First Time Reloading - 338 Win Mag - 74 Gr - RL19

[Stevesdl]

I had bought all my equipment months ago and asked members on here many questions but then got caught up in work and just now getting around to reloading for my Win 338 MA with 225 Accubonds.


A few last questions:

1. I am using RL19; I am loading 74 gr. The powder comes right up to the bottom of the neck. The Nosler 6 Reloading guide does mention that this is a compressed load. Does this level of GP sound about right to those loading 74 gr 338 Win Mag?


2. I tried to follow the Nosler 6 guide on how to seat the bullet but the bullets fit tight in the shell neck (Nosler 6 mentions it should fall into the shell?) So I have made my seating for my rifle at 3.333-3.337 (Nosler 6 has maximum at 3.340. Does this sound to be a decent seating?

3. I am using the manual RCBS scale and it works pretty good but finding out it is never perfectly consistent. I am using a few turns of the Trickler to get exact measurment of 74. Is this a norm? I have no problem measuring every single throw. Just wondering.

Side Question: I have been told by many many reloaders with a Weatherby Vanguard 338 Win Mag that I can start out with either 73 grains or 74 grains with no worries. I have shot 60 rounds of premium ammo out of my new rifle as well. I understand all rifles are different to an extent, but I have started out at the max of 74 grainsd exactly (thanks to the Trickler). Any thoughts.

Thanks All
Steve

 

[JD338]

Steve,

The load you have listed is a MAX load. Never start at a MAX load, good way to get into trouble fast. Reloading Guides are just that, guides. Every fifle is different and there is always the change of getting a hot lot of powder putting you into dangerous pressures in your rifle.
Always start low and work up.
What you can do is make some proof loads. I load at 71.0, second one at 72.0, third one at 73.0. Fire in this order and check each one for excessive pressure signs such as sticky bolt, flattened primers, and extracter marks on the brass. If all looks good, go to 74.0 grs which is a MAX load in the Nosler RG #6 Reloading Guide.

74.0 grs RL 19 is pretty much a full case and the 225 gr AB is a long bullet so you will have some compression. You can use a drop tube or a vibration methode to help settle the powder and lessen the crunching when you seat the bullet.

Using a powder trickel is good. I usually weigh all my charges.

The Weatherby Vanguard is a solid rifle BUT I wouldn't start out with MAX loads. Best to play it safe and start low and work up. Think of it this way, if you lock up your bolt from excessive pressure, it will be going to the gunsmith and you won't have it back for deer/elk hunting this year.

JD338

 

[DrMike]

I wouldn't start out with MAX loads.

+1

 

[Stevesdl]

Okay I wil take your expert advice.

I will do some 71, 72, 73 loads first. Come back to the house if those work and seat some with 74 if all goes well.

Thanks guys.

Steve

 

[JD338]

Okay I wil take your expert advice.

I will do some 71, 72, 73 loads first. Come back to the house if those work and seat some with 74 if all goes well.

Thanks guys.

Steve

Steve,

Some times I proof the loads, meaning I only load 1-2 and shoot them to quickly get where I want to be. This saves me time and money byminimizing the amount of shells shot working up to the MAX area.
I just did this yesterday working up a 7mm RUM load.

Give us a range report.

JD338

 

[OU812]

2. I tried to follow the Nosler 6 guide on how to seat the bullet but the bullets fit tight in the shell neck (Nosler 6 mentions it should fall into the shell?) So I have made my seating for my rifle at 3.333-3.337 (Nosler 6 has maximum at 3.340. Does this sound to be a decent seating?Steve

If you are refering to the method of finding you distance to the lands then yes the bullet should fit loose (but not fall in the case) so when contact at the lands is made the slight force needed to close the bolt will push the bullet back into the case thus giving you the distance to the lands. Needs repeated a few times to get a few data points which should be the same measurement or very close to. In most cases the mag box will limit your seating depth, generally the box is a shorter distance than to the lands as factory gun makers don't want someone to put a reload into the lands and cause excessive pressure which can lead to a thermal runaway.

 

[SJB358]

Steve, you sound like you are on track. Take your time and try out 72 and 73gr charges before jumping into a 74gr charge. I would think you would be in the 2750FPS with 73 and close to 2800 with 74. I seat about everything in the 338 to 3.34 or 3.35. You don't want your bullets jammed into the lands with hunting loads. You sound like you have proper neck tension, and shouldn't have any issues there. Looking forward to your range report. Glad to see your back and hope your feeling well. Scotty

 

[str8meat]

74 is not good in my a bolt but 73 is the shizzle

 

[Stevesdl]

Gosh this is long... sorry.
I have a brand new unsighted scope, a brand new Muscle muzzle brake, and a Limbs De-resonator, I started out with a standing 48"x48"" pallet covered with white paper and a 12"x12" target in the middle.

If anyone should wonder why the white paper, I hate not knowing where my first few rounds went if they are not close to the bullseye target and this helps me. Sure enough, the white paper paid off! My initial tests were with 1 (71 gr), 2 (72 gr) and 2 (73 gr) rounds and 3 (74 gr).

Round #1 (71 grains) - 27" Low and 16" Right (way down on the white paper)

Round #2 (72 grains) - 15" Low and 9" Right (still on white paper)
Round #3 (72 grains) - 2" High and 4" Right (on the target now)

Round #4 (73 grains) - about 1" High and 2" Left
Round #5 (73 grains) - almost dead in the bullseye! (but I never saw that exact again)

Round #6 (74 grains) - 0" High and 1" Left
Round #7 (74 grains) - .5" Low and 1" Right
Round #8 (74 grains) - 1" Low and .75" Left

I checked "each one for excessive pressure signs such as sticky bolt, flattened primers, and extracter marks on the brass." No Issues!


I proceeded to fire 74 grain for the rest of the day. I never got consistent "super" 3 shot patterns but all were around 1.5" to 3" groupings. Here are my observations and thoughts. I was getting these same groups from OTC loads a few months ago at the range so I am going to contribute these results to the de-resonator not being adjusted. It also got a little windy near the end of my day so that might be a factor. According to some comments with this device, your shot groups might not improve and actually be worse until one makes necessary position adjustments with this device. Next weekend will tell.

1. I have only shot 60 over the counter rounds with my new rifle before today so my big concern was just getting familiar and rough sighting in along with first time testing personal reloaded rounds - I felt good after the day.

2. I was also testing the new Muscle muzzle brake - personally I luv the looks and muzzle jump and kick reduced extremely significantly. No back blast at all that I could feel; I could not tell any significant sound blast but then I was the one firing so I really could not tell. I am happy with it.

3. Limb De-resonator; Too many positive reports on this inexpensive "trick" so I am trying this out. I never moved it for tuning since today my major concern was equipment familiarity so this might be a factor in "good or bad" grouping potential. Time will tell next Saturday on this $9.00 gadget - I will let everyone know.

JD338 - please read below this and advise.[/color]
4. Yesterday in Colorado Springs, it was hot and the barrel got hot even though, for most all shots I took 4-5 and then let cool for 10-12 minutes or even a little longer.. Interestingly, on the last 12 shots of the day after a cool down (I shot 40 rounds total today), the first three shot group was the normal 2" group. I decided to shoot 3 more shot goups to complete the day, and I was doing nothing different nor was I tired or hurried but ..... by the time I got to the last 5 shots, they were scattering by at least 4-6 inches? Is this the barrel too hot?

Also here is a concern! around 2/3 way through those last 12 rounds, I experienced something I never have experienced before! The bolt got sticky!!! I could not pull the bolt back and extract a round. Man did I get panicky after reading JD338's comments earlier. After 1 minute I was able to extract. I continued the last 4 rounds and the third round did the same again! Another panic but again after about 30--45 seconds, I was able to extract. Shot the last round and called it quits for the day but those last 9 rounds were not placing well on the target. Is this because the barrel just never cooled down good enough to shoot well?

Anyway there is my first range report. A side thought. Probably like many inexperienced hand reloaders, I am thinking the maximum and the fastest is the best but that thinking my be very incorrect. I see Str8meats last post and at 73 grains his nice A-bolt works like a charm. Maybe I should start thinking more on those terms after these bolt lockups?

Thanks all
Stevesdl

 

[SJB358]

Steve, it sounds like you have your rifle pretty well zeroed, at least to keep your shots on the paper make good use of your targets. I would REALLY drop back down 1 grain. Bolt stickiness is definitely a touch overpressure. You aren't going to blow your rifle up, but backing down will make you alot happier! I can't remember if you said you got a chrono or not, but now is the time to set it up and see what you are getting. It will give you a good idea of where you are and if you are close to where you want to be.

If you fired 40 rounds through your 338 yesterday, I would bet a spot of cash that you were getting a little beat up towards the end. The muzzlebrake helps alot, but 40 rounds is a pretty good amount with a 338 with or without a brake! I think once you go back, you will feel much more at ease with it. Plus, with the high temps, I would think the barrel heating was cumulative and never really got back down to cool. It sounds like everything went well for you though. You are getting good groups and I would start back at 72gr load 4, 72.5gr load 4, and 73gr load 4. Then with a fresh, clean gun, shoot three groups and see what looks the best. More than likely you will see what your rifle likes. If you aren't getting what you want. Switch bullets or powder and see how it does. I think you are fine with what you have though. Just some more time at the bench and you will be in good shape. Also, not sure how your trigger is on your WBY, but that could be hurting your groups a little also. A trigger job or new trigger is something that REALLY helps make good shots and good groups. Scotty

 

[FOTIS]

I wouldn't start out with MAX loads.

+1

YES!

 

[Stevesdl]

First thoughts.
1. I sure am glad someone mentioned to get a "trickler" right off. One can load perfect exact loads with the trickler everytime and it only takes an addional second or two.

2. I am also sure glad someone mentioned RCBS Pow'r Pull Impact Bullet Puller. After I did my first tesing per JD338's instructions, I left the range and came home and seated 40 rounds of 74 grain. Well as everyone read I had issues with the 74 at the end.. but shot 20 of those 40 rounds. I came home with 20 still intact so after about 15 minutes, I had those 20 rounds "unloaded" and now ready to reload back at Scottys new suggestions to complete some testing (72, 72.5 and 73) This time I wont get carried away with reloading till I know what grain I am going to settle with.

I am learning! Thanks all

Oh FYI. Yes I have a chrono like yours Scotty so I will use that this next Saturday. Something might be wrong with me but between the new muzzle brake and the lead sled, I did not feel a thing right after nor the next day. I only didn't shoot the other 20 because my wife was waiting at the house for me ( I was late as it was - lol)

Great feed back Scotty. I am listening to you!!!

Thanks again
Steve

 

[SJB358]

Steve, the trickler is a great tool. I use mine all the time, and pretty much weigh everything I load for, minus 44 mag stuff. Until Christmas comes, and I can get an electronic scale/powder dispenser, my 10/10 and trickler work excellent.

Glad the Power Pull worked out for you. I got the Hornady one, but all the folks on here said they were all good, so I think about any decent one will do the trick. I never used one before, just ended up doing cleanup shots. It is nice having the puller! Saves some powder and bullets.

Don't worry about getting carried away, I still do it, close to 20 years later. I like to load as much as about anything so sometimes I get into a groove, hence, the bullet puller comes in pretty handy!

I think you will find if you are getting pressure signs such as a sticky bolt at 74gr's, you have a tight chamber, which is a good thing in my opinion, you will use less powder to get the same speeds. I push 76grs of RL19 with CCI250's and WW cases. I get 0 signs of pressure and bolt lift and primers look excellent, just shows how different two rifles can be.

I think the chrono is really going to be your friend. It has really assisted my reloading and shooting, cause knowing your muzzle velocity really helps making proper zero's for rifles and knowing where your bullet should be further out.

That is great you had such an easy day at the range. I guess I will insert my foot into my mouth. Sounds like you have a solid bench system and have your shooting down pretty well. I would ditch your Simms deal, for load workup, I am not sure how much it is helping/hurting your loads, but it is a variable I wouldn't want to contend with for load development. I know you are attached to it, but proper loads should give you way more than enough accuracy without it.

Let me know how everything works out, take some pictures of your groups. Some of the folks on here can help out just seeing what your groups look like. Scotty

 

[Antelope_Sniper]

Ok Steve, now that you got a 1 1/2 inch group, this is where the real work starts. It's important to remember, the highest velocity load may not always shoot the best. In my .338 the 225 gr AB group better if I back it off a bit

Next time out I suggest you load 3-4 each of

72.5
73
73.5
74

Shoot for groups. It doesn't matter where each load groups on the paper, because your scope has windage and elevation dials.