tddeangelo
Handloader
- May 18, 2011
- 2,023
- 20
Well, I finally got to take some rifles and put them across a bench today.
In the line up, we have:
-pre-war Winchester in 300H&H
-pre-64 Winchester in 30-06
-Wincheser FWT XTR in 257 Roberts
-FN-made Winchester in 300WSM
A few obserations, first:
1- The 300H&H recoil was quite manageable, as I'd been told to expect. Definitely not as abrupt as the 300WSM, and I was shooting 200gr bullets in the H&H vs 180's in the WSM.
2- The Swaro Z3 I have on the 300H&H just flat out ROCKS! I can't really say enough good things about spending time at the range behind such a scope. It was very cool!
3- The Minox ZA-3 I have on the pre-64 30-06 was pretty darn good, too. Really good. My dad looked through it, after using his Zeiss Conquest, and said "what's the big deal? They look the same!" I replied with "That Minox cost me $250 to my door, with a BDC reticle." He just looked at me... "Are you serious?" LOL....yeah, Mr. Minox did just fine today.
(I caught CLNY's New Year sale to get that price, by the way.) Looks good on the old rifle, too....
4- I enjoy all my Winchesters, regardless of vintage. I really cannot tell you which is my favorite, although the pre-64 '06 is growing on me, and FAST.
OK, results:
300H&H
No group pics to post, best I got was about 1.25", BUT.... I noticed a profound tendency to string horizontally. Of course, I didn't check anything out relative to this till I was done shooting, and I discovered that either I didn't fully tighten the windage screws on the Redfield base, or they worked loose. It's entirely possibly I didn't tighten them down like I should have. The good news here is that the vertical dispersion was very small, often less than 1/2".
I was shooting 200gr AB's with RL 22. Chrono data below:
66.0gr: 2682, 2737, 2721
66.5gr: 2754, Chrono Error, 2772
67.0gr: 2777, Chrono Error, Chrono Error
67.5gr: 2807, 2818, 2783
These loads led to some stiff extraction/bolt lift. I decided not to shoot the last batch of 68.0gr I made up, and I'll look to other powders. While I can't fairly judge the accuracy, I should get better speed before hitting stiff extraction issues.
257 Roberts
I did not shoot this one for a group. I had to put an old scope on it for now (stole it's Minox for the pre-64 '06, lol). I did, however, want to chrono the load I'd hunted with last year and have been getting great accuracy from. This is RL22, 45.0gr, under a 110gr AB.
Chrono data for 3 shots: 2645, 2661, 2650.
Remember, this is a featherweight with a 22" barrel.
pre-64 30-06
This one was a joy to shoot. The added Limbsaver on the stock is not unnoticed. The rifle is just plain fun to shoot! While not a collector's find, it sure is winning me over fast as my favorite of the bunch.
I didn't load specifically for this rifle. Instead, I brought some military surplus Greek HXP ammo to sight it, then shot it for groups with my current 30-06 hunting load, which is 57.5gr of IMR4350 under a 165gr Hornady GMX. This turns in 3/4" or smaller groups (have shot one under 1/2")in my M70 Classic.
It printed a group of 1.10" at 100, and I called it good. My dad got in on this one, and he really enjoyed shooting it. A lot, lol.
Group pic (sorry for the tilted angle, the flash blew out the pic if I didn't do that):
The three together at the lower left are the group "for record" that I fired, the others are scope adjustments. It's not letter-perfect, but close. That is a 3" dot, so it's maybe a tad right of where I want it. I really enjoyed that Minox on the '06. Really made the sight-in process easy and responded as expected.
My dad later fired this rifle, two for a "group" that went about 3/4", with the first "pin-wheeling" the center of the dot he was aiming for. He was really enjoying that rifle.
Chrono readings that I got on this load: 2807, 2801, 2807, 2789, 2801, 2795.
That's about 50fps slower than it runs in my Classic. I forget why or how, but I'd found on my dad's chrono online (model escapes me at the moment) that it's generally reading on the slower side, some said maybe 50fps slower than "actual". I have no of knowing that, so those are the numbers as I recorded them.
300WSM
This one really made me pleased today. If I get an encore performance out of it, I'm tickled to death. In this one, I was running a 180gr PT over RL19.
Initial groups produced ok results, but nothing stellar. First, chrono data:
66.0gr: 2726, 2766, 2777
66.5gr: 2807, 2795, 2812
67.0gr: 2836, 2842, 2824
67.5gr: 2873, Chrono Error, 2867
68.0gr: Did not shoot.
Why didn't I shoot 68.0gr? I had the rounds, and there was no bad sign of pressure.
Here's a pic of 67.5gr....that might explain why I stopped.
That's 0.650" center-to-center. With velocities knocking on 2900fps and accuracy like that, I'd be tickled to hunt with that load, and it looks like, if it'll repeat, it just needs about a 1/2-3/4 minute correction in windage to be bang on the money. That's a 4" dot with a 1" white cener. That would put it around 2" high. Probably a hair high for a 200 yard zero, but pretty close.
I'm anxious to get the 300H&H sorted out on the mounts and get it back on the bench soon. Gotta look at data and pick another powder to try,too.
I like what I see out of the pre-64 30-06. 1.1" is not a bragging size group, but more than good enough for hunting, and it's the same load my other 30-06 shoots. That is handy, so I'll live with the groups being a little bigger than I'd ideally settle for. That old '06 is just such a nimble, well-made, great feeling rifle. It's just a flat out hunting rifle as a hunting rifle is really supposed to be, at least...to me it is.
I can't wait to see what the 300H&H is really capable of, though. I'm excited for that. It was pleasant to shoot today....noticeably moreso than my 300WSM, and the H&H was moving 200gr bullets near the same vel as the WSM was doing with 180's, so that tells me the H&H is indeed not too rough on the shoulder.
In the line up, we have:
-pre-war Winchester in 300H&H
-pre-64 Winchester in 30-06
-Wincheser FWT XTR in 257 Roberts
-FN-made Winchester in 300WSM
A few obserations, first:
1- The 300H&H recoil was quite manageable, as I'd been told to expect. Definitely not as abrupt as the 300WSM, and I was shooting 200gr bullets in the H&H vs 180's in the WSM.
2- The Swaro Z3 I have on the 300H&H just flat out ROCKS! I can't really say enough good things about spending time at the range behind such a scope. It was very cool!
3- The Minox ZA-3 I have on the pre-64 30-06 was pretty darn good, too. Really good. My dad looked through it, after using his Zeiss Conquest, and said "what's the big deal? They look the same!" I replied with "That Minox cost me $250 to my door, with a BDC reticle." He just looked at me... "Are you serious?" LOL....yeah, Mr. Minox did just fine today.
(I caught CLNY's New Year sale to get that price, by the way.) Looks good on the old rifle, too....
4- I enjoy all my Winchesters, regardless of vintage. I really cannot tell you which is my favorite, although the pre-64 '06 is growing on me, and FAST.
OK, results:
300H&H
No group pics to post, best I got was about 1.25", BUT.... I noticed a profound tendency to string horizontally. Of course, I didn't check anything out relative to this till I was done shooting, and I discovered that either I didn't fully tighten the windage screws on the Redfield base, or they worked loose. It's entirely possibly I didn't tighten them down like I should have. The good news here is that the vertical dispersion was very small, often less than 1/2".
I was shooting 200gr AB's with RL 22. Chrono data below:
66.0gr: 2682, 2737, 2721
66.5gr: 2754, Chrono Error, 2772
67.0gr: 2777, Chrono Error, Chrono Error
67.5gr: 2807, 2818, 2783
These loads led to some stiff extraction/bolt lift. I decided not to shoot the last batch of 68.0gr I made up, and I'll look to other powders. While I can't fairly judge the accuracy, I should get better speed before hitting stiff extraction issues.
257 Roberts
I did not shoot this one for a group. I had to put an old scope on it for now (stole it's Minox for the pre-64 '06, lol). I did, however, want to chrono the load I'd hunted with last year and have been getting great accuracy from. This is RL22, 45.0gr, under a 110gr AB.
Chrono data for 3 shots: 2645, 2661, 2650.
Remember, this is a featherweight with a 22" barrel.
pre-64 30-06
This one was a joy to shoot. The added Limbsaver on the stock is not unnoticed. The rifle is just plain fun to shoot! While not a collector's find, it sure is winning me over fast as my favorite of the bunch.
I didn't load specifically for this rifle. Instead, I brought some military surplus Greek HXP ammo to sight it, then shot it for groups with my current 30-06 hunting load, which is 57.5gr of IMR4350 under a 165gr Hornady GMX. This turns in 3/4" or smaller groups (have shot one under 1/2")in my M70 Classic.
It printed a group of 1.10" at 100, and I called it good. My dad got in on this one, and he really enjoyed shooting it. A lot, lol.
Group pic (sorry for the tilted angle, the flash blew out the pic if I didn't do that):
The three together at the lower left are the group "for record" that I fired, the others are scope adjustments. It's not letter-perfect, but close. That is a 3" dot, so it's maybe a tad right of where I want it. I really enjoyed that Minox on the '06. Really made the sight-in process easy and responded as expected.
My dad later fired this rifle, two for a "group" that went about 3/4", with the first "pin-wheeling" the center of the dot he was aiming for. He was really enjoying that rifle.
Chrono readings that I got on this load: 2807, 2801, 2807, 2789, 2801, 2795.
That's about 50fps slower than it runs in my Classic. I forget why or how, but I'd found on my dad's chrono online (model escapes me at the moment) that it's generally reading on the slower side, some said maybe 50fps slower than "actual". I have no of knowing that, so those are the numbers as I recorded them.
300WSM
This one really made me pleased today. If I get an encore performance out of it, I'm tickled to death. In this one, I was running a 180gr PT over RL19.
Initial groups produced ok results, but nothing stellar. First, chrono data:
66.0gr: 2726, 2766, 2777
66.5gr: 2807, 2795, 2812
67.0gr: 2836, 2842, 2824
67.5gr: 2873, Chrono Error, 2867
68.0gr: Did not shoot.
Why didn't I shoot 68.0gr? I had the rounds, and there was no bad sign of pressure.
Here's a pic of 67.5gr....that might explain why I stopped.
That's 0.650" center-to-center. With velocities knocking on 2900fps and accuracy like that, I'd be tickled to hunt with that load, and it looks like, if it'll repeat, it just needs about a 1/2-3/4 minute correction in windage to be bang on the money. That's a 4" dot with a 1" white cener. That would put it around 2" high. Probably a hair high for a 200 yard zero, but pretty close.
I'm anxious to get the 300H&H sorted out on the mounts and get it back on the bench soon. Gotta look at data and pick another powder to try,too.
I like what I see out of the pre-64 30-06. 1.1" is not a bragging size group, but more than good enough for hunting, and it's the same load my other 30-06 shoots. That is handy, so I'll live with the groups being a little bigger than I'd ideally settle for. That old '06 is just such a nimble, well-made, great feeling rifle. It's just a flat out hunting rifle as a hunting rifle is really supposed to be, at least...to me it is.
I can't wait to see what the 300H&H is really capable of, though. I'm excited for that. It was pleasant to shoot today....noticeably moreso than my 300WSM, and the H&H was moving 200gr bullets near the same vel as the WSM was doing with 180's, so that tells me the H&H is indeed not too rough on the shoulder.
