Flyers - Which could it be? - New Results

[Teknys]

I picked up a Sako 85 in a 338 Federal. I loaded 2 powders at diff load. Shooting the 200gn CT BT. The one powder - too slow! The H322 I shot from 40 - 45gns. All shot great and at good vel. No pressure signs. I loaded about 30 @ 45 gns and when I went to sight in. It would throw about 1/3 the bullets. Tempereature was same outside. Throw = 2-3" off. I had 4 left at 44gns from my powder trials and they all made the "bulls-eye" bigger.

Thought 1: 45gns is too much. I have seen just .3gns make a sticky bold on my 22-250 with this powder.

Thought 2: I noticed some of the 30 loaded @ 45gn were new cases and some were once fired fom last week. The new start out as a .308 Win case and then go through a 338 Federal die. So I thought they would be the same, but ....??

I already loaded up about 30 rnds at 44 gns to go shoot again.
Any thoughts??

 

[longwinters]

Sorry, I don't know anything about the 338 fed, but you sure can get some great deals on Sako's with them. I had thought about getting one, but did not know anything about the whole reloading deal with them and if they will survive as a cartridge. But if all it takes is 308 brass.....I may have to do some more thinking. :lol:

Long

 

[corbin9191]

Is your barrel free floated? Are you letting the barrel cool between each shot? After I started to let my barrel cool about 2 minutes after each shot I usually would not have a flyer. But I hope someone else can answer better than me.

 

[Teknys]

Yea, the barrel is free floated.
Barrel cooling was eratic. That may have something to do with it. Sometimes 5 minutes between, and sometimes a 5 shot string in a row.

 

[Antelope_Sniper]

Some of the brass being new, and some once fired will definatly cause flyers.

I'd try the test again with consistant brass.

 

[Teknys]

The loads I made up at 44gns, 20 once fired and 10 new and seperated.

 

[Antelope_Sniper]

I'd be interested to see how the 44gr once fired shoot.
A full grain is a pretty large jump on this size of a case. I usually do 1/2 grain on this size case.

What primers are you using? They can matter more then people think.

 

[FOTIS]

Did you chrono every single shot? If so what did the flyer clock in as opposed the the rest.

 

[Teknys]

I should have written them down. When I was first out checking different loads. H322 @44.0, 44.5 & 45.0 all were new brass and 4 shots at each gn. The max-min spread was less than 25fps and the 45.0 was 7fps.

When I shot again with the 45.0 loads with mixed brass (new and once fired) the spread was 2545 to 2615 = 70fps. I couldn't tell you if the flyers were at the low end of the velocity spread. Let's just say frustration and three more guns to sight in "rushed" me. Happily the 300WSM, 270WSM and 7MM STW all shot great. (Oh by the way the draw we were in was full of ground squirrels and we had a few boxes of 17HMR with us)

I'm hearing: Brass (new vs once), Hot barrel vs being consistant with barrel cooling.
I did measure about .001 more case head expansion with 45gns.
If I remember the diff in velocity between 44 and 45gns was less than 50fps.

 

[Antelope_Sniper]

An extreme spread of 7 on four shots is VERY good. That would also translate into a single digit SD. If it didn't shoot better next time out, well, frist I'd be suprised, and then I'd be looking very carefully at the rifle.

It's a Sako...IMO the most accurate out of the box gun.
Is it new?

 

[Teknys]

I just got this from Gunbroker = Euro-Optics a couple of months ago. He is selling the 338F really cheap $725-$750. If I had the $ I'd buy another and spin a different barrel/caliper on.

The only primers I have right now are WLR and WLRM.

It's been over 100degF this week end and going to stay for a few days. I may not get out to shoot again till next week end.

 

[Antelope_Sniper]

So it sounds like a new gun.
What scope do you have on it?
Did you check for Parallox? That was driving someone else nutty very recently.

 

[longwinters]

I have had several Sako rifles and on 3 of them the action screws were so tight it was near impossible to break them loose. This was on rifles new in the box and from 2 different gun dealers, all wood and blue. On 2 of the three rifles, breaking the action screws loose and then just snugging them up changed them from shooting 1.5 - 1.25 groups to 1 - .5" groups.

Might want to give it a try if you havent already.

Long

 

[Teknys]

Scope - VX-L 3.5x10, Talley bases and rings. I checked for any thing being loose and all was OK. Scope came off my Sako 75 and I put on a VXIII 4.5x14 on that gun(270WSM).
I can't remember if I broke the barrel and action off the stock yet. I will do that before I go out with it next.

Thanks!!

 

[Greg Nolan]

The 338 Federal isn't a high intensity or ultra velocity load. Barrel cooling and powder choices, within normal, shouldn't cause the flyer problem. I would check case length between cases, new and used, and the free floating of the barrel. OAL is always a check but I would change scopes for a minute if you have a known good spare and make sure the bases and rings are secure in the process. Flyers are caused by something physical. Usually the barrel or action bedding but sometimes the sighting structure. If you haven't trued the rings you could have a little slippage that will mess up your grouping. It sounds like a great cartrige for deer, elk and bear from what I've read.
Good Luck
Greg

 

[Antelope_Sniper]

Sako, Leupold, Tally, Nosler, sounds like a nice setup!
I'd be interested to hear what you find when you check those screws.

 

[Teknys]

I cracked the screws loose this morn and the rear one behind the trigger guard was VERY tight. Both are snugged up now and ready. I bought a box of factory Fusion ammo @ 200 gns to check against also.

I'm trying to remember what year it was that I last bought a box of factory ammo for myself .. ... ... :? ... I think a box of 300 RUM the year Rem came out with that cal. I bought a 700 LSS.

 

[Teknys]

OK .... After reducing the load ... same reuslts. After second shot they started to throw. I kept the barrel cool. I did buy a box of Federal Fusion 200gn. First three shots into an honest 3/4". I waited 5 minutes and 2 more into the same group. Went back to the handloads and threw again, (group size 2.5" - 3"). Tried 2 more Fusions and right into the same group of it's target.
I stopped with the reloads. They were all once fired cases also.
H322 is pretty fast burning for this case. I bought some RL-15 to try something slower. The Fusion ammo at 200 yds busted the can, at 300 yds - busted a rock (about 6"). Went to 360yds and shot just under, raised up a few inches and the rock disappeared. The gun shoots well and consistant with the Federal Fusion. I bought another box in case I can't make the reloads work with RL-15. I'm running out of time (work, work, and more work), so I'll try another set from this powder.
I've never had this much trouble before with any thing else I've reloaded for.

 

[Antelope_Sniper]

The other powder I'd try is W748.
Very popular with the benchrest shooters, and it's listed as the most accurate and highest velocity powder tested in the Nosler #6....
I'd follow that with RL15, Varget, and 4895 (which ever one I had on the shelf) and I'd expect on of the 4 to shoot.

Other thing I'd consider is either some 200gr speer flat base bullets (flat base is a more stable design), or some Sierra 215gr Gamekings.

Ok, that could take more time then there is avaliable before hunting season, but somewhere in there is a load that will work.

 

[DrMike]

+1, Sniper.

Those are the powders that work best in the .358, and everything I have seen on the 338 Federal gives the same indication. Even though 748 gives the highest velocities (which is true in a variety of cartridges), I'd think that either of the other three listed would give the greatest accuracy.