High fence hunting ranches

[Europe]

When I visited friends in Scotland recently, they hunted pheasants that had been domestically raised and even fed in the same area every day after they were "set free".

This started a conversation that has probably been discussed already here on the forum.

Our discussion was more about big game hunting on a high fence ranch or fair chase big game hunting.

I will be honest and put myself out there first. I prefer a fair chase hunt. ( or I did when I was still young enough to hunt.)

Some interesting comments were made in regards to the high fence hunts, in all honesty all from the younger generation. They said they have no time to travel to an area and then spend two weeks looking for an animal they may not find. You decide what you want to hunt and when and then just of do it--no draw, tags, points, etc--no waiting, just hunting. In some cases they felt it might even be less expensive especially if on a fair chase hunt when you spend the money and come home with nothing. Better opportunity to bring back a large trophy ( and when pressured this was more important that the meat to them )

I found this to be an interesting discussion and thought I would bring it to the forum, as it is possible my fair chase preference is "dated" as am I

Do you understand and possibly even agree with the young people who prefer the high fence hunts ?

 

[DrMike]

Perhaps it is symptomatic of people who like their beef from Safeway. You know, without all that mess of blood and hides and cutting and wrapping. Just go to the supermarket and voilà! There it is in shrink wrap and under an infrared lamp to ensure that it looks good.

If the goal is meat, then go to the supermarket. If the goal is the experience, then go on a hunt. If the goal is shooting one's rifle, then take it to the range and punch paper. If the goal is testing yourself against the animal, then go on a hunt.

I dunno' anything. I mean, after all, I'm a dinosaur. Okay, now I'll take my club and go back to my cave.

 

[Thankful Otter]

LOLLOLLOLLOLLOLLOL
What's a fence ?

Sorry April could not exist. I would not even consider a high fence hunt, hunting! I am not sure what it is but it is not hunting. It sounds more like going to the shooting range and shooting an animal instead of a water jug.

Dr Mike, April, did you guys make your slingshots from animal bones or tree branches. I bet you both were really excited when they invented rifles ( GIL made me say this )

 

[bdbrown66]

Let me start by saying that I am philosophically opposed to the concept of high-fence hunts. It turns things from "hunting" into "shooting," and those two should never be confused.

Having said that, there is a world of difference between a high-fence hunt on 300 acres in the Midwest and a high-fence hunt on 10,000 acres in Texas. At that point, the fence is just another free-range barrier, like a river, highway, etc.

 

[Dr. Vette]

They said they have no time to travel to an area and then spend two weeks looking for an animal they may not find. You decide what you want to hunt and when and then just of do it--no draw, tags, points, etc--no waiting, just hunting.

As already noted, that's not hunting it's shooting.

Hunting is travelling to an area knowing full well that you may not find one, or may not find one that you like. It's about the experience, about making time. If I just wanted to shoot something I'd go to a local game ranch and be home for supper. One of my partner's patients runs a deer "ranch", and I could shoot a big one there any day. But, I hunt so I head out to the field and do what I can to find that animal on my own.

Sounds to me like the young ones you met are attempting to justify their "hunts."

 

[truck driver]

I prefer the fair chase since that is all I have ever done.
I went out to Montana a week early just so I could learn a little about where I would be hunting and try to learn the animals habits.
Though I didn't score the experience was worth the price of the admission
I'll also say that I'm primarily a meat hunter and always have been.
The chase has always been what stirs my blood and the harvest if any was a bonus.

DrMike I could never acquired a taste for Safeway beef and consider it a last resort, I need to see it walking around the week before it is killed dressed and cut up.>)

 

[Anonymous]

Yeah- if the animal can't escape, it's not really hunting.

Ortgeta y Gassett said (famously)- "One does not kill to hunt, one kills to have hunted." I would counter that with- "One has not hunted, until he has come home with nothing."

Heck, the French even have a word for it "Retnre Bredouiulle"

Some friends and I were discussing it one afternoon and decided hunting behind a "high fence" (not a low fence the animal can cross) and calling it hunting was about the same as visiting a prostitute and calling it marriage.

I realize there are places in Texas and Africa that have high fences but are enormous properties. I don't know where you might draw the line- but if I can walk across it in a day, it doesn't meet the grade.

 

[Thebear_78]

If the area is bigger than the natural home range of the animal being hunted I don’t see a problem with it. It’s really no different than hunting on islands here in Alaska when you look at it like that. You wouldn’t call blacktail or elk hunting in a “canned” hunt in afognak or one of the PWS islands.

I also see it’s utility in places like Africa. Large fenced areas to protect fans from poachers. A lot of these areas the animal may never see a fence.


I attempted to go on a hog hunt one time in Kentucky, I let my friend who hunter there several times go first. Even though it was a large fenced operation the hogs where anything but wild, To the point I chose not to shoot one. We literally had to throw rocks at smaller hogs to get them away from the larger sow he had shot. I decided it wasn’t for me.




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[SJB358]

Perhaps it is symptomatic of people who like their beef from Safeway. You know, without all that mess of blood and hides and cutting and wrapping. Just go to the supermarket and voilà! There it is in shrink wrap and under an infrared lamp to ensure that it looks good.

If the goal is meat, then go to the supermarket. If the goal is the experience, then go on a hunt. If the goal is shooting one's rifle, then take it to the range and punch paper. If the goal is testing yourself against the animal, then go on a hunt.

I dunno' anything. I mean, after all, I'm a dinosaur. Okay, now I'll take my club and go back to my cave.

Amen.. couldn’t have said it any better.

If the area is bigger than the natural home range of the animal being hunted I don’t see a problem with it. It’s really no different than hunting on islands here in Alaska when you look at it like that. You wouldn’t call blacktail or elk hunting in a “canned” hunt in afognak or one of the PWS islands.

I also see it’s utility in places like Africa. Large fenced areas to protect fans from poachers. A lot of these areas the animal may never see a fence.


I attempted to go on a hog hunt one time in Kentucky, I let my friend who hunter there several times go first. Even though it was a large fenced operation the hogs where anything but wild, To the point I chose not to shoot one. We literally had to throw rocks at smaller hogs to get them away from the larger sow he had shot. I decided it wasn’t for me.




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I’m with TB here, Africa is a bit different I’d think when a fence is surrounding 20,000 acres or similar most animals don’t even know they are in a fence probably.

 

[ShadeTree]

Nope. Wouldn't consider it. At least not the way it would be in most states. Like mentioned maybe an outfit in Africa would be different or possibly a big ranch in a place like Texas, I don't know. But I feel the same way about pay to hunt managed farms. High fence or not. I guess with some people it's the only way they get to enjoy the outdoors so I shouldn't judge, but definitely not for me.

 

[salmonchaser]

I think size matters, Africa or any where else. 1300 acres is approximately 2 square miles. There are guys on this forum who could, standing in the middle, kill everything inside the fence.
20,000 acres is roughly 32 square miles, about 5.5 x 5.5. Even in Nebraska you're not going to cover all of it in a couple of days of hunting. Throw in some canyons, you've got a pretty big chunk of ground.
I have a friend here in Oregon with a piece that big he leases the hunting on. Two sides are Forest Service. It literally fills up with Elk when the season starts. It's rough ground 10 hunters cover maybe 20% of it. It's not high fenced.
In any event my impression of South Africa, the larger places, the fences serve more to keep undesirables out then to keep animals from escaping the hunt.
I wouldn't mind a high fence hunt in Africa on a place that big I guess. That being said I think I would be bitterly disappointed if I had a big bull Kudu slipping away at 300 yards that inexplicably turned 90 degrees only to find out I killed him because he came to the fence.


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[Thebear_78]

In that instance would the fence really be any different than a river, or rock face hillside. There are natural borders found all over nature too. The kudu would be familiar with all of them fence included. Is it unfair to hunt a natural funnel like a mountain saddle, or canyon?

I’ve hunted blacktail on smaller islands in PWS, some not much bigger than 20,000 acres and judging by my success rate it was quite sporting.


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[salmonchaser]

I concur, and am out of battery


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[cloverleaf]

Only ranches I ever hunted on...the only things that couldn't jump (or go under) the fence were the angus. Some times that was debatable depending on the cow and the fence. From what I've seen, sheep can get through any fence IMHO, eventually. Antelope are known to follow sheep/cattle trails in places, but I've see an antelope do a standing "broad jump" sideways over a five wire sheep fence when he wanted to be on the other side. Love telling that story..... All this means I'm not qualified to venture an opinion on high fence hunts. I don't think I would....but anymore in some places I imagine that's all you can find.
I went on a pheasant shoot on a "farm" once. Had a great time with a bunch of friends. They strapped my wheelchair down to the bed of a four wheeler so I got "out with the dogs" and could watch 'em work up close. Loved that....paid for my birds. I would do it again. But it was not a hunt. Conversely, I have wonderful memories of sitting out on the prairie as a "blocker" hoping that a pheasant would fly by in a 25 MPH breeze. Never managed to shoot one... but seeing those big, long tailed old roosters, go coasting by with a tail wind as the sun set, THAT was hunting..... CL

 

[Blkram]

I fall in with most of what was said above.

Smaller farms with high fences (canned hunts; and I use the term hunt loosely here) are as previously said, not hunts but shoots, or maybe even more accurate, kills, just do not qualify as hunting. These kids today just do not understand what it means to earn something! They believe they are entitled to instant gratification without any investment involved in the effort of achieving success. Pride, and accomplishment, seems to have lost its meaning!

 

[Europe]

Perhaps it is symptomatic of people who like their beef from Safeway. You know, without all that mess of blood and hides and cutting and wrapping. Just go to the supermarket and voilà! There it is in shrink wrap and under an infrared lamp to ensure that it looks good.

If the goal is meat, then go to the supermarket. If the goal is the experience, then go on a hunt. If the goal is shooting one's rifle, then take it to the range and punch paper. If the goal is testing yourself against the animal, then go on a hunt.

I dunno' anything. I mean, after all, I'm a dinosaur. Okay, now I'll take my club and go back to my cave.

I agree and I will be waiting in the cave to cook what you harvested with your club

And Gil also makes excellent point's on his post as well. There seems to be no gratification in "earning" , anything.

I found it necessary to respond to a couple of points made by Salmonchaser and hodgeman via pm so as not to offend anyone.

Bear makes a good point, but possibly some of my resistance is I am like Dr Mike a dinosaur and just the idea of a high fence hunt even on 10000 acres turns me off. The ones we looked at but did not hunt, the owners and marketers off those hunts would use the fact that their watering tanks, salt lick area and feeding areas are where they set up and wait, so to that end, it is a bit different than hunting even a small island in Alaska. Bear I understand and can not dispute your point, it is a good point, I think the problem for me, is me, admittedly.

Great responses everyone ( even you Cheyenne )

 

[EastTNHunter]

It’s funny that you mention that the pro-canned hunt comments were from younger people, as most of the ones that I know who espouse that pursuit are older and more well-to-do. The argument that I hear is something along the lines of “I’m too old to traipse all over the country,” or “I’ve paid my dues.” Most of the younger generation that I know tend to either, A: do it like they’ve been taught on the farm/lease; or, B: try to increase the “challenge “ by pursuing only mature bucks, 1 specific buck, or use bow only. I also hear some younger hunters who have not been raised in a hunting home pursue only meat.

I’m probably what most people consider young, and I only want fair, ethical, and legal fair chase. I hunt for the experience in the outdoors and meat, and antlers or “challenge level” come later. I’m not a trophy hunter from the sense of antler inches or other measurables, but really enjoy the experience and memories in the field. These can’t really be had in a high fence area.

 

[EastTNHunter]

In that instance would the fence really be any different than a river, or rock face hillside. There are natural borders found all over nature too. The kudu would be familiar with all of them fence included. Is it unfair to hunt a natural funnel like a mountain saddle, or canyon?

I’ve hunted blacktail on smaller islands in PWS, some not much bigger than 20,000 acres and judging by my success rate it was quite sporting.


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I think that it still is different many times from fair chase due to genetic manipulation. The animals sometimes are not the same due to being selectively bred, sometimes like livestock, and then hunted in such a controlled environment that they no longer act natural. A natural boundary with a native population is quite different from a genetically modified man made population/boundary.

 

[salmonchaser]

In that instance would the fence really be any different than a river, or rock face hillside. There are natural borders found all over nature too. The kudu would be familiar with all of them fence included. Is it unfair to hunt a natural funnel like a mountain saddle, or canyon?

I’ve hunted blacktail on smaller islands in PWS, some not much bigger than 20,000 acres and judging by my success rate it was quite sporting.


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I think that it still is different many times from fair chase due to genetic manipulation. The animals sometimes are not the same due to being selectively bred, sometimes like livestock, and then hunted in such a controlled environment that they no longer act natural.

Interesting point on the breeding.
I've never seen a high fence operation, the conversation has me curious.
What I'm enjoying is the overwhelming opinion, hunting is about the adventure. It pleases me to learn I share that value with so many.



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[Elkman]

Yes, I would, but it would have to be on a property that was rugged, with lots of topography and many thousands of acres in size. It would have to have unlimited amounts of water, escape cover, and few if any roads, or access by atv or mechanical vehicle. There are ranches that offer high fenced opportunities on areas 100,000 thousand acres in size,or larger and if they met the above criteria i would feel comfortable hunting them.
My 8 acres is adjacent to several thousands of acres of forest and grazing land. I have an small irrigated food plot a water trough and a salt block. So I control one of the few water sources and ares of green vegetation, in the summer and early fall. When I kill an animal in my back yard, I do not call it hunting, its a little more complicated than going to the grocery store but not much. Its technically fair chase but far to easy for me to call it hunting, hunting requires energy and doubt of success. Well that's my ten cents on the subject and an example of two separate real life extremes. I guess each of us has to make our own choices.