Group testing my Remington 7600 carbine in 35 Whelen with 180 grain hot cores

[badaxeriverman]

Had a chance to test it out the above load other day at on a deer about 20 yards. It poked a little bit bigger than bullet diameter hole through the hide going in and out. Broadside to quartering away shot. Hit it perfectly in the heart and exited low on the opposite side. The deer ran about 15+ yards like it wasn’t hit and then stumbled backwards and fell over dead with about a 4 foot wide blood trail that look like a fire hose sprayed it on the ground the whole way. When I skinned the animal on the entry side underneath the hide there had of been a whole bigger than the diameter of a large coffee can! The opposite side literally was about the same. Almost like it ripped all the ribs out in a giant circle on the bottom chest of deer going in and out…Pretty brutal imo. It blew half the heart out in the process. Guessing I’m pushing that bullet a little too hard even with a starting load in my short barrel…but it sure did the job. I have to see if I can get those hornady 200 grain pointed soft points to group worth the darn and try those next year and see if they are less violent. It made a way bigger mess than a 180 grain ballistic tip does out of my 30-06 on deer…that’s for sure!

https://imgur.com/QPKS8Ux

 

[gerry]

I believe that bullet is designed for the 35 Rem at much slower speeds. Sounds like it was still tough enough to handle that extra velocity. I would agree with you about using something a bit more suitable for the Whelen. Someone mentioned the 225 gr Sierra and that's what I would look at next.

 

[gerry]

I have a bunch of those 180 gr Speer's and am thinking of trying them next spring for black bear in my Whelen. Sounds like they will be devastating.

 

[badaxeriverman]

Yep, they’re wicked! Glad it’s only a minimum charge load! Think I have 400/600 of them myself. Used them on deer at 2300 fps out of my 35 Rems on deer with great results. The Seirras are about the only projectile I don’t have.

I haven’t seen that much damage from a projectile since I shot a black bear with my 300 rum and a 200 grain Partition.

 

[gerry]

I have a bit of leftover RL 10 x with nothing to use it in, I saw some data for it somewhere with180 gr bullets the Whelen.

 

[NMachine]

I have been using the 180 gr hot cores in my 35 Whelens for the last 6 years. I run them at 2900 fps in my 24” and 2800 in my 22” barrel I have shot 11 deer so far with them with great performance. Closest shot was 40 yards when I shoulder punched a large whitetail doe. Caliber size entry and golf ball sized exit on that one. Not any more destructive than when I shoot the same bullet at 2250 out of my 35 Rem.

I wonder if it was a defective bullet you had.

 

[badaxeriverman]

Either that or maybe it tumbled, but when it poked a hole out the opposite shoulder meat and hide it went straight out. I shot through some really thin tree branches that were maybe 20 feet in front of me and the deer was 20 yards at the absolute most. I figured the exit would’ve been huge and instead the entrance was gigantic with a small exit. Basically the opposite. Could’ve just been a defective bullet that blew the front end off as soon as it hit the deer? Never hit shoulder going in or out just ribs basically the bottom of the rib cage in the chest area, which was completely gone. The bullet did exit the meat connecting to the shoulder and tore a pretty huge sideways gash through it. I ended up cutting that chunk of meat out and tossing it. I would say it was a strip about as long as my finger you could see the bullet hole and it was basically tour sideways a few inches on each side, like almost the size of a hotdog. You can see how those ribs exploded and hit the heart. It literally look like dynamite went off.

I’ve had that before that I’ve shot through a sapling that was in front of a wall hanger a few years back. Blew through the sapling and hit the deer sideways or it already expanded in blew one heck of a hole through it. Giant entry hole and smaller exit hole. Needless to say, the deer dropped in its tracks. That was with a 180 grain core loct out of my 06’.


With the 35 Whalen on the other day the entry hall was probably the size of a quarter or a little bit bigger and I didn’t see the exit hole through the hide. The deer was covered with blood like it fell in a red river.



I also traded for those bullets they weren’t brand new in a box. So they could’ve been seconds? Also, I think they were pulled from yours truly. So if I crimped them maybe it caused some jacket separation in the process, which made them expand more violently? They weren’t brand new in the box. I can tell you that. I do have about four boxes that aren’t open. Figire I’d burn up my loose ones first.

 

[badaxeriverman]

Last day of rifle season here. That is until muzzleloader season starts tomorrow. Then antlerless season after that so I guess it’s not done. Oh, and I forgot the holiday hunt which you can shoot anterless only as well.

So anyways, it was like below zero this morning with windchill so I slept in and went out this afternoon. Think it was 16° not including the windchill. The neighbor was running his four wheeler up and down and all around I believe trying to do a drive for his kid…which isn’t legal I believe using a vehicle. Who knows maybe he was just going for a joyride on his property? Anyways, he pushed four doe to me. Sat and watched them for a while on my property hoping a buck would follow and of course it didn’t. I looked them over and the lead doe was definitely the biggest. About 100 yard shot. I aimed for the offside shoulder like I always do. Deer took off and ran like it wasn’t hit, but I saw a nice hole in the side of it with blood coming out as it ran by. The other three just stood there and looked at me for about a minute and then trotted off. I think I have a total of a dozen extra doe tags but didn’t feel that motivated to start dropping them like flies and have to clean all of them tonight. So I let the others walk off and sat hoping that maybe a buck would eventually come out of the brush and follow as they trotted off, but no luck. Sat for about 20 minutes and no antlers followed them so I went to go see where my deer went. I would have to say it went a good 60+ yards. At first I thought it was about 75 yards …but I don’t know if it made it that far in my guesstimating. The bullet blew out both lungs and a chunk of the heart. There was nothing inside except for blood, where the lungs were. I can’t believe that deer didn’t drop on the spot! I know with a ballistic tip or a core lock 99% of the time with that same shot placement deer normally drop in their tracks or stumble a few feet and fall over. I’ve shot five deer with that Speer 180 grain hot core loaded in 35 rem and 35 whelen now. All have gone around 60 yards on average accept one nice buck. It stumbled 3 steps and fell over. It blows my mind because these bullets are super destructive out of the whelen. I’ll have to try a different projectile next year and see if I get deer to drop a little quicker. The whole top of a heart was disconnected and a chunk was missing off the top of it as well. There was maybe one little piece of one lung still left in the deer that was about the size of a baseball. The rest of both lungs were completely gone. That was one tough deer apparently.

 

[RL338]

I’ll have to try a different projectile next year and see if I get deer to drop a little quicker.

180gt TTSX is what I used in my Whelen. Run them as fast as you feel comfortable and you should see better results.

 

[badaxeriverman]

I have a brand new box I'll have to ladder test them. It's almost like those hot cores are exploding as soon as they hit deer. You would think they would drop them a little faster than what I've seen in the last week. I do have a box of the 200 grain Hornady projectiles that they use in the super performance ammunition as well I was thinking about trying those too. That hot core put a huge hole in and almost like two holes going out I would assume the bullet must have fragmented in pieces and or ribs must have went in a few different directions. Didn't wreck any meat but sure did a number on the ribs just like last time. Glad I didn't hit shoulder or there wouldn't have been any.

I also still have feeding issues going on. I believe it's all about that magazine. I sent that gun into Remington for feeding issues before they went bankrupt and sold out. They were going to send me another magazine and never did. They also said they fixed the feeding issues. Apparently they did not. When I shot the first deer earlier in the week I noticed after I pumped a second round in it got caught up and I had to work the pump to get it chambered. After I shot yesterday afternoon when I went to pump in another round it jammed and when I pulled the pump back a little bit more it of course kicked more than one shell up into the action. I had to drop the magazine and then all the ammunition dropped out of the magazine in the process. When I push that magazine up into the action I can feel it binding like it doesn't want to fit and then it snaps in and doesn't move. It also has worn off bluing where its binding inisde the action. Ill have to see if i can pinch the magsine sides in so it slides in a little looser. I figured id try my 80's 30-06 magaine in it forst to see how it fits and if it cycles from it.

 

[badaxeriverman]

Just went out and checked my zero today on both this gun and my 22” 30-06 pump 7600. It was a zoo at the range today because deer hunting opens on Saturday for gun season. I was dead center and maybe a 1/4” to a half inch left from center at 100 yards when I checked the zero on the 35 Whelen. The 30-06 struck the same 1/4 to 1/2 inch distance off of center at a 45° angle from dead center....both good enough for me. I think I'm going to run with the 35 Whelen with the same 180 grain hot cores this year and see what happens again. I'll be curious to see if it drops deer quicker than it did last year. I know the 30-06 six drops deer in its tracks with 180 core locts most of the time. Maybe I'll give that 180 .358 hot core bullet in a second chance out of the whelen. I do like the idea it puts a bigger hole in and out. It was way easier to see the hole in my paper at 100 yards with it versus the 30-06.

 

[FOTIS]

I have a hog hunt coming up in a few months in Texas. In fact JD338 and Mrs. JD338 will be joining us.

I am really tempted to take my 35 Whelen in 7600 format. Mine loves the 200 gr TTSX

Not a max load but close. Wears a 3x9x40 Trijicon now.

 

[badaxeriverman]

Never tried any other loads in it since my first post. Was not even a thought on my priorty list. Maybe someday I try a different bullet. Just lost interest in the project since I found an accurate load I can use for deer hunting. The rifle will always be kept for a backup close range deep woods, tree stand, deer gun and used for no other purpose. You can see the load it shoots in my avatar. It’s repeatable. I’ve done it three or four times in a row at the range since with 5 to 6 shot groups just as tight.

 

[JD338]

I have a hog hunt coming up in a few months in Texas. In fact JD338 and Mrs. JD338 will be joining us.

I am really tempted to take my 35 Whelen in 7600 format. Mine loves the 200 gr TTSX

Not a max load but close. Wears a 3x9x40 Trijicon now.

I've been thinking the same Fotis.

JD338

 

[badaxeriverman]

Sounds like it’s a pact!

 

[PJGunner]

"Since it was way above book, I probably won’t try and never repeat the load. I was thinking originally I did it with 59.5 grains of H4895, but It was with H322. It still was under Sammy Max 35 Whelen pressure."

One thing that most people don't know is that when Remington submitted the .280 Remington and the .35 Whelen for testing and pressure level determination, Remington asked that they be no hotter than data for the 30-06. hey were afraid anyting hotter would cause Remington to have to repair a lot of pump and semi-unto rifles if they were loaded to the same level as a ,270 Winchester. yet, Remington sells those same rifles chambered to the .270 Win. Go figure.

"I’ll have to try a different projectile next year and see if I get deer to drop a little quicker. The whole top of a heart was disconnected and a chunk was missing off the top of it as well. There was maybe one little piece of one lung still left in the deer that was about the size of a baseball. The rest of both lungs were completely gone. That was one tough deer apparently."

Maybe yes and maybe no. I got this when talking to a doctor that was an ER surgeon. you shoot and it the deer in the heart and it has just pumped a fesh load of blood into the deer, elk, bear, whatever and the animal's brain and body has just received a freshly oxygenated flow of blood when the bullet strikes. That deer if off and running, how far is determined by how much that fresh blood supply made throughout the animal. I may drop on the spot or run way the hell and gone out yonder.

Or,
The plain fact is I don't think the deer or any animal has just had the heart filled or is starting to fill with blood when the bullet strikes. In that case the deer may do a few steps or drop like a rock.

The plain fact of the matter is much depends on how much or how little blood is in the heart when struck by the bullet, what the stat of mind the deer is at the strike. Is it calm and undisturbed or aware of you and getting ready to run off? I've seen deer shot with a .243 where a couple have dropped like a rock to one that ran over 250 yards before expiring. We did an autopsy on that one and the 100 gr. Hornady must have entered and then literally blown up like a bomb. The heart and lungs were just a big mass of goo.

For the record my favorite bullet for the .35 Whelen in the 225 gr. Barnes TSX. I've used it in my .35 Whelen and it's a great killer of elk. I do run a max load of RL15 in a bolt action rifle but brass life is excellent, accuracy is excellent and the trajectory is like a top 180 gr. load from a 30-06. All my elk kills have with one shot each. Two dropped on the spot, two ran no moe than 30 yards and two were down with heads up but unable to get up and run away. Both required a finishing shot.
Paul B.