Interesting mishap (stuck case) UPDATED

chet

Handloader
Mar 10, 2006
554
0
I'm still unsure what happened, but I'll try my best to explain and you guys can post your thoughts:

I recieved a bag of 7mm rem mag nosler brass (2nds) from SPS.
They looked great! I decided to neck size them as I do with all new brass just to make sure they're nice and round.
I sprayed them with "one-shot" as I always do.
Everything went smooth until the sixth piece.
It felt normal, but I could not remove the case from the shellplate. It felt as if a primer was not fully removed and there was some sort of mechanical jam. (of course there was no primer, it was new brass).
The case would tilt and rotate, but would not slide out. (dillon 550 press).
Not wanting to "force" it out with pliars and risk breaking something I decided to run it up the die again in hopes that the decapper pin would dislodge whatever was jamming the case. The case stuck and I sheared the rim off. WTF?????
The decapper pin was protruding as normal and I could see nothing wrong with the bottom of the case.
I removed the die, and was able to remove the threaded shaft that holds the expander ball and pin.
of course the ball wouldnt come out, but the pin appeared to be stuck in the flash-hole.
So I threaded it back together without the locking collar and gave the shaft a smack with a hammer, the case came out quite easily, so I'm guessing lack of lube was not the problem. I un-screwed the shaft and the expander was rattling around inside the case. I cut the case in half to retrieve the expander, it appeared normal. The decap pin was still stuck in the flashole. I knocked it out with a small punch, it did not take excessive force to do so. All parts of the die were straight and unharmed. There was a little brass build-up in the die where the belt of the case sits, normal as I headspace off the shoulder.
The flash-hole of this case appears to be a tad smaller than the other cases.

My theory is:
there was no flash-hole to begin with, the initial sizing punched a flash-hole in the case (although I did not feel it)
the brass shaving from this process may be what bound up the case in the shell-plate???
the second sizing stuck the de-cap pin in the flash-hole, that was enough retention to shear the rim off the case????

As you can see, my theory is not rock solid, the only brass pieces I could find were the shavings off of the rim.
The only real evidence that I have is the flash-hole does appear to be smaller than the others.

thoughts??????? :oops:
 
When I do the inital prep on new brass, I always inspct each case for potential problems. I once bought 500 rounds of .358 Win. brass and 6 cases marked .358 Win. wee actually .356 Win. with mismarked headstamps. It pays to look firse then do what needs to be done.
Paul B.
 
Don't think you could have punched the flash hole, the brass is too thick in that area. Probably didn't have enough lube for the case to be removed in a normal fashion. Try Imperial lube, I keep reading reports of stuck cases with one shot. Were you using the FL die? My other guess would be a misshaped case rim. Had that happen on my last batch of Win 300WSM. One case out of 50 would not fit in the shell holder.Rick.
 
Rick,

I recently bought a .270wsm rifle. After running 50 new cases thru the Redding FL dies I started in on the next bag of 50, both bags were Win. new cases. Some of those cases would not go in the shell-holder at all. So, as I have several different brands of shell-holders, I removed the RCBS SH and replaced it with a Lee. WA LA, now they all slip right in. I have no idea why the SH are not the same. Now I keep the Lee SH in the .270wsm die-box with the dies.
 
Chet, also check the headstamp on the piece that seperated, I have had a wrong piece in a bag of brass.

Kodiak, I was going to do the same as you but decided to measure the rim diameter. That is when I saw how uneven the extraction groove had been cut. Probably wouldn't fit any shell holder, in the trash.Rick.
 
I am now suspecting a flaw with the rim......
when the shell holder shaved the rim off, it took very little force. And the case popped out of the die quite easily.
of course now the rim is damaged and I can't tell what it looked like before.
My bad for not inspecting closer :oops:

new theory:
the first time I sized it, the rim bent or mis-shaped, causing the case to bind up in the shell holder - preventing easy removal.
the second time I sized it, the rim gave way.

That makes alot more sense. 8)
 
"I received a bag of 7mm rem mag nosler brass (2nds) from SPS."

Might it be that Nosler found them to be "2nds" by their inspection system? Many times the real story behind "2nds" is not known by the buyer.
 
Kodiak":2i57krak said:
"I received a bag of 7mm rem mag nosler brass (2nds) from SPS."

Might it be that Nosler found them to be "2nds" by their inspection system? Many times the real story behind "2nds" is not known by the buyer.


Nosler has always maintained that the seconds they sell are cosmetic seconds only. I can't speak directly to that being absolute fact, but I can tell you that Nosler has always dealt squarely with me, and that's their reputation across the industry. I suspect this was not a flaw related to the "seconds" classification of the brass, but I could be wrong.
 
Kodiak and chet,

Redding dies are a real problem for me. The extraction groove on many brass will not fit the holder. Interestingly, and in contradistinction to your experience, RCBS dies appear to work very well. One other observation that I have made over the years. Redding dies allow a fair amount of "wobble" in the brass. I've broken several decapping pins and decapping assemblies. When I switched to RCBS, there was no further problem. These observations are especially pertinent to work with the WSM cartridges, though it generally holds true with other cartridges as well. These problems are obviated by using the Forster Co-Ax press.
 
I got a bag of first line Remington Nickle 270 Win cases once and one of the cases did not have a flash hole.
 
1Shot":npux60it said:
I got a bag of first line Remington Nickle 270 Win cases once and one of the cases did not have a flash hole.

Man, that could affect your velocity! Scotty
 
This has happened before. Finding brass mixed in is not that uncommon. I've even found 35 Whelen brass mixed with 358 brass (Actually, that was the genesis for my desire to acquire a Whelen). 356 brass with 358 is fairly common, I can assure you. I think the marvel is that more of such things don't happen when you consider the millions of pieces produced by a manufacturer.
 
Mike, this is an RCBS die that is probably 25+ years old. RCBS is all I've ever used for bottle necked cases, never even tried anything else......
The case in question is in fact stamped correctly.
 
chet,

I didn't weigh in on this earlier as any statements from this distance are purely speculative. Flash holes in Nosler brass are drilled rather than punched. I wonder if the drill was worn and created a somewhat smaller flash hole. This could possibly permit the decapping pin to push through, though if it was slightly on the larger side of the tolerated standard to then stick in the flash hole (which was incidentally slightly enlarged by the pin as it slid through. It doesn't take much force to tear the rim off. Actually, last month I broke a shell holder while working on a 338 Lapua. There is not a lot of metal on either the shell holders or the brass. The resizing process is dependent upon a fair measure of lubricity as the ball is pulled through the neck. Again, just speculation. The older decapping pins on RCBS were, in fact, of somewhat larger diameter than the newer decapping pins, which leads me to proffer this particular suggestion. Hey, it is worth what you paid for the opinion!
 
I can recognize the very same ting from a batch of 222 Rem Hirtenberger brass some 20 years ago... And the problem then, was undersized flashchannels... I had found some 25 pcs of brass on the firing lane, Appeared to be oncefired so they went home to my friendley tumbler for a nice cleaning.. But after that, I do not use Hirtenberger but gives them to someone I do not like...

An off center case is also a possiblity...

But Nosler brass has a good reputation, so maybe it was a "1 of a 1000"?
 
well..... it happened again!

Once fired case, out of the same batch of seconds, I couldn't even get it all the way in the die! Well, maybe I could have, but I knew something was wrong!
I tapped it out..... inspected both brass and die.... I can't see anything wrong....
I cleaned them both and re-lubed with a different lube.... STUCK AGAIN!!!!
I mic'ed the case, it checks out just fine! Largest diameter on the body was .509
I disassembled again! cleaned again! Lubed again! Used a different once fired nosler case, extra lubed, (expecting major lube dents on the shoulder). It went in all the way, but it was far from smooth, and it made a horrible SQUUUUEEEEEKKKK upon retraction! WTF?
Disassembled, cleaned, and tried it again with once fired R-P case, STUCK!!!! SHEARED RIM!!!!! SOAB!!!!!

I tried "one-shot", dillon spray, rcbs spray, and imperial wax. I am now positive that the die is defective, I must have somehow scratched it?????
It doesn't exactly appear to have a "mirror" finish, but I can't see the teeth that are apparently there...... dang it!
 
Chet Are you using any lubricant "inside" of the case mouth? A squeek means something is dry. (Which you already know)

I use the imperial, I have tried the others and like the imperial the best expecially mixed on your fingers with a light oil like Rem oil.
 
yes. in fact, the loudest squeek came when I had the spindle completely removed!
 
Have you tried a new sized factory case in the die??? ONe last thought is your ram and the sizing die in line? I know that you have probably already tired all of this but I am trying to be s little help. This has got to be well beyond frustrating!!!!!!!!!!!!!
 
Have you tried a new sized factory case in the die???
Yes, a new case was what started it all.

is your ram and the sizing die in line?
yes, it's a dillon 550, and I have the tool to check alignment. Also sized some 300wm, 25-06, 270win, and 338wm just to see how they'd come out...... flawless.....

Don't be afraid to hurt my feelings!! I like (need) brain stimulation most of the time!

I'm stumped.... how do you wear out a die :shock:
 
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