How Much Is Enough??

[bullet]

So what is your take? Do you opt for the biggest you can get or at least the biggest you can fire comfortably? Do you practice with your primary weapon? How many rounds do you put through your deer rifle each year? Do you rely on the caliber to replace your ability to put the round where it should be? Do you use your round choice as a safety net? Do you know beyond a doubt where the round is going when you pull the trigger?


1. Do you opt for the biggest you can get or at least the biggest you can fire comfortably? I opt for the biggest that I can shoot accurately and have practiced with for the game intended. Example: I can handle a 416Wby but I choose the 358Win or 30-06 for White Tail Deer.

2. Do you practice with your primary weapon? I shoot all of my rifles a couple of times a year and those I intend to hunt with I practice a minimum of once a month and some months three to four times a month. I start the end of January and go into September or October when I go off for my first hunt.

3. How many rounds do you put through your deer rifle each year? I put though my primary rifles (358Win, 30-06, 300Wby) combined anywhere from 250 - 450 rounds a year depending on time at the range, money available for loading supplies and results of practice sessions.

4. Do you rely on the caliber to replace your ability to put the round where it should be? NEVER!!!

5. Do you use your round choice as a safety net? ALWAYS!!! It does not matter whether it is dangerous game or non dangerous game. For safety as well as humane, quick and effective kills, I always use more than the minimum cartridge and load to handle the task, terrain and circumstances that I might happen upon or likely face.

6. Do you know beyond a doubt where the round is going when you pull the trigger?" ABSOLUTELY!!!! At all times this is a fact with me and for so many reason that common sense dictates.

 

[JD338]

+1

My biggest rifle is a 338 RUM. I shoot it all summer from the bench and shooting positions, including prone. I have shot it out to 500+ yds.
There is no replacement for displacement.

JD338

 

[Richracer1]

+2

My largest caliber is the 375RUM. I bought it to have all four RUM calibers. Fortunately (at least for 6 more months) I can fire all of my rifles at our club range (100M max), I can use them out hunting CA hogs provided I have unleaded ammo for them.

 

[hardpan]

So what is your take? Do you opt for the biggest you can get or at least the biggest you can fire comfortably? Do you practice with your primary weapon? How many rounds do you put through your deer rifle each year? Do you rely on the caliber to replace your ability to put the round where it should be? Do you use your round choice as a safety net? Do you know beyond a doubt where the round is going when you pull the trigger?


1. Do you opt for the biggest you can get or at least the biggest you can fire comfortably? I shoot the gun according to the game. I tend to use a 7mm wby mag as an all around gun, but use my .257 wby for deer more often that not. But, I would go to the 7mm or .300 for elk.

2. Do you practice with your primary weapon? yes.

3. How many rounds do you put through your deer rifle each year? 20-100 depending on the year...

4. Do you rely on the caliber to replace your ability to put the round where it should be? NEVER!!! agreed.

5. Do you use your round choice as a safety net? ALWAYS!!! It does not matter whether it is dangerous game or non dangerous game. For safety as well as humane, quick and effective kills, I always use more than the minimum cartridge and load to handle the task, terrain and circumstances that I might happen upon or likely face. agreed. I hate to have too little bullet or speed.

6. Do you know beyond a doubt where the round is going when you pull the trigger?" ABSOLUTELY!!!! At all times this is a fact with me and for so many reason that common sense dictates. Yes, I know the target, what is around it, and what is behind it all the way to a really solid backstop.
_________________

 

[Richracer1]

For #6, Most definitely. For instance, opening morning of my first ever bull elk hunt, I had a herd bull in my cross-hairs, now besides my shaking due to running to get into position and the total adrenaline rush, I decided not to pull the trigger due to I knew there was a road behind him about a 1/4 of a mile away and didn't want to risk sending a bullet over his back and through some one's passenger window. BTW I never saw another bull elk the rest of that hunt.

 

[bullet]

For #6, Most definitely. For instance, opening morning of my first ever bull elk hunt, I had a herd bull in my cross-hairs, now besides my shaking due to running to get into position and the total adrenaline rush, I decided not to pull the trigger due to I knew there was a road behind him about a 1/4 of a mile away and didn't want to risk sending a bullet over his back and through some one's passenger window. BTW I never saw another bull elk the rest of that hunt.

Well Richracer1, a bull elk is a fine prize but avoiding and accident or killing a person you did the right thing and it was good character that kept you from taking a risk that could have ruined someone's life much less yours.

 

[nodak7mm]

1. Do you opt for the biggest you can get or at least the biggest you can fire comfortably? No not necessarily, I use the one I am most accurate & confident with for the intended purpose/game. Common sense dictates caliber. Example, .243 w/85gr’s min for whitetails. The flip side is I am not going to use my 7STW to specifically hunt for coyotes.

2. Do you practice with your primary weapon? I shoot all of my rifles throughout the year and specifically bone up with the ones I intend to hunt with. Prob at the range an average 2-3 times per month yr around.

3. How many rounds do you put through your deer rifle each year? Prob in the range of 100 rounds a yr once a specific load has been determined/developed....

4. Do you rely on the caliber to replace your ability to put the round where it should be? NEVER!!!

5. Do you use your round choice as a safety net? I find I must answer this question two ways:
a) No I do don’t choose a larger caliber/heavier bullet to make up for bad shooting decisions, an example being choosing a larger/heavier bullet “to shoot thru the brush”.
b) Yes, I select a rifle/caliber combo that provides a safe and humane kill. Applicable bore and bullet for the intended game

6. Do you know beyond a doubt where the round is going when you pull the trigger?" ABSO-FLIPPIN-LUTELY!!!!.

 

[Guy Miner]

Do you opt for the biggest you can get or at least the biggest you can fire comfortably?

Generally, I try to match the cartridge, bullet and rifle to the size of game and the range at which I anticipate a shot. I've found it doesn't take much power to cleanly kill a deer, a good shot with a well placed bullet works fine.

Do you practice with your primary weapon?

Heck yes! I love shooting

How many rounds do you put through your deer rifle each year?

Depends. Most of my centerfire shooting is with a varmint-weight .308 with a match grade barrel. Very accurate but a little heavy for general purpose hunting, although I have hunted with it. I'll put 1000 - 2500 rounds through it most years. Doubt that I put more than 400 rounds through my .25-06 deer rifle every year, although I often use it for rockchucks and coyotes as well. Most of my shooting though is done with a .22 rim fire. Marksmanship principles remain the same. Likely 5000 rounds a year of .22 ammo.

Do you rely on the caliber to replace your ability to put the round where it should be?

Gosh no! Deer die easy. It doesn't take a cannon to kill a deer. A well placed bullet of decent construction from a wide variety of cartridges will do the job quite nicely.


Do you use your round choice as a safety net?

Hmm. I do like to use a round that has a decent chance of slapping game down quickly. If I was hunting something dangerous, or when I'm hunting in real rough country where it's important to drop the game instantly instead of tracking it into some deep hell-hole where retrieval becomes a nightmare - then in those cases - I would rely on a more powerful rifle that is a "safety net" of sorts - more likely to drop the game instantly.

Do you know beyond a doubt where the round is going when you pull the trigger?

"Beyond a doubt." Interesting. I've done a lot of shooting, worn out my fair share of barrels over the years. Very few things in life are "beyond a doubt" in my experience. However I do what I can to make each shot on game as accurate as possible. Have I missed? You bet. Did I learn from those misses? Yes indeed. I've also made some mighty fine shots and have taught my sons to be marksmen as well.


Regards, Guy

 

[Guy Miner]

A question for the OP:

"6. Do you know beyond a doubt where the round is going when you pull the trigger?" ABSOLUTELY!!!! At all times this is a fact with me and for so many reason that common sense dictates. "

Ever do any match shooting? Pit your skill with a rifle against others on the line at the same time, in the same conditions?

If so - you'll know that even very fine riflemen, even state and national champions, occasionally blow a shot. Saying that your bullets ALL, ALWAYS go EXACTLY where intended is a bit naive... We all make less than perfect shots... Take an NRA High Master on the firing line in a 20-round string of fire... Think he will ALWAYS put every shot right in the X-ring? Or even ALWAYS in the 2 MOA bullseye? Nope... Eventually even the best guys miss one.

I was doing a really nice job with iron sights on the 500 yard line at Machias once, shot after shot going right into the bull. Then on shot 17 of 20 I zinged one into the 9 ring when I didn't catch the slight change of wind... My spotter, a former 1000 yard national record holder, chuckled and said "I wondered when you'd choke." :grin: It was a good humored lesson that even when perfection is possible - it doesn't always happen.

Regards, Guy

 

[bullet]

A question for the OP:

"6. Do you know beyond a doubt where the round is going when you pull the trigger?" ABSOLUTELY!!!! At all times this is a fact with me and for so many reason that common sense dictates. "

Ever do any match shooting? Pit your skill with a rifle against others on the line at the same time, in the same conditions?

If so - you'll know that even very fine riflemen, even state and national champions, occasionally blow a shot. Saying that your bullets ALL, ALWAYS go EXACTLY where intended is a bit naive... We all make less than perfect shots... Take an NRA High Master on the firing line in a 20-round string of fire... Think he will ALWAYS put every shot right in the X-ring? Or even ALWAYS in the 2 MOA bullseye? Nope... Eventually even the best guys miss one.

I was doing a really nice job with iron sights on the 500 yard line at Machias once, shot after shot going right into the bull. Then on shot 17 of 20 I zinged one into the 9 ring when I didn't catch the slight change of wind... My spotter, a former 1000 yard national record holder, chuckled and said "I wondered when you'd choke." :grin: It was a good humored lesson that even when perfection is possible - it doesn't always happen.

Regards, Guy

I would still answer the question as ABSOLUTELY!!!! I would not take the shot unless I BELIEVED ABSOLUTELY that the shot I was taking was totally and absolutely safe even though something could possibly happen that I did not intend. I would know beyond any doubt on my part and to the up most of my belief that it was a safe shot. To do other wise opens up many more opportunities for some thing bad to happen. At all times this is a fact with me and for so many reason that common sense dictates.

 

[Antelope_Sniper]

1. Do you opt for the biggest you can get or at least the biggest you can fire comfortably? No. Not the biggest, but the most effective killer of the game I'm after.

2. Do you practice with your primary weapon? Yes. As much as time and money will afford, and at a wide variely of ranges and condition. I will even intentionally choose a windy day to get used to a wide varity of shooting conditions.

3. How many rounds do you put through your deer rifle each year? 100-500 depending on how much tuning it needs, and how much tuning I need.

4. Do you rely on the caliber to replace your ability to put the round where it should be? I use the caliber and round in enhance my ability. Caliber is no replacement for being a lousy shot.

5. Do you use your round choice as a safety net? Again, I use it to increase my capabilities. The flatter my rifle shoots, the more wrong I can be, and still fill the freezer. The wider the wound channel, the more I can be off, and shock the vital enough to kill it.

6. Do you know beyond a doubt where the round is going when you pull the trigger?" NO. I know the shot will be safe, I always know my back-stop, but at 700 yards, in a 30 mph crosswind, and a wild animal with a mind of it's own on public land, or an antelope in a full out 50mph run, a lot can happen.

 

[Guy Miner]

Well, we went from knowing to believing absolutely.

A subtle but important difference.

Like the vast majority of hunters I know, I'll only take a shot if I think/believe I can make it.

Do I KNOW ABSOLUTELY that I'll connect? No... I've missed. And, had I known I was going to miss, I wouldn't have taken the shot.

I ABSOLUTELY believed that I was going to make a hit... A good hit... But I didn't... Stuff happens. We can only try, hopefully our best.

I find that particularly in varmint hunting scenarios - I'm likely to push the envelope and try shots that I know are difficult. Long range. Crosswind. Small target. Fleeting shot opportunity... Yes, varminting is quite a course of instruction in field marksmanship. And humbling, because misses happen with great regularity.

Good discussion though! Thanks for opening up the topic! I think it's important for us as hunters to make the best shots we possibly can. Doing so avoids safety problems, avoids game escaping, avoids wounding game and having to track it... Making a good shot is truly an important part of being a good hunter, and I applaud you for raising this discussion!

Thanks! Guy

 

[bullet]

Well, we went from knowing to believing absolutely.

A subtle but important difference.

Like the vast majority of hunters I know, I'll only take a shot if I think/believe I can make it.

Do I KNOW ABSOLUTELY that I'll connect? No... I've missed. And, had I known I was going to miss, I wouldn't have taken the shot.

I ABSOLUTELY believed that I was going to make a hit... A good hit... But I didn't... Stuff happens. We can only try, hopefully our best.

I find that particularly in varmint hunting scenarios - I'm likely to push the envelope and try shots that I know are difficult. Long range. Crosswind. Small target. Fleeting shot opportunity... Yes, varminting is quite a course of instruction in field marksmanship. And humbling, because misses happen with great regularity.

Good discussion though! Thanks for opening up the topic! I think it's important for us as hunters to make the best shots we possibly can. Doing so avoids safety problems, avoids game escaping, avoids wounding game and having to track it... Making a good shot is truly an important part of being a good hunter, and I applaud you for raising this discussion!

Thanks! Guy

Guy, how did you like that subtle move to Believe Absolutely :grin: Yes, your point is true and I should have worded the question better.

 

[DrMike]

Guy,

Good call on your post.

Bullet,

Raised some excellent points that should stimulate thoughtful consideration of the ethics of the sport, or hopefully reinforce what is already being put into practise for most of the fellows on the forum.

 

[Antelope_Sniper]

So we agree.
Absolutely safe,
shots we believe we can make.
The better the gun and ammo, the more shots we believe we can make.

 

[jtoews80]

Great food for thought.
#1 I try to use something that isn't terribly destructive on game, but still will anchor them with a well placed shot. I think that bang flop may not be the end all, but I really want that animal down and done inside of 100yds.

Until recently, I owned a 30-378 for deer hunting, but the meat damage is terrible. I used the 257 wby last year and found it won't destroy most of the meat and still really knocks them down nicely. I wouldn't be scared to hunt elk with it, but there are better bigger rifles for that task.

#2 I shoot 50-100 rounds thro my hunting rifles and I usually have a varmint rifle that gets to be the workhorse and gets shot 300-500 rounds per year. I try to shoot a couple times a month from may until season and sometimes I will just shoot a 5 shot group in the evening on a cutline that has a big bank behind it and offers 600m of range, I try to make sure that string is at 300 or more meters.

#3 My 257 had 100 rounds thro it last year, bought it in early september and had 80 rounds thro it before the end of Novemeber. My 30-378 had 100 rounds per year that i had it before season.

#4 No, but it is a temptation when shooting overkill magnums. I used to head and neck shoot alot, but started shooting lung/shoulder shots more with my 30-378. I think it may have been fear of launching that much energy off target. We hunt in areas that are somewhat populated and even tho there are no houses, there is a fair number of hunters in the area with or without permission.
I would hate to hit somebody even if they are poaching.

#5 To a degree, I think the rifles I use can kill effectively at the ranges I use them and probably about 1.5X farther. I have a 375 ICL to hunt in areas where the game may fall down a slope for a km and there may be grizzlies there as well.

#6 Opening morning I grab the rifle that I'm comfortable shooting and can count on hitting what I am aiming at, but will concur with Guy on the fact that being human naturally creates a margin for error.

Great thread.

JT.

 

[HeathSexton]

1. I like stuff that works for what I am after. I can handle more but I use a .358 Win, 30/06, .35 Rem, and .44 handgun for deer.

2. I shoot a couple times a month all year long to keep things working, breathing correctly, trigger control, etc.

3. Primary weapons are anywhere from 50-100 rounds per year per gun.

4. Nope, I hav always been a pretty good shot, I take a lot of pride in that.

5. I don't know if I would say safety net but I will use enough gun and the correct bullet for a clean kill from any angle I need.

6. Yup.

 

[Greg Nolan]

The thought Elmer Keith expounded was "use enough gun"! He hunted the same area of Idaho I do. I use enough gun based on the animal I'm hunting. Hydrostatic shock is as important as penetration and will drop your animal quicker but you need to have enough bullet so the shock transfer will carry thrue the animal from any angle. Elk weigh 3 to 4 times as much as deer. The AccuBond is the perfect bullet for this purpose.
The number of times I shoot increases as the season nears.
Picking the "perfect" bullet calilber combination for the animal is as critical as picking the perfect wet or dry fly to match the hatch for a fly fisherperson.
Reloading ammo is the equivilent of fly tying and the weight and length of the fly rod is as the caliber and cartrige is to hunting.
Do I know where every bullet I shoot is going? NO! but I know where I aimed is a safe direction just in case I was wrong on my guess.
Nothing is killed too dead by a too powerfull caliber, only wouned due to lack of concern for the animal compared to insistance on taking a big game animal with a minimal caliber.
High power shouldn't be a crutch. A muzzle break will make most powerfull, flat shooting calibers manageable for most hunters and it doesn't hurt to be using a powerfull, flat shooting cartrige.
My shooting skills are excellent (but I never seem to have a bench rest when I see a game animal I want to shoot) so I try and keep my shots reasonable based on the time and rest I have available for the shot.
This is an excellent post. Thank you bullet :grin:

 

[Jim1 AB]

I think it is more important to just get out there and shoot. Either target practice or shooting gophers. Your teaching your body it shoot. If your body knows what it has to do you don't have to think, just do. I've talk to a few guides over the years and they'll tell you if the client has done a lot of just plinking around even with his 22 over the summer he is going to be a far better shot than most.

Jim

 

[FOTIS]

My biggest and favorite gun is my 378 WBY.
Love it!