prosecuted, because they couldn't ID the guilty parties. Anyway, while I'm there, earning about half of the starting wage of Union employees, because the test track was separate from the plant, and non-union (mostly engineers and such), the union went on strike when management asked for them to meet their end of the bargain. So I was out of work (without pay, because I was only on the job for about five weeks prior to this) for about a week while the union picketed. Oh, and I had to get a police escort to get my truck out of the parking lot at the test track. Things being what they were, that almost made me miss my rent that month. I found another job not too long after that, and was not surprised when Sumitomo sold Dunlop to Goodyear a couple of years later. I was equally un-surprised when Goodyear closed the plant at the end of the existing contract. Over 1200 people with good paying jobs found themselves out of work. I found it hard to be sympathetic, in many respects, when I saw some of the same folks who had threatened me (to the point of getting police escort just to leave) on the news bemoaning their job loss, and asking where they were going to find another "good job" like that. Of course, I kept thinking they shouldn't have continually bitten the hand that fed their lazy, shiftless, good for nothing arses.

A job is not a right nor an entitlement. It's not "my job" either. It's my company's job, and they're kind enough to let me fill it, for as long as I'm useful and making them money. It's my job to be sure I make enough money to be considered indispensable.

Sorry for the rant. It's a shame what's happened to the once proud traditions of union labor. There was a time when being "union made" meant quality and value. Now it just means the company is in trouble if they can't figure out a way to get out from under the burden of union costs.