Is 2790-2800 too slow for a formidable 3006 165 grain round
- Thread starter 338winmag
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DrMike
Ballistician
- Nov 8, 2006
- 37,502
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Put it in the boiler and it'll work just fine to drop an elk.
- Nov 4, 2004
- 25,459
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jmad_81":1zgvl5h0 said:
+1
JD338
Tobey284":29gjaf4b said:
That bullet at 2800 would probably work excellent, but I know a bonded or PT'ed bullet would work great. Sometimes it is worth working up a load with a practice type bullet and just seeing if a PT, AB, or whatever premium you choose shoots as well. It is good to have that kinda insurance on big elk! Scotty
Guy Miner
Master Loader
- Apr 6, 2006
- 17,836
- 6,312
My old .30-06 with a 21" barrel only churns up 2750 fps with a 165 grain bullet. I can push it harder, but it shoots real well at that speed. About the same speed my .308 Win develops with the same bullet weight.
I have no trouble target shooting at 300 yards with that load and last year my son took a dandy black bear with it. Am thinking a Nosler Partition or the AccuBond would give you the best 165 grain hunting bullet possible.
I have no trouble target shooting at 300 yards with that load and last year my son took a dandy black bear with it. Am thinking a Nosler Partition or the AccuBond would give you the best 165 grain hunting bullet possible.
Guy Miner":36qaw74w said:
Guy nailed it. I have become a believer in the mundaneness (if that is even a word) of a good bullet traveling at 2500-2800. The Whelen has made me realize it is pretty darned easy to shoot to 400 yards, even with a toe of a bullet (250gr PT) at 2650. I really have no qualms about that bullet doing amazing work at longer than average distances.
The AB-PT would make one awesome bullet you could depend on for everything. I like Hornady's a bunch, but the money we put into hunting a few dollars extra for some good bullets is money in the bank. You will never regret having too good a bullet. The opposite is not likely the case though. Scotty
6mm Remington
Ammo Smith
- Feb 27, 2006
- 5,271
- 693
You would not believe how many 30-06 165 combos with 22 " barrels never make 2800 fps! Most I have chrono'd were 2780 range and I could easily get 2725 with the 180 grainers--- to me it made more sense to use the 180's! Now 150's usually run 2900- 3000 + in a 22" barrel for me and for deer only is a great choice. That all being said, my grandson's favorite load is the 165 AB for elk and 165 BT for deer, both with 58 grains of IMR4350. If it shoots a nice tight group and is comfortable just shoot the load and don't worry about the f.p.s.! A buddy of mine used the 165 gr load for years and when asked what the speed was, he replied "about 2900", I chrono'd it at 2590! He had killed everything he shot at with it up to that point, but that ruined it for him. Just think about all those deer and elk that were underkilled for years before the chrono!
Scott Spencer
Handloader
- Mar 27, 2008
- 525
- 0
I killed my one and only elk (6x6 in CO) with a 30-06 and 180AB shooting right around 2695 +/-.
- Thread starter
- #13
Super great comments. This load is for someone else that might not be able to afford much more but .... I think I might pitch in and assist with defraying some costs and testing some ABs and PTs.
Yeah the chrony is a great tool and obviously from this thread title, I can get that insecure feeling of "is it fast enough" thinking.
I believe everyone's comments is helping me to get out of the "Hi my name is Steve and I am a speedaholic".
The chrony also helps me to see the possible issue when a bullet goes outside a tight group and I see the ES of 45 FPS or greater.
In addition it has also helped me not graduate too fast up the ladder of powder charges. With a few rifles I am not even close to maximum charges, yet reaching the FPS the same as a maximum charge. My son just got a new Chrono so we wil be comparing here soon to see if they are close to speed estimates of each other.
Yeah the chrony is a great tool and obviously from this thread title, I can get that insecure feeling of "is it fast enough" thinking.
I believe everyone's comments is helping me to get out of the "Hi my name is Steve and I am a speedaholic".The chrony also helps me to see the possible issue when a bullet goes outside a tight group and I see the ES of 45 FPS or greater.
In addition it has also helped me not graduate too fast up the ladder of powder charges. With a few rifles I am not even close to maximum charges, yet reaching the FPS the same as a maximum charge. My son just got a new Chrono so we wil be comparing here soon to see if they are close to speed estimates of each other.
Bottom line is: If you really have to have the speed get a 300 UltraMag and suffer the muzzle blast and recoil, barrel wear, ect! If you want a reasonable load that works use the ought-6. I have and use them all, but I started my grandson out on an -06 and he killed his first bull (5 point) and first buck (forked horn) just fine. He loves the rifle I bought for him and I would buy him the same gun over again! I let him shoot my 300 WM with 200 grainers last week and it gave him a good scope ring on his nose--he likes his -06 even more now!
Ridge_Runner
Handloader
- Sep 29, 2006
- 1,390
- 741
at 2800 fps, save the difference in price and shoot a BT, you'll get the same or better results. you don't need a premieum bullet with impact velocities at below 3K.
RR
RR
I have taken Mule Deer out to 250 yards with a .308 Win. and the 165 gr. Speer Hot Core at a whole rip snortin' 2550 FPS from a Ruger M77 RSI with 18.5" barrel. I would not hesitate using that same load on elk, should the opportunity arise.
Frankly, and this is just my personal opinion, if you're going to use conventional cup and core bullets for deer and elk, then go with the 180 gr. bullets. I've had great luck with the Sierra Pro-hutner some say the Hornady Spire Point will hold together a bit better. If you velocity is going to be 2800 FPS or less at the muzzle, then I see no need for a pricey premium bullet other than it might make you feel better. Mule Deer aren't all that hard to kill. The shed their Kevlar just before the hunting season. :lol: Elk on the other hand are pretty tough critters and unless hit right the first time, can lead you on a merry chase over hill and dale and those hills and dales at high altitude will do a number on you. That's why my minimum for elk these days is either my .35 Whelen or my .300 Win. mag., depending on where I plan to hunt.
If you plan to stick with 165 gr. bullets then I'd look at the AccuBond or Partition at least for elk. My pet loads for the 30-06 use the 180 gr. Sierra Pro-hunter for deer and the 180 gr. Nosler Partition for elk and bigger. it took a while but I have both bullets loaded up to where they both stay close enough together to be useful at 300 yards.
Paul B.
Frankly, and this is just my personal opinion, if you're going to use conventional cup and core bullets for deer and elk, then go with the 180 gr. bullets. I've had great luck with the Sierra Pro-hutner some say the Hornady Spire Point will hold together a bit better. If you velocity is going to be 2800 FPS or less at the muzzle, then I see no need for a pricey premium bullet other than it might make you feel better. Mule Deer aren't all that hard to kill. The shed their Kevlar just before the hunting season. :lol: Elk on the other hand are pretty tough critters and unless hit right the first time, can lead you on a merry chase over hill and dale and those hills and dales at high altitude will do a number on you. That's why my minimum for elk these days is either my .35 Whelen or my .300 Win. mag., depending on where I plan to hunt.
If you plan to stick with 165 gr. bullets then I'd look at the AccuBond or Partition at least for elk. My pet loads for the 30-06 use the 180 gr. Sierra Pro-hunter for deer and the 180 gr. Nosler Partition for elk and bigger. it took a while but I have both bullets loaded up to where they both stay close enough together to be useful at 300 yards.
Paul B.
Antelope_Sniper
Handloader
- Jan 25, 2008
- 2,618
- 0
Anything under 180gr will just bounce off the hide of an Elk.
Might want to consider the 180gr BT.
Might want to consider the 180gr BT.
IMHO the beauty of the '06 is that it doesn't push bullets, so you can run "standards" and get premium results.
I always figure that premiums (and ultra-ubber premiums for that matter) were invented (read John Nosler's story of the invention of the NPt) were a result of the speeds accomplished by our velocity-obsessed modern age. "Step back" to a "relic" like the '-06 and you don't need partitions, bonding, etc.
Of course if those things inspire confidence that is certainly not a bad thing, either and can only be good. They're just not necessary because the projectile won't be stressed like a faster cartridge would.
I always figure that premiums (and ultra-ubber premiums for that matter) were invented (read John Nosler's story of the invention of the NPt) were a result of the speeds accomplished by our velocity-obsessed modern age. "Step back" to a "relic" like the '-06 and you don't need partitions, bonding, etc.
Of course if those things inspire confidence that is certainly not a bad thing, either and can only be good. They're just not necessary because the projectile won't be stressed like a faster cartridge would.
- Oct 30, 2004
- 24,386
- 3,292
Not at all! 2800 fps is great imho............
