Elk rifle

[kiddekop]

I've read countless articles on all of the big bore rifles for game worldwide but the 100 year old 30-06 has a better kill record than anything devised to date.It has been used to kill every species of big game around the world and hundreds of thousands soldiers in the world wars and conflicts.Nothing has changed it's still effective with big game dead is dead.

 

[Jeff Olsen]

I've read countless articles on all of the big bore rifles for game worldwide but the 100 year old 30-06 has a better kill record than anything devised to date.It has been used to kill every species of big game around the world and hundreds of thousands soldiers in the world wars and conflicts.Nothing has changed it's still effective with big game dead is dead.

I've only shot deer with mine, but both of them fell on the spot. One was my very first buck and it freaked me out; I fired, after an excruciatingly long time waiting for the right shot (it took so long I'd actually STOPPED shaking by the time I shot <g>!)... anyway, I fired, he dissapeared and I was there working the bolt like a madman because everything I'd read or heard said you had to be ready to shoot 'em again... but that 150-gn Core-lokt put him down on the spot.

My feeling on 30-06 is that it's a bit of too much rifle for the deer I hunt and how and where I hunt them, so I stepped down to 7mm-08 for a while with good success, then had that rifle rebarreled to .358 Winchester which is perfection for the task. But I am hunting blacktail in Oregon so the deer are medium-sized or smaller, and the ranges tend to be 100 yards on in.

Conversly, I personally feel that '06 is a little lighter than ideal for hunting a bull elk tag. It'll certainly work but I think where '06 really shines is on animals in the 250-450 pound range, like spike and cow elk, caribou, black bear, etc... for a bull elk tag in my area I'd like a little more gun, but if all I had was my 30-06 I'd lace up my boots and go hunting, that's for certain! But I think you lose some of the more severe shot angles compared to say a 338 WM, unless you go all the way to a 200 or 220-gn bullet in the '06 at which point you start to really compromise your "reach".

But I will always be a 30-06 fan! When I shot out my first '06 barrel, I just had it redone to good ol' 30-06 again. When I wanted to get my younger brother set up for hunting with me (he's putting himself through college at age 36 and is poor) I bought him a beater Marlin 30-30 and the cheapest Remington Model 700 in.... you got it, 30-06! And he can carry that '06 anywhere, and for any game, that he will be hunting.

Of course, using the right bullet is very important... I won't hunt with 150's in mine any more- too much velocity for up close and not the best choice for longer range, either.

-jeff

 

[Greg Nolan]

Either caliber will do but my recent conversion to the alter of "USE ENOUGH GUN" says the 338RUM or at least 338WM will be the choice. It's kind of like the handgun KO factor. Energy is energy BUT a bigger hole will transfer the energy and do more damage better.

 

[Jeff Olsen]

Either caliber will do but my recent conversion to the alter of "USE ENOUGH GUN" says the 338RUM or at least 338WM will be the choice. It's kind of like the handgun KO factor. Energy is energy BUT a bigger hole will transfer the energy and do more damage better.

A good buddy on mine told me once, before I bought one, that real elk rifles say 338 Win Mag on the barrel! Having owned one a couple years now, I tend to agree. It's the caliber most matched to the quarry. Elk are just plain tough critters and it's a valid argument that a bigger, deeper hole is always better.

I don't know if I told the tale on this forum of the guy I met once in the Tower Mountain Wilderness in NE Oregon who was trailing a spike elk he'd shot. He had a 6-inch piece of lung in his pocket that he showed me that had caught on a log it had jumped over. He'd been tracking it about a mile at that point, in the snow, and later told me he lost the trail about a mile later when it joined up with a herd. That was up and over several major ridges; that is steep country. That makes an impression! He was shooting a .308. Of course, it's very possible he was using an inappropriate (dare I say "marginal"?) bullet or something.

A guy in my elk camp, Paul, who has killed the most elk in our camp over the years, shot a spike elk solidly in the lungs and ended up losing the blood trail after about a half-mile. He found the animal 2 days later but it was ruined for eating. That was with a 30-06 and I'm pretty sure he WAS using an inappropriate bullet; Paul is not a believer in premium bullets or ammo.

Like I said, I'd hunt any elk with my 30-06 and a good load, but I'd much rather be carrying my .338 WM. For that matter, I am really liking my 325 WSM. It's somewhere between an '06 and a .338 WM- not as powerful as they claimed, but still a cool round. In my BLR is perfection as a fast repeating timber rifle with some reach if needed.

I would councel against a .338 RUM unless it was housed in a heavy rifle. I now know, personally, 2 people who bought them and then sold them. Both of them are SERIOUS shooters who have owned, or do own, some hard-kicking rifles right up to the African calibers... but both found the RUM to be unshootable from hunting positions in a sporter-weight rifle. My one friend described the recoil as vicious. I've never fired one and probably never will... my 338 WM with it's fast 26" barrel gets me to within 175 fps of a RUM and that's not 175 fps that I have any use for, personally. Not at the expense of portability or shootability, at least. Now, if I were building a very heavy landing-type rifle... maybe. Then again, my feelings about shooting much past 400 yards or so are well-documented on this thread, so in reality the 338 RUM gains me NOTHING.

-jeff

 

[remingtonman_25_06]

I agree on the 338 RUM! I had a 300 RUM LSS and shot well over 1000 rounds in teh 2 years of owning it. I did not have a brake installed and had no trouble grouping with that rifle at long range from prone positions. Keep this in mind especially since I only weight 145lbs! I am not one to shy away from recoil, but my buddy also bought a 338 RUM in the XCR. I shot a max load with a 225g bullet and the recoil was pretty good. He has already been scoped a couple times. This is coming from a guy who said he would shoot nothing but 250's out of it, ha ha ha ya right. I told him to get something with a wood stock to help soak up the recoil, those cheap ass synthetic stocks dont do anything for that recoil. it all goes straight to your wrist and shoulder. My 300 RUM was the LSS and had the laminated wood stock. I could easily shoot 20 rounds in a session with it from prone and sitting. I was usually shooting 200g bullets at 3200fps, or 210g bullets at 3000fps.

 

[JD338]

The recoil of the 338 RUM really isn't that bad in my 700 LSS. No brake or porting, I added a Pachmyer Decelerator recoil pad which took out the sting. No problem shooting 20-25 rounds from field positions, including prone. The rifle with scope weighs in at 8 lbs, 13.3 oz.

The 338 RUM offers a lot of horsepower, and can break off side shoulders on the biggest critters like Moose and Brown Bear. I have a lot of confidence in this rifle.

JD338

 

[Brad]

This thread has deteriorated further... now, based on the anectdotal "evidence" of one experience, the 308 and quite probably the 30-06 is marginal for elk.

Bullchit!

A marginal hit is a marginal hit. I've seen a bull elk take a hit with a 338 WM "on the edges" take off only to be dropped with a 270 a couple miles down the mountain. Guess by the reasoning exhibited by Jeff Olsen, that means the 338 is "marginal" and the 270 is a "real" elk rifle.

I've killed bulls with the 338 WM, 300, 30-06... I've seen them downed with 243's, 270's, 7mm's... funny, take out the lungs they die. Hit the edges they run.

BTW, would add to those that think the 338 WM will penetrate deeper than, say, a 30-06... I'v got news. Bullet construction has more to do with penetration than weight or caliber. A 180 TSX from a 30-06 will out-penetrate a 250 Partition from a 338 WM while retaining a larger frontal area. It matters not, either will kill elk.

Here's a bull I took last year with the thoroughly inadequate 30-06 using a 168 TSX:

 

[JD338]

Brad,

You are using the wrong caliber AND the wrong bullet. :lol:

Congratulations buddy! Awesome bull.
Can you share some details of your hunt?

JD338

 

[Jeff Olsen]

I agree on the 338 RUM! I had a 300 RUM LSS and shot well over 1000 rounds in teh 2 years of owning it. I did not have a brake installed and had no trouble grouping with that rifle at long range from prone positions. Keep this in mind especially since I only weight 145lbs! I am not one to shy away from recoil, but my buddy also bought a 338 RUM in the XCR. I shot a max load with a 225g bullet and the recoil was pretty good. He has already been scoped a couple times. This is coming from a guy who said he would shoot nothing but 250's out of it, ha ha ha ya right. I told him to get something with a wood stock to help soak up the recoil, those cheap ass synthetic stocks dont do anything for that recoil. it all goes straight to your wrist and shoulder. My 300 RUM was the LSS and had the laminated wood stock. I could easily shoot 20 rounds in a session with it from prone and sitting. I was usually shooting 200g bullets at 3200fps, or 210g bullets at 3000fps.

You know what though... i have the same rifle (XCR) in a 338 WM and the stock seems to do a fine job of helping with the recoil! I've put a lot of rounds through that rifle... the limbsaver helps a whole lot, too.

My one friend, the one who called the 338 RUM "vicious" did know someone else who was doing fine with theirs but the difference was that they had had theirs ported. I make part of my living with my ears and personally couldn't shoot a ported magnum without serious ear gear on... my buddy Tom doesn't make his living with his ears but still had no interest in hunting with a ported RUM.

So maybe porting is the answer? Or maybe one man's vicious is another man's "stout". I've known Tom a long time while he's cycled through various STW's and Magnums and african calibers so he's no stranger to recoil... makes me believe his assessment that a XCR in 338 RUM is pretty brutal... but I'll never know because I honestly have no intention of ever lightin' one off unless it's about a 12-pound or heavier rifle <g>! I work hard to prevent/cure a flinch and that's just not what i need to be doing...

-jeff

 

[Jeff Olsen]

The recoil of the 338 RUM really isn't that bad in my 700 LSS. No brake or porting, I added a Pachmyer Decelerator recoil pad which took out the sting. No problem shooting 20-25 rounds from field positions, including prone. The rifle with scope weighs in at 8 lbs, 13.3 oz.

The 338 RUM offers a lot of horsepower, and can break off side shoulders on the biggest critters like Moose and Brown Bear. I have a lot of confidence in this rifle.

JD338

Interesting! My friend simply could not shoot his in field positions w/o getting dinged by the scope.... tried a couple different scope mounts, both to move the scope farther away and to move it closer (on the theory that maybe the XCR stocks works better with recoil if your cheek is farther up on the cheek pad). Didn't work for him... he was bummed as the rifle shot very well from the bench and on paper, the 338 RUM gave him everything he wanted as an all-arounder.

You SHOULD have confidence in it, if you can shoot it. That's a lot of power.

I think I mentioned that I would much rather have a laminated stock on my XCR but I'm afraid to mess with it!

-jeff

 

[Jeff Olsen]

This thread has deteriorated further... now, based on the anectdotal "evidence" of one experience, the 308 and quite probably the 30-06 is marginal for elk.

Bullchit!

A marginal hit is a marginal hit. I've seen a bull elk take a hit with a 338 WM "on the edges" take off only to be dropped with a 270 a couple miles down the mountain. Guess by the reasoning exhibited by Jeff Olsen, that means the 338 is "marginal" and the 270 is a "real" elk rifle.

I've killed bulls with the 338 WM, 300, 30-06... I've seen them downed with 243's, 270's, 7mm's... funny, take out the lungs they die. Hit the edges they run.

BTW, would add to those that think the 338 WM will penetrate deeper than, say, a 30-06... I'v got news. Bullet construction has more to do with penetration than weight or caliber. A 180 TSX from a 30-06 will out-penetrate a 250 Partition from a 338 WM while retaining a larger frontal area. It matters not, either will kill elk.

Here's a bull I took last year with the thoroughly inadequate 30-06 using a 168 TSX:

Nice elk! Montana? I would love to hunt over there someday... I may be stuck hunting Roosevelt elk (coast range) this next year in Oregon because our eastern Oregon spot has sucked the last couple years and we are talking about not going back there. It's brutal country to hunt and if the elk aren't there... it's just not much fun. A couple guys in camp are talking about guided hunts in Montana or Idaho but, new career and all, I probably can't afford that this year... so I may be, ironically given the content of our horn-locking earlier on this thread, hunting jungle elk with a open-sighted 45/70 this next year! No long-range issues THERE! <g> Anyway, that's a nice bull, congratulations.... that said...

I hunted elk for years with my 30-06 and would gladly do it again, and I said so, Brad. I'm a big fan of the 30-06. Bought one for my brother to hunt deer and elk with; put my money where my mouth is! With the right bullets, like I also said, it's an adequate elk caliber and not at all "thoroughly inadequate". But a 338 is better. With similar loads/bullets the 338 will outperform the '06 as far as terminal performance. I don't think I'd carry a .243 for elk myself; my lower limit would be a 7mm-08.

Those two experiences I related are things I saw with my own two eyes, so they may be anecdotal to you but they aren't to ME. I can't say where the one guy, the kid with the 6-inch lung chunk in his pocket hit that elk other than in at least one lung. The elk that was found 2 days later was double-lunged through the back of the lungs- not the best place to shoot an elk, obviously, but a hit in the vitals. In our camp, elk shot with 338's have gone down post-haste, for an elk anyway. Of course I have heard (anecdotally) about elk shot in the vitals with 338's NOT going down, but I have not personally seen that. And of course .270's, '06's, .308's and so on have dropped many an elk on the spot, but I also have not seen THAT! What I have seen personally is the medium 30's fail to put them down fast with hits to the vitals, not every time but at least a couple of times, and 338's suceed in putting them down fast with hits to the vitals.

Within the context of our previous discussion on this thread, Brad, for you to be suddenly so concerned with bullet performance, and hitting an elk on the margins of the vitals, is just crackin' me up! :roll: Considering that those are exactly the problems that are made much more likely by shooting at extreme ranges. It's not hard to find anecdotal evidence of TSX or other Barnes bullets failing to expand at lower velocities, BTW, right here on the Nosler forum for one.

-jeff

 

[JD338]

The recoil of the 338 RUM really isn't that bad in my 700 LSS. No brake or porting, I added a Pachmyer Decelerator recoil pad which took out the sting. No problem shooting 20-25 rounds from field positions, including prone. The rifle with scope weighs in at 8 lbs, 13.3 oz.

The 338 RUM offers a lot of horsepower, and can break off side shoulders on the biggest critters like Moose and Brown Bear. I have a lot of confidence in this rifle.

JD338

Interesting! My friend simply could not shoot his in field positions w/o getting dinged by the scope.... tried a couple different scope mounts, both to move the scope farther away and to move it closer (on the theory that maybe the XCR stocks works better with recoil if your cheek is farther up on the cheek pad). Didn't work for him... he was bummed as the rifle shot very well from the bench and on paper, the 338 RUM gave him everything he wanted as an all-arounder.

You SHOULD have confidence in it, if you can shoot it. That's a lot of power.

I think I mentioned that I would much rather have a laminated stock on my XCR but I'm afraid to mess with it!

-jeff

Here is a pic of my 700 LSS 338 RUM w/ Leupold VXIII 2.5x8 M1 dials

This is what it will do
[/img]

JD338

 

[Jeff Olsen]

The recoil of the 338 RUM really isn't that bad in my 700 LSS. No brake or porting, I added a Pachmyer Decelerator recoil pad which took out the sting. No problem shooting 20-25 rounds from field positions, including prone. The rifle with scope weighs in at 8 lbs, 13.3 oz.

The 338 RUM offers a lot of horsepower, and can break off side shoulders on the biggest critters like Moose and Brown Bear. I have a lot of confidence in this rifle.

JD338

Interesting! My friend simply could not shoot his in field positions w/o getting dinged by the scope.... tried a couple different scope mounts, both to move the scope farther away and to move it closer (on the theory that maybe the XCR stocks works better with recoil if your cheek is farther up on the cheek pad). Didn't work for him... he was bummed as the rifle shot very well from the bench and on paper, the 338 RUM gave him everything he wanted as an all-arounder.

You SHOULD have confidence in it, if you can shoot it. That's a lot of power.

I think I mentioned that I would much rather have a laminated stock on my XCR but I'm afraid to mess with it!

-jeff

Here is a pic of my 700 LSS 338 RUM w/ Leupold VXIII 2.5x8 M1 dials

JD338

Purty! I'm a big fan of the 2.5x8 myself. 3 of mine are Vari-x's and the newest one is a VX.... I prefer the VX, unfortunatly. It seems a little brighter in low light and I like the new way they are doing the click adjustments.

New career or not, if Remington comes out with an LSS in 325 WSM, I'm in trouble! I've enjoyed messing with .325 on my BLR, and I like those grey lammie stocks. My LSS's are all from the brown-laminate era, and one is a Model 7 while the other 2 were Mountain Rifles... I've handled that stock like you have on yours, and I like it. Fits my big paws well. My '06 is now a sporter-profile barrel with an enlarged barrel channel in the Mountain Rifle stock. I prefer the stock you have. A 24" M700 LSS in .325 WSM would be a rifle I'd have to buy.

My intent was to get one of those stocks for my XCR, but it shoots about like your rifle, well into the sub-MOA range and while I've done some silly things in my life, messing with a rifle that shoots sub-MOA from the factory seems just plain too silly. So I'm stuck with that ugly, noisy XCR stock. My XCR is the most stable rifle I've ever owned, always shooting to the same point all year long and even when benched differently. I don't know if that's from the stock, I just know the dang thing works...

I will say that in truly grim conditions, like freezing rain or wet gloppy snow, the XCR stock is VERY easy to hang onto, even with frozen gloves. I've carried both my LSS's and the XCR in those conditions elk hunting and my hands are noticeably less tired at the end of the day with the XCR-those grippy pads really work.

-jeff

 

[MattStevens]

Brad,

Why don't you appear in the photo with the nice bull? After all that has been said in this thread, I'm more curious what you look like.

Matt

 

[remingtonman_25_06]

Ha ha thats funny.

 

[Jeff Olsen]

Brad,

Why don't you appear in the photo with the nice bull? After all that has been said in this thread, I'm more curious what you look like.

Matt

He probably was the one taking the picture- that's how it is with me usually. I'm usually alone when I get a critter. In fact, I don't even carry a regular camera anymore; I just use my cell phone camera... good enough. I did take one self-timed pic with my cell camera up on a ridge this last season with all of Darwin's creation splayed out behind me for a hundred miles... gorgeous... you can see to Idaho from up there when it's really clear... but it was such a pain in the ass to get it all set up that I doubt I'd even bother to try with a downed animal <g>! Had to get the cell propped up just so on the rocks, etc.

-jeff

 

[MattStevens]

Ok Jeff, but I'm still curious.

I too have set my camera up on a logs etc. for self photos. The only time I didn't do it was this year when I shot the antler off a small four point; he didn't look very picturesque. I have since repaired the horn with some bondo though.

 

[Jeff Olsen]

Ok Jeff, but I'm still curious.

I too have set my camera up on a logs etc. for self photos. The only time I didn't do it was this year when I shot the antler off a small four point; he didn't look very picturesque. I have since repaired the horn with some bondo though.

You should see the picture of my blacktail "buck" this year... two reasons. First, I killed him with my .358 Win. Model 7 and the exit wound is pretty dang impressive- not impressive like an explosive bullet can leave, but impressive like a big 'ol chunk of lead at moderate speeds can leave. I used a 200-gn Hornady at 2600 fps. Anyway, the 2nd reason is that for some reason, the photo-taker (me!) cropped the horns out of the photo! Could it be.... could it be that it's the worlds smallest legal blacktail buck? Yep!

(I'm in the midst of a career change like I've said and was stressing on missing the work time... I'd decided that day I'd shoot anything legal... I think this deer was a young spike who happened to have one antler fork a little. One small buck! Oh well...)

-jeff

 

[Brad]

Brad,

Why don't you appear in the photo with the nice bull? After all that has been said in this thread, I'm more curious what you look like.

Matt

Matt, I'm a slim, trim and, I'm told, handsome 45 year old heterosexual male... from your question I'm wondering whether you're heterosexual.

I hunt solo for elk but always take self-timed photos... I'm just not in a hurry tp post photos on the internet.

 

[MattStevens]

Jeff,

Those fork/spikes taste better anyway. I have collected the horns of every deer I have ever taken with the exception of one, (that is a story unto itself). I suppose if I really looked hard I could find a couple fork/spikes in there. Good Eats......