How Much Rifle Do You Need?

roysclockgun

Handloader
Dec 17, 2005
736
1
Robert Rourke wrote : "Use enough gun!" There are many opinions on that statement. Over the past 50 years, I have seen the overall costs of firearms and optics rise at incredible rates. But, how many hunters need to spend $1500 and/or lots more, for a deer hunting rig or even a varmint rig? I wager that most of them could harvest just as much game without a hitch by using entry level equipment. Many arms manufacturers offer "package rifles" at very reasonable cost.
When I think of spending more on a firearm or optics, it is because I am investing in an expensive (for me) trip to Wyoming, Texas or Nova Scotia, etc. to hunt. On a trip like that, one wants to cover all bases in having equipment that save for extreme accidents or weather, will get the job done, without optics fogging up, scopes wandering off zero, or failures of the stock, action or barrel.
However, for the hunter who goes a few miles from home to hunt local game, the problems with long shot failures are not as critical. For instance, here in FL. there is a good population of white tail deer and wild pigs. Many local hunters never venture out of their home county to hunt. So, why would they need to spend more than what an entry level, already scope mounted package rifle cost? IMO, they do not. This especially if they are cash strapped.
Too many of the modern day hunters have been sold on the need to mount a scope that cost more than does the rifle. And, to get wood that doubles the cost of what the same rifle would cost in a plastic stock.
Certainly if one really wants the beauty of high cost wood with carvings and super deep blueing with engraving, and they can afford those luxuries, they should buy them with my blessings. I do not criticize anyone for spending money on what they want. However, I do take exception to the way that advertising has cowed many hunters into buying more than they really need and in some cases, more than they can afford. The hunters or newbies to hunting need to sit back, take a breath and focus on what they want out of a hunting rig and buy according to their set budget and not be pushed into spending more than they need to spend to get the job done.
Steven L. Ashe
 
I can not disagree with your post, which is the reason I suggested to the moderators to ban Scotty from this forum LOL

Seriously, you make a good point and I am as guilty as the next on buying equipment that is not necessarily needed. my purchases are not as much advertisement driven as personal preference driven . I like blue and wood, better glass works for me in the field by relieving eye strain, helping me to spot game and make a decision on my shot. I would rather have four rifles I really like and enjoy using than eight rifles, that would work but I dont like. Then we get into the area of wanting a gun with zero reason for needing it, and someday I will own a double rifle from Africa's golden era, maybe a 470 NE.
 
"The hunters or newbies to hunting need to sit back, take a breath and focus on what they want out of a hunting rig and buy according to their set budget and not be pushed into spending more than they need to spend to get the job done"

YOu are very right and I will agree that many vendors exploit "whatever the market will bare" and "supply and demand" excuses but ...

...and this makes me smile all day long about this site. :)
As I sit back and think about this site and all its members, in my sincere honest opinion, the members of this site super encouraged every single person on here regardless of what they have for hunting equipment. I have never seen anyone condenscend on another person's lesser equipment and if anyone suggests a higher quality equipment that usually costs more, it is done with kind sincerity and humilty. True there are some who spend a few good hard earned dollars for some equipment that could cost less if the vendors didn't exploit the customer but no one ever encourages anyone else to go buy lots of expensive equipment to have an enjoyable shooting and hunting experience.

The character of Nosler's reloading site is so super unique. Though I am a member of other sites (and some sites do encourage and promote spending some maybe needless dollars), Nosler's site encourages the sport, the science and excellent comraderie amongst all. This is by no means by accident that this site is a #1 site for one's needs. JD338 and others purposely manage this site to be exactly so and we all love it like that. :wink: This not only benefits our great site sponser Nosler, but also reflects what Nosler is all about and because of that I support the Nosler bullet and case products 90% of my purchases now.

Now I kindly want to say I didn't mean to get long winded (I am famous for that - ask my wife). Don't get me wrong, you brought up a valid point and product exploitation is happening big time out there in world, but the beauty of this site is you can get the best expert knowledge, incredibly patient assistance, and super comraderie 24\7 and never worry about getting harrased or misguided. Its even incredible when you can mention another vendors products and no one slams you for such! Just incredible.

I am pro-Nosler all the way and this site and its members made me this way.
Go Nosler

Steve
 
Darn you Sean!

I agree with everything you said, and usually recommend a Winchester or Savage to a new hunter, just starting out. My basis for that is they come, ready to hunt. I would rather see someone get a little bit less expensive rifle and put a decent scope on it that spending alot of money, on just the rifle. After my cousin took his first deer with my boys 243, he was ready to put out his Summers earning for a rifle to capitalize on all hunting in Northern NY. We went and got his a Savage package, with a scope for 350.00. That rifle shot Federal 100 grain soft points, into 3/4" out of the box. I told him to save up for a decent scope and he would have all the rifle he would ever need, till he decides to hunt larger game. He did just fine with that rifle this past Fall, taking another young buck, with one shot. The trick was, he shot wood chucks, crows and yotes all Summer long with it. He knows that rifle and what it does. Killing a deer was easy for him..

So, yeah, your right, there are some great rifles to be had on a budget and once you tire of the plastic stock, if you ever do, they are upgrade-able to wood or a quality synthetic. I just try to get them started with a solid foundation.
 
See how Scotty secretly makes you want to buy more rifles. I always thought one was enough and then Scotty put me in a trance. Now I have two (and one for the wife) and Scotty is using subliminal messaging to make me believe I need a 300 WSM now. :mrgreen:

P.S. Scotty has been one of my rocket scientists for reloading information and all around support. :mrgreen: :mrgreen:
Steve
 
I certainly believe in "using enough gun" to paraphrase Mr. Rourke. I also believe in buying good equipment - as good as you can afford - as I have learned over the years that having the right tool makes the job go smoothly. That said, most folks who know me know that I'm so tight I squeak when I walk.

So I usually recommend that people buy a quality rifle (the Weatherby Vanguard is one of my frequent recommendations) and then plan to spend at least $150-200 on a scope, and more if they can muster it. I make those recommendations based on years of field trial (and error) and on observation of certain trends in rifles and scopes. For instance, I strongly advised a coworker against a Remington 770 just a couple of weeks ago. I steered him toward a Marlin or Savage instead, as I believe the 770 is junk. Can it be had for less money than the Marlin or Savage (neither of which is expensive by any measure)? Sure. Is the extra $50 worth spending? Even more assuredly than that the 770 is cheaper. I could easily steer that coworker toward a $600 rifle, but in reality, his use for the rifle did not warrant it. So he's likely to get a synthetic stocked Marlin in 30-06 or 270Win and be done with it. I did advise him to get at least a Burris FFII or equivalent scope. It's a shame the Bushnell Elite 3200 is no longer on the market. That was just about the best scope for the dollar in what I consider first tier scopes (as opposed to sub-par scopes for $49.95 and such...). Obviously one can spend $400 and get a nice German/US built 3-9x40 class of scope, but again, for this friend's use, that was overkill.

I do think we have a lot of hype in the sport these days. I will also agree that (thankfully) we don't have that hype here at the Nosler forum. This is one of the last respites of civil conversation and honest advice on the net. It's nice to see everyone so welcoming of new folks, and yet so protective of the forum, in the way we are.

Oh, and as for Scotty, he's already caused me to pick up a new rifle I did not need (that I've managed to be very quiet about up to now...) and now he's causing me to "need" a spotting scope, too. What a great guy!
 
dubyam":1edp503w said:
Oh, and as for Scotty, he's already caused me to pick up a new rifle I did not need (that I've managed to be very quiet about up to now...) and now he's causing me to "need" a spotting scope, too. What a great guy!


Man, you think I am rough on you guys, you should see the turmoil that goes on in my own head!
 
You know, some of us are probably easy marks, Scotty! Kind of like sailors on liberty after 3mo at sea...any pretty girl (rifle) that bats her eyes...
 
Fascinating to open my computer and see this discussion taking place. As my wife and I were enjoying a cup of coffee and talking this morning, our conversation drifted briefly to some of the posts on various shooting forums. I commented at people that exhibit class envy because another individual may have a rifle with a better name than theirs. She knows that I delight to make my (predominantly) off-the-shelf rifles shoot quarter MOA or better. I stated, and I truly believe, that I am not in the least diminished by those who buy rifles that shoot one-tenth MOA. If they were purchased from RMR, I may very well have had opportunity to shoot them and even do the load development on them. I do believe that dubyam is correct that the better the tool, the easier the work. (A rock will drive a nail as readily as a hammer, but the job is certainly more enjoyable with the hammer). I do believe that one should purchase all the scope they can afford. Fortunately, we live in an era when even entry-level scopes are vastly superior to what was commonly available just a few years ago. All one need do is compare what was available with what is now available to realise that the times are changing, and not all for the worse.

Oh, and I am so very pleased to see people recognise Scotty as the source of pleasant sorrow for so very many on this forum.
 
oh too funny Dubyam. --> "most folks who know me know that I'm so tight I squeak when I walk."
Are you sure you didn't get that from my wife speaking about me? :mrgreen:

I am totally sold on the Weatherby Vanguards. I have one 338winmag in Series 1 and two series 2s in 7mm-08 and 7mm Rem Mag. I love these rifles.

Well I am reloading for a new hunting partner this fall. Guess what rifle he has. The Remington 770. He doesn't have much money and if this works for him this one season then super.. If it is not a decent rifle, I will make a kind suggestion that he sell it for $290. and get a Weatherby Series 2. :):):)

Nice candid posts all :):)
Steve
 
"Oh, and I am so very pleased to see people recognise Scotty as the source of pleasant sorrow for so very many on this forum."

Don't look too far Dr Mike.
You are a very close #2 :lol: :mrgreen:
 
DrMike":2v4yfeqq said:
I can't believe you think Mike is #2! Man, if you all only knew!

Yes, the Avis of the Nosler Forum. :roll:

Yeah, this is not the case, don't let that old Doc fool you all... He has spread Miracle Grow around my first Model 70 and that thing has multiplied since 2006!
 
"Miracle Grow?" I never use the stuff. I just let the sunshine in along with a bit of moisture; someone else provides the fertilizer. :mrgreen:
 
"I can not disagree with your post, which is the reason I suggested to the moderators to ban Scotty from this forum LOL"

:lol: Now that was funny!

As for subject matter,,,,
Fact is, this Nation, has been or was founded on the princples of wants. Only during the Great Depression did we/history see where the bulk of general public go into "Needs Mode". And seeing how with the internet and failing News Paper's, I know don't many want to use junkmail for tp today,, :lol:

I understand however the newcomer can be overwhelmed with choices, but it's not necessarily mgf's or their marketing team's fault. It's our inherent nature to have something new or better, that drives markets and marketing.
Again, it's just the principle of the free enterprise system that our Founding Father's started, of which made this counrty and western civilization (including our neighbors to the north) so great that it is at work.
I think if it was just having what is needed, most wouldn't like it very much!
But that's not saying we can't instill some common sense along the way, when warrented. But to deter someone from going the way of their wants would not be right either. How deep one's pockets are, and then their choice's are theirs alone. If one ask advice is another matter all together. Then all options with objective reasoning for all should be presented, and then leave it to their decission.
just my thoughts
 
Interesting thoughts You know, if push came to shove, morst hunter could do quite well with noting more than a .22 rifle, 30-06 and a 12 gauge shotgun. You culd easily substitute a .270 or .308 or some other centerfire rifle for the 30-06 and maybe a 20 gauge for the shotgun but to be honest it would be boring as hell. Then there is pride of ownership. Sure a synthetic stocked Savage with scope package will do the job but a nice custom with pretty wood goes a long way toward stroking the ego. By all rights, conseding my means, retired with a fixed income that ain't all that great, what in hell am I doing with a .416 Rigby, for example? Unless I have a rich uncle that dies and leaves me a fortune or I win the lottery, a hunt in Africa just ain't gonna happen. I don't even shoot the thing anymore. I guess that's what happens when one is an extreme rifle loony with a severe case of RADD. No, I don't plan on selling everything off but the .22, 06 and shotgun but I have seriously considered sell off the majority of what I have accumulated over the years and using the money for a couple of hunts before I croak. Maybe do a few exotics in Texas. I've always just hunted for meat, never heads on the wall until I shot a nice antelope in 2009. One thing is for sure. It'll be a cold day in hell beofre I sell my .35 Whelen. :wink: :lol:
Paul B.
 
There is Dave with all that sense!!

I agree Paul, owning rifles I like.. I have sold all the ones I don't want, now I want the ones I have and plan to use them all.. I have a ton of overlap, but who cares? I like to load for rifles, shoot them and hunt them. Can't do that with just a 300 Whelen.. At least, I can't!
 
"what in hell am I doing with a .416 Rigby"

I believe this would be a very efficient rifle for Adirondack Mountain snowshoes but I need Scotty to verify that. (they get pretty big up there) :lol:
 
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